[Discussion] The tax tax tax thread

The state of US tax code and upcoming proposed changes.

Of course he will. They all will. Republicans are never going to vote against corporate and wealthy tax cuts. This is going to pass along party lines, and before Jones can get seated. Because that's how we govern now.

Chaz wrote:

Of course he will. They all will. Republicans are never going to vote against corporate and wealthy tax cuts. This is going to pass along party lines, and before Jones can get seated. Because that's how we govern now.

But not how McConnell wanted to govern when a Dem seat was going to a Repub seat before the Obamacare vote. McConnell: Literally the biggest shithead possible.

Demosthenes wrote:
Chaz wrote:

Of course he will. They all will. Republicans are never going to vote against corporate and wealthy tax cuts. This is going to pass along party lines, and before Jones can get seated. Because that's how we govern now.

But not how McConnell wanted to govern when a Dem seat was going to a Repub seat before the Obamacare vote. McConnell: Literally the biggest shithead possible.

Usually the (R) after their names tips you off.

Docjoe wrote:

So this is probably going to result in a substantial boost in my take home income. Which I frankly don't really need since we have been doing just fine.

But our nurses who are paid an hourly wage won't get this benefit so it is going to be a huge tax cut for those in our company who need it least.

Please take this question in the spirit of genuine curiosity if which it is offered. I promise, it is not an attack or troll.

Putting this in the succinctest possible terms, you say you don't need an income boost. Why wouldn't you increase your nurses' pay instead? Isn't that what the supporters of this bill say you job creators will do with the cut?

Thanks.

Just found out that a commuter benefit is getting cut in the final bill. My company uses this benefit to provide commuter passes free to all employees. Now, they're going to have to decide if they're willing to continue doing that without the tax write off, or if they're going to cut the benefit. If they decide they have to cut it, I'm out $4k/year just to get to work. I'm willing to bet that more than offsets any tax savings I'll get. Way to go, GOP!

Grumpicus wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

So this is probably going to result in a substantial boost in my take home income. Which I frankly don't really need since we have been doing just fine.

But our nurses who are paid an hourly wage won't get this benefit so it is going to be a huge tax cut for those in our company who need it least.

Please take this question in the spirit of genuine curiosity if which it is offered. I promise, it is not an attack or troll.

Putting this in the succinctest possible terms, you say you don't need an income boost. Why wouldn't you increase your nurses pay instead? Isn't that what the supporters of this bill say you job creators will do with the cut?

Thanks.

That’s a really good question and I was thinking the same thing. In general, the members of the committee that makes the business decisions are pretty solidly in Trumpland from a fiscal standpoint. They will pay what the market requires to not lose staff and not more. So yeah, not sure the trickle down effect is going to work but I guess we’ll see.

Trickle down is just code for f*ck you working class people.

Docjoe wrote:

not sure the trickle down effect is going to work but I guess we’ll see.

It hasn't for 35 years, no reason it would start now.

I can't remember where i heard this particular quote and i'm paraphrasing but its always rung true to me: "The idea that the best way to help those who must survive on table scraps is to pile more food on the table is ridiculous"

Chaz wrote:

Just found out that a commuter benefit is getting cut in the final bill. My company uses this benefit to provide commuter passes free to all employees. Now, they're going to have to decide if they're willing to continue doing that without the tax write off, or if they're going to cut the benefit. If they decide they have to cut it, I'm out $4k/year just to get to work. I'm willing to bet that more than offsets any tax savings I'll get. Way to go, GOP!

I can’t remember where I saw the quote but some GOP rep said something to the effect of wishing he could destroy public transportation so people would be forced to buy more cars.

Reaper81 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

Just found out that a commuter benefit is getting cut in the final bill. My company uses this benefit to provide commuter passes free to all employees. Now, they're going to have to decide if they're willing to continue doing that without the tax write off, or if they're going to cut the benefit. If they decide they have to cut it, I'm out $4k/year just to get to work. I'm willing to bet that more than offsets any tax savings I'll get. Way to go, GOP!

I can’t remember where I saw the quote but some GOP rep said something to the effect of wishing he could destroy public transportation so people would be forced to buy more cars.

They're basically cartoon villains. I own a car. I could drive in to work. That would mean that instead of having three hours a day to read or game or something on the bus, I'd have to spend it just sitting in traffic, fuming. I'd also have to spend $25-30 a day on parking. Eliminating public transit wouldn't do anything to make people buy more cars, it'd just make life worse for people who live and work in cities. But then again, that seems to be their modus operandi.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Republicans have achieved a truly rare state of political nirvana: they can lie, with smirks on their faces, and their base either don't realize it or don't care. It's the result of years of the fringe right spreading propaganda about the mainstream media, playing up honest MSM mistakes while never acknowledging their own mistakes or lies.

...

Politicians have always lied. What we have now is a party that has actually codified a policy of flat dishonesty. And they still have the support of people furious over a black president and the prospects of a woman president.

We’re witnessing the wholesale looting of America: Unchecked by norms or political prudence, it’s smash-and-grab time for the GOP.

Politicians have never been renowned for their honesty and have always liked to spin their policies in the most positive light possible. But not only does Trump lie a lot more than his predecessors — a New York Times analysis found six times as many lies in Trump’s first 10 months in office as across Obama’s eight years — but the Trump-era GOP has grown terrifyingly comfortable with a kind of large-scale misrepresentation of what their legislation says that’s totally unprecedented.

...

Not every member of the party was as brazen as that. But Trump and Ryan have completely dissolved the norm against dishonesty to the point where there are no longer any whistleblowers in the Republican caucus or the world of conservative media. You just say whatever you want, and dole out favors to your friends — moving at such a rapid pace that the country’s ability to process what’s happening gets overwhelmed.

Good piece. I like this quote at the end the most.

Trump’s victory, rather than inspiring a bipartisan movement to check the new president’s worst impulses, caused the party to snap, with as many factions as possible reaching to toss a rock and grab what they can as long as the party lasts.

The country is left only to hope that it doesn’t last too long.

The party is completely broken and unmoored morally. They won't save the country, so trying to include Republicans in the solution is foolish. They can signal their willingness to help or we can assume they're part of the problem.

Remember your institutional racism style guide everyone. The Republicans aren't looting the country, they are scavenging the country.

Yonder wrote:

Remember your institutional racism style guide everyone. The Republicans aren't looting the country, they are scavenging the country.

I'm disappointed I didn't think to make this joke. One like is not enough.

Just passed the House. At least a few Republicans from blue states managed to vote against it.

Oh, hey, Pete King's not the worst Republican with the last name King in the House. Way to clear that very low bar Pete! I hope you're collecting unemployment soon, you Trumpcare voting, islamophobic, IRA supporting, A**hat.

Chaz wrote:

Just passed the House. At least a few Republicans from blue states managed to vote against it.

And they screwed up the rules again (some of the House-passed details trigger the Byrd rule 60-vote requirement) so it looks like that after the Senate votes the House will need to re-vote again.

CBS: House must revote on approved final GOP tax bill, fearing Byrd Rule objections

Gremlin wrote:
Chaz wrote:

Just passed the House. At least a few Republicans from blue states managed to vote against it.

And they screwed up the rules again (some of the House-passed details trigger the Byrd rule 60-vote requirement) so it looks like that after the Senate votes the House will need to re-vote again.

CBS: House must revote on approved final GOP tax bill, fearing Byrd Rule objections

You stupid shitbags. These guys are like the legislative Wet Bandits.

Does this mean the the bill can be fillerbusted in the Senate then?

WizKid wrote:

Does this mean the the bill can be fillerbusted in the Senate then?

They're going to strip those provisions from the Senate version, pass it, then re vote on it in the House tomorrow. It won't stop them, it just makes them look dumb. Because they are.

Chaz wrote:
WizKid wrote:

Does this mean the the bill can be fillerbusted in the Senate then?

They're going to strip those provisions from the Senate version, pass it, then re vote on it in the House tomorrow. It won't stop them, it just makes them look dumb. Because they are.

Turns out when you spend 6 years doing nothing but blocking everything and doing jack squat on trying to create or pass legislation beyond "Obamacare is thw orst, destroy it!" you lose your ability to write at least coherent legislation. Who knew?

Republican Tax Bill Passes Senate in 51-48 Vote

The endeavor was not without hiccups, however, as three small provisions in the final tax bill agreed to by the House and Senate were found by the Senate parliamentarian to violate the budget rules that Republicans must follow to pass their bill through a process that shields it from a Democratic filibuster. As a result, the bill changed slightly in the Senate, and the House will now need to vote on it again since both chambers must approve identical legislation. Among the items that were deemed out of order was the title of the bill: the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

An overlooked aspect of this bill. Republicans basically just issued a challenge. If you can convert the majority of your income from wages to investments in the next 10 years you’ll be a winner under the tax law.

They’re literally begging people who earn an honest living to convert mostly to rentiers.

Absolutely. Everyone reporting on this plan should be inserting the word "temporary" every time they say tax cuts, because they are temporary for the overwhelming majority. Especially for the lower and middle classes. Repeat after me, CNN, "temporary middle-class tax cuts."

If you are currently itemizing and will not be (or are close to the line for 2018) it may be a good idea to talk to your tax adviser about bunching your charitable deductions every other year. Also, if you will not be even close to itemizing next year (due to the higher standard deduction), it is a good idea to prepay any state tax you may owe for 2017 before year end. As long as this will not push you into AMT, it will provide you with tangible benefits for this in-between year. If your tax adviser has not contacted you about this, it may be time to shop around for a new one.

There are people who are going to immediately feel the effects of this well before the temporary cuts expire. Mostly the self employed, and business owners who are not organized as pass-through. Everyone else has just been passed a briefcase and told not to mind the ticking noise that it is making.

I suspect that the biggest winners here will be tax preparers and financial advisor people.

Chaz wrote:

I suspect that the biggest winners here will be tax preparers and financial advisor people.

This is just anecdotal evidence from my own experience working at a small firm, but I don't see how tax code that will most likely do long term harm to some of our hardest working clients makes us winners.

Most of us take fiduciary responsibilities very seriously, and this is all very frustrating.

Apologies if that was not directed at me.

Beuks33 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I suspect that the biggest winners here will be tax preparers and financial advisor people.

This is just anecdotal evidence from my own experience working at a small firm, but I don't see how tax code that will most likely do long term harm to some of our hardest working clients makes us winners.

Most of us take fiduciary responsibilities very seriously, and this is all very frustrating.

Apologies if that was not directed at me.

I just meant that tax folks are gonna be really busy deciphering all this, and then setting everyone up ass pass through businesses or whatever it is to get the super low rich person job creator rates. I wasn't implying that you or other tax folks were going to try and scam anyone.