Nintendo Switch Catch-All 2.0

Does Metroid really need a plotline outside of "explore new planet(s)"? They can even keep and ignore the stuff they came up with previously and the game would be just fine.

I am of mixed feelings regarding Metroid and continuity. At this stage, if they wanted to hit the "reset" button, I think that would be a totally viable option. On the other hand, I really liked the world building that developed in Echoes, and despite Samus' status as a silent protagonist in most of these instances I feel like there's room to explore her in fascinating ways. Both the SA-X and Dark Samus kind of represent Samus stripped of humanity and turned into war machines, and with the write people you can do something interesting with it.

...I mean, they haven't, and given Nintendo's style of development I don't think they could or would, but... just sayin'...

That said, I do think the greatest problem is the constant reliance on the Metroid species being at the core of everything. Again, the Prime series did a good job about making it more about Phazon and the Metroid Prime creature in the form of Dark Samus, and Samus being witness and hero to the goings-on of the galaxy seems perfect, but I feel like no one can get rid of the Metroid creature which, despite being titular to the franchise, has never been the actual core of it.

That said, if they decide to effectively undo Return of Samus/Samus Returns with Metroid clones developing a sudden new repopulation just so you can justify their existence, alright, fine, whatever. But I really like the setting as established in the Prime games (awful writing in Corruption notwithstanding), and would love to see more of it explored, even if primarily through scanned logs in abandoned outposts and ruined worlds.

In what way has story ever been detrimental to game play in the Metroid series?

jrralls wrote:

In what way has story ever been detrimental to game play in the Metroid series?

In what way has story ever been a benefit to gameplay in the Metroid series?

Woah, I didn't realize that was coming to Switch. I am super interested in having a game like that on the go.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
jrralls wrote:

In what way has story ever been detrimental to game play in the Metroid series?

In what way has story ever been a benefit to gameplay in the Metroid series?

Depends on how you mean. Reading scan-logs about how the space pirates were canceling their experiments replicating Samus' morph ball after the last test subject became mangled was always a delight for me. Still, that's technically world-building. The more "traditional" story in a Metroid has gotten, the worse it's been executed. But this is largely because Nintendo doesn't care much about story anyway. I mean, RPG's are a genre known for narrative and yet Fire Emblem has some atrocious writing.

I guess it's not so much "story" so much as "knowing how and what kind of stories to tell".

I guess I should rephrase: In what way has a continuous, canonical story ever been a benefit to gameplay in the Metroid series?

For me, I'll say that such a thing has been a detriment to gameplay, because of all the saggy-baggy cutscenes and story breaks required to explain why and how Samus has yet again ended up on a maze of a planet fighting bubbles with teeth. Kindly skip over all of that and just bring on the bubbles.

I agree, atmosphere is way more important than story in Metroid.

How is Mario Odyssey in handheld mode? Like how well can you see what you're doing? I'm about to go on vacation and I'm thinking of taking my Switch because Mario is the game I most want to play. I've only really played it on the TV and outside of looking at it for ten minutes here or there, so I haven't gotten a sense yet for how that will hold up over longer play periods.

I played the entirety of Mario Odyssey in handheld mode, and it's just fine. It looks more or less exactly like it does on TV, and the UI is appropriately-sized to not be squinty.

I played about 40% of the time in handheld mode. I can't remember having any issues aside certain optional motion controls being more difficult to pull off.

Dyni wrote:

I played about 40% of the time in handheld mode. I can't remember having any issues aside certain optional motion controls being more difficult to pull off.

This

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I still maintain (and will continue to maintain) that the best thing that could happen to the Metroid series is if they took the canonical story and threw it in a bin. Just start the damn thing over every time like they (effectively) do with the Zelda games.

Samus needs to die.

Seriously. Samus Returns cemented for me a belief that the series is in dire need of a new protagonist with new mechanics in the movement and arsenal departments.

I suspect part of the reason we haven't seen a 2D sequel since Fusion is because the series is in a mechanical rut. Fusion was at least an attempt to shift enough of the rules to create a fresh experience instead of purely riffing on Super (something Returns was still unfortunately enough reverent of as to be grating at times). And Prime was 3D which brought enough fundamental changes just from the perspective change alone.

Samus must die for the good of the franchise. And hopefully Ridley goes with her because I am sick of fighting that stupid thing. In. Every. Single. Release.

shoptroll wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I still maintain (and will continue to maintain) that the best thing that could happen to the Metroid series is if they took the canonical story and threw it in a bin. Just start the damn thing over every time like they (effectively) do with the Zelda games.

Samus needs to die. There, I said it.

Seriously. Samus Returns cemented for me a belief that the series is in dire need of a new protagonist with new mechanics in the movement and arsenal departments.

I agree that the series is badly in need of new mechanics, but I don't think you need to get rid of Samus to make that happen. At least, not if they're able to treat Samus as a generic protagonist whose defining characteristic is getting stuck in mazes with toothy bubbles.

Well, except for the fans who would kick up a fuss online because "why wouldn't Samus use her super missles that I know she has because this game falls between Super Metroid and Metroid Valhalla on the timeline", and the ever popular, "this isn't a real Metroid game because Samus doesn't turn into a ball; Nintendo doesn't understand what makes Metroid great".

So yeah, let's not kill Samus. Let's kill Metroid fans.

I'm now confident that there will never be a perfect Metroid game because everyone wants and perceives something different out of the franchise as everyone else.

I don't think we've gotten "the best" Metroid, be it 3D or 2D, and I don't think we need to kill Samus to get it. I wouldn't mind a complete rethinking of her equipment, which we've never truly gotten, but I feel Breath of the Wild has a few lessons we can learn even if I don't want the actual world exploration of Metroid to see that sort of shake-up. Firstly, I'd say while Breath of the Wild's narrative interferes little with the game's mechanics, I do think Breath of the Wild is better for its story (but I can see where others would find it plain). They also kept a lot of traditional items and tools such as the boomerang, but the manner in which they were used was completely different from prior Zelda titles.

Then again, I'll confess that I feel like I don't have the Metroid game I could play for the rest of my life, and while there are plenty of indies that are heavily inspired by Super Metroid, I've yet to find one that scratches the itch like Metroid does. I really enjoy this franchise, but I feel like the best Metroid, 2D or 3D, doesn't yet exist. I know this doesn't matter for a lot of other folks, though, and I dunno how else to describe it. I guess it's kind of different from, say, Mega Man X. While I wouldn't mind a new game or playing the sequels, Mega Man X works so well as a package I don't really need any other Mega Man game. I'll play them, certainly, but Mega Man X just feels like it is the quintessential Mega Man.

There's no Metroid that feels that way to me, and I don't think we need to demolish continuity or kill Samus in order to get that.

At the same time, I've been discovering what I love about Metroid is very different than what others love, so the odds of me getting my Metroid are slim to none and I'd be better off learning how to make my own games.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

So yeah, let's not kill Samus. Let's kill Metroid fans.

Whelp, nice knowin' you all.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

So yeah, let's not kill Samus. Let's kill Metroid fans.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/Wh0XiKp.gif)

Pfft. Let Nintendo do it. All they'd need to do is release Metroid: Another Other M and then, POOF! No more Metroid fans.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Pfft. Let Nintendo do it. All they'd need to do is release Metroid: Another Other M and then, POOF! No more Metroid fans.

Because bad game after bad game killed off the Sonic the Hedgehog fans, right?

Taharka wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

Pfft. Let Nintendo do it. All they'd need to do is release Metroid: Another Other M and then, POOF! No more Metroid fans.

Because bad game after bad game killed off the Sonic the Hedgehog fans, right?

Great, now ccesarano is going to defend both Other M and all the bad Sonic games!

Only Sonic Forces.

I was actually able to beat that one.

The whole franchise can still burn in Hell for all I care.

ccesarano wrote:

I'm now confident that there will never be a perfect Metroid game because everyone wants and perceives something different out of the franchise as everyone else.

I don't think we've gotten "the best" Metroid, be it 3D or 2D,

You've been a great addition to this conversation Cc, but I'll be sure take it from here. *Ahem*

Best 2D Metroid: Super Metriod
Best 3D Metroid: Metroid Prime
Best Overall: Super Metroid

Next.

The Conformist wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

I'm now confident that there will never be a perfect Metroid game because everyone wants and perceives something different out of the franchise as everyone else.

I don't think we've gotten "the best" Metroid, be it 3D or 2D,

You've been a great addition to this conversation Cc, but I'll be sure take it from here. *Ahem*

Best 2D Metroid: Super Metriod
Best 3D Metroid: Metroid Prime
Best Overall: Super Metroid

Next.

Let's be honest. There are plenty of better 2D Metroid games than any of the actual Metroid games.

The Conformist wrote:

Best 2D Metroid: Super Metriod
Best 3D Metroid: Metroid Prime
Best Overall: Super Metroid

Wrecked Ship and Crashed Frigate onward would like to have a word with you.

Both of those games take a downward turn at those points. It really does become a toss-up and matter of preference, because I'd say Super Metroid's got the best map design despite the flaws in Wrecked Ship and Maridia, but the mechanics of Fusion and Zero Mission are so much better. Even so, that best map design is only due to the fact that games after were either remakes or more linear in some fashion, not because Super Metroid is without room for improvement. In terms of Prime, Echoes actually does a lot to improve upon Prime, but a few unfortunate snags also cause it to sort of stumble (most notably the keys, yes, but some other points as well).

So really, if either Super Metroid or Metroid Prime were objectively the best, well, to quote a webcomic whose name I cannot remember and which I cannot find: "My dad can beat up your dad." "My dad is dead." "Victory by default!"

Jonman wrote:

Let's be honest. There are plenty of better 2D Metroid games than any of the actual Metroid games.

I'm actually hoping to go back and replay Shadow Complex and do a first-time-through some other games like Guacamelee and Axiom Verge to see how they measure up now that I've played a bunch of Metroid games way too many times.

I'm not the biggest Metroid fan, and I wouldn't put any of Shadow Complex, Guacamelee, or Axiom Verge in the same league as Super Metroid.

Hah. I could talk Metroid for a good long while. Those games were such a huge part of my gaming growing up. And I completely agree with your statements Cc, Jon and Clock.

Here's a super embarrassing thing to admit.....Ive never played Shadow Complex :-/

At this point in time, is it worth grabbing?

No.

Next.

Jeez what a conversation. I think I've said enough in the Metroid threads.

Except apparently Clocky wants me dead.

Stele wrote:

Except apparently Clocky wants me dead. :(

I'm sure it's nothing personal. Nothing too personal. Maybe...