[Discussion] James Damore and the Google Manifesto

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The Manifesto Mr. Damore wrote, it's implications, facts, or opinions, the hostile work environment it creates, the action of Google firing him, and the consequences of all of the above.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Part of me thinks that the GOP is forever irritated that the only nations we have ever lost to in war are the ones run by communists.

Well, I can certainly verify that it occupies an unpleasantly large part of the conservative worldview I was exposed to while growing up. And contributes unhealthily to both Gulf wars as a way to exorcise the sting of past losses.

Bfgp wrote:

All the screenshots will probably be ruled inadmissible as evidence for the reason of breach of Damore's then contract of employment as to confidentiality. So he did it as a way of harming Google when he himself has little to lose. They are throwing low blows probably to get Google to pay them hush money. Google being what it is will probably bury them in legal fees. This isn't going to end well for Damore unless his far right sponsors find a way to dig him out of the future bankruptcy heading his way.

Likely, though they've already done the damage they were intended to do, I think.

Of course, given the number of times I've seen people crawl out of the woodwork to say they saw nothing wrong with the memo every time Damore gets mentioned elsewhere online, it'll just reinforce the beliefs of the people who were already in his corner. And given them new targets to go after.

Twitter reliably informs me that this passage is in the Damore lawsuit

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTKhaudVAAA8XEE.jpg)

DanB wrote:

Twitter reliably informs me that this passage is in the Damore lawsuit

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTKhaudVAAA8XEE.jpg)

The sad thing is I can't tell if this started as a joke or not.

He really needs to get the last word in, apparently.

If he wins he'll use the money to pay a sky writer to write "Well, actually" above the campus every day.

Gremlin wrote:
DanB wrote:

Twitter reliably informs me that this passage is in the Damore lawsuit

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTKhaudVAAA8XEE.jpg)

The sad thing is I can't tell if this started as a joke or not.

I know, right. Women being capable of logical debates? Whatever next?

/ sarcasm

No debates needed for the majority employees - White Males - because they all agree with him, he seems to believe...

I honestly couldn't tell if that passage from the lawsuit was a joke or not but now I've seen this:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRT7U1ZV4AAb1NO.jpg)

DanB wrote:

I honestly couldn't tell if that passage from the lawsuit was a joke or not but now I've seen this:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRT7U1ZV4AAb1NO.jpg)

no holds barred, so I expect Damore to go down in a choke hold in round 1

Chairman_Mao wrote:

no holds barred, so I expect Damore to go down in a choke hold in round 1

I’m not super familiar with Boghossian but what I have seen of him over the years implies that he probably won’t be arguing with Damore so much as cheerleading him.

ruhk wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

no holds barred, so I expect Damore to go down in a choke hold in round 1

I’m not super familiar with Boghossian but what I have seen of him over the years implies that he probably won’t be arguing with Damore so much as cheerleading him.

Maybe it will be a bdsm choke hold then...

I would guess it's going to be a long discussion about Old Wooden Ships right?

Part 2 of the series is titled

Damore a frank discussion on growing up black in America

DanB wrote:

Twitter reliably informs me that this passage is in the Damore lawsuit

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTKhaudVAAA8XEE.jpg)

He is literally going to court to demand a Safe Space.

Irony is dead.

It's so sad that people like this believe that they're rebellious thinkers.

Maq wrote:

He is literally going to court to demand a Safe Space.

Irony is dead.

Looking at the actual filing, I don't see that passage anywhere. It's in the wrong format, too. There's plenty of other dubious things, but nothing that as easy-to-screenshot, and plenty that's either toxic or repeating Damore's very biased interpretation of events.

As someone who has previously identified as conservative1, it disgusts me that conservative thinking is now infested with people who think that this is some kind of defense.

Spoiler:

1. And I might do so again...if, you know, I could find a conservative position that isn't racist, sexist, transphobic, ableist, economically exploitive, eugenicist, and pro-Nazi. Which we've apparently run out of, so I'm not at all conservative these days.

Gremlin wrote:

As someone who has previously identified as conservative1, it disgusts me that conservative thinking is now infested with people who think that this is some kind of defense.

Spoiler:

1. And I might do so again...if, you know, I could find a conservative position that isn't racist, sexist, transphobic, ableist, economically exploitive, eugenicist, and pro-Nazi. Which we've apparently run out of, so I'm not at all conservative these days.

Spoiler:

This is the trend I predicted when the Tea Party began the process of unraveling the Republican Party. We will remain a two party system, because that's the result of our election laws, but as the Republican Party dies, the Democrats will become the conservative party, and the Bernie Sanders Wing may actually start a new liberal party.

It's going to to take a long while to shake out, but that seems to be the way we are headed right now. The Democrats may move farther right, but nowhere near the non-reality based version conservatism that Republicans are beginning to represent now.

Just a personal note: I know people who work at google, and more than one of them have recently looked into retaining legal counsel because Damore's filing doxxes them and they want to know if there's anything they can do about that and how to protect themselves. :l

ETA: Of course, it obscures the details about anybody that agrees with him. It just exposes personal info about "snowflakes". :l

Given the sheer size of google and assuming liberal/PC tendencies of the population as a whole, I wouldn't be surprised if he found questionable remarks, but that's not enough is it? ...
Looking at some of the screenshots, I find most of them just people expressing their political opinions, which I find a weird thing to do at work, but also implies his problem being that people disagree with him, which like, tough sh*t, Damore.

On the nazi-punching meme, I couldn't find it, but that could be spinned fairly easily possibly. Specifically because conservatives are known for using coded language and this might be argued as an example of this from the left.

Eleima says it well,

Eleima wrote:

I literally just exclaimed "are you effing kidding me?"

MEanwhile, if you were wondering how things are going at Google itself....

Google Has Become Ground Zero For The Culture Wars

The controversy surrounding Google engineer James Damore, who became a cult hero on the right after he published a 10-page manifesto questioning the value of diversity in the workplace, does not appear to have ended with his firing. In the intervening months, it has leaked into Google’s own headquarters, reportedly turning the company’s office space into ground zero for the culture wars.

Google employees who see themselves as advocates for diversity tell Wired that a small group of their co-workers is leading a targeted harassment campaign against them. Their tactics allegedly include “weaponiz[ing] human resources” by goading diverse members of Google’s team into making inflammatory statements, and reporting those statements as violations of the company’s rules around civility. The result, they say, is that internal discussions around diversity and inclusion are stifled, with proponents afraid to speak up.

Pro-diversity employees say that their messages on internal Google forums have also been photographed and shared outside the company, leading to their publication on far-right platforms like Vox Popoli and Breitbart. (Some screenshots were also included in the lawsuit Damore filed this month, which alleges that Google discriminates against conservatives, white people, and men.) Each time their comments are posted, Google employees said, they experience a “wave of harassment” on forums like 4chan and Kiwi Farms, a community that reportedly specializes in targeting those they deem “ill or sexually deviant.” At least three Googlers have reportedly had their personal information posted to such sites, whose users regularly employ violent threats.

It’s somewhat ironic that a major tech company tasked with monitoring threats and hate speech online seems unable to regulate its own workplace. Google says it has met with every employee who expressed concern, and staffers say the company has been vigilant about addressing direct threats. But Yonatan Zunger, a high-ranking engineer who recently left the company, told Wired that managers often respond to conflict by telling everyone to “knock it off”—an attempt at neutrality that mirrors Google’s approach to regulating online content, and that only exacerbates the problem. Zunger said Google has fostered a “paradox of tolerance”—its unlimited tolerance, in other words, has lead to its destruction by the intolerant.

The debate may have remained low stakes, if not for the nature of the Internet itself. Years ago, Damore sympathizers’ only recourse may have been water-cooler gossip, or passive-aggressive Post-it notes. But now, anti-diversity employees talk behind their co-workers’ backs to a potential audience of billions, playing into attitudes that thrive online. As Russia’s polarizing online campaign to elect Donald Trump demonstrates, the Internet is primed to amplify hate.

Once the birthplace of the fight against workplace sexual harassment, Silicon Valley has become fertile ground for the inevitable backlash led by far-right agitators. Along with Damore’s suit, alt-right troll Chuck Johnson recently made a feeble attempt to sue Twitter (Johnson was kicked off the platform in 2015 after he tweeted that he wanted to “take out” civil-rights activist DeRay McKesson), and earlier this month James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas published a controversial video of Twitter employees discussing the company’s moderation policies, which O’Keefe implied are designed to quash conservatives.

Though their attacks have so far yielded few results, they’re symptomatic of America’s increasing polarization, for which there is no easy solution. The only way to tamp down on hate is to teach empathy—there’s no totalitarian method to screen intent or to censor speech that doesn’t infringe on other civil rights. It’s a dilemma that’s baked into our constitution and our nation’s fiber, and one that’s only solvable through engagement. “A lot of this is about stoking complex thought,” Aneeta Rattan, an expert on organizational behavior, told Wired of the turmoil at Google. “That is not something all organizations want to foster.”

Yup. I personally know people whose internal discussion messages have been shared around like that. :l It's not a good time to be at google. (And my desire to work there has greatly diminished.)

Frankly, I do not expect that engagement will lead Nazis to change or moderate their views. Not even a war could do that.

War and a lot of propaganda did drive the message underground for a bit.

Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

Google’s firing of an engineer over his controversial memo criticizing its diversity policies and “politically correct monoculture” didn’t violate U.S. labor law, a federal agency lawyer concluded.

Statements in James Damore’s 3,000-word memo “regarding biological differences between the sexes were so harmful, discriminatory, and disruptive” that they fell outside protections for collective action in the workplace, an associate general counsel for the National Labor Relations Board wrote in a six-page memo disclosed Thursday.

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