LOGistICAL - Sublime Logistical Strategy Puzzling

But... That would be spoilering the game... there are also many things I have not see or done. I'm still at the beginning stages of the game.

Ask questions, though.

Robear wrote:

But... That would be spoilering the game... there are also many things I have not see or done. I'm still at the beginning stages of the game.

Ask questions, though.

How did you become such a logistics god?

I have no idea whether that is a serious question, given the way I'm wired lol. But I will say that I'm *almost* at 500 towns completed (I hope to get there today). And there are 50,000 towns in the game.

50,000. I am nowhere *near* a "god" at this game. Which is why I was hoping someone else was taking the trip alongside me. But then, the Logistical Discord is an awesome road to walk with others doing the same thing.

It's a strange game, mechanically. You have to think a bit sideways at times. There are so many towns and businesses and mailboxes and museums and such that you have to learn how to find the opportunities that will move you ahead, however you do that. But it is deeply involving and dear lord, how much I need that mental distraction these days. I look forward to months more hiding in the game, at a time when most of us need that kind of mental oblivion for a few hours now and then.

507 towns! And I see the easy cheevs slowly going away... I need to step up my game. But I hit my weekend goal!

I picked this up yesterday and played for a bit last night. Lots I don't understand well yet, but a few things started to click. I can definitely feel the strong puzzle-solving gameplay, really fun to start to figure out how to get businesses rolling and how to supply needs and unlock stuff.

Having said that the interface and in-game support are ... lacking at best. So much time spent trying to figure out why I couldn't get my truck to move again, or how to cancel a route, or how to manage the zoom levels to accomplish things quickly. The interface seems half-functional, information is all over the place, and there's little hand-holding beyond the very basics to get you started.

I totally get where you are coming from, GB, but it's early days yet. This is the place to start learning.

The interface is extremely useful once you understand all the elements. It enables the ability to load and move vehicles quickly and efficiently. Just keep exploring and trying out the elements. You'll get it down.

The in-game information is in the lower right side of the window. It's got the road capacities and basic functions. I've mentioned some subtleties earlier, too.

One thing that may not seem useful at first is the ability to group trucks together. Shift/Ctrl left click will group trucks so that they will all do the same thing. This is great for saving time and clicks when you need to put a lot of trucks onto a job.

Definitely learn what the two dials on the speedometer do. The little green light is very important. Turn it on, and every bit of stuff in the truck will drop at the next stop. Keep it off, and whatever is left over will still be in the vehicle. And the circular arrow is the "repeat task" button. Turn it on to repeat, turn it off to just run the route once.

This means that when you want to do a bunch of mailboxes or museums in sequence, you turn the "dump all" light off and just drag it from place to place until it runs dry, then pull from the source again to the next location, and repeat. But if you need to feed a production or storage site, you can overload it (one time per truck ordered there *before* it fills) by turning the "dump all" light on. This is *extremely* useful if you are moving goods from one place to another while waiting for a production or storage site to upgrade. Once the site turns red, though, you can't add to it until you expand it or draw down stock below capacity.

If you change the status of a vehicle while paused, it may not update until you run the mouse over it.

If you have other questions, just let me know.

Thanks Robear, much helpful!

I played another half hour and a few more basics sorted themselves out. I just realized how to buy a second truck, so that's the level I'm at. I think I've got 10 towns and 20 businesses done at this point.

I had figured out the one-shot/repeat and dump all/don't dump all things, but that's helpful about mousing over the truck. I've pressed the buttons a number of times but not had the truck's status change.

Random things I wonder...

- You can "build" industries, too, and cargo storage areas?

- Town seem to be consuming supplies as I deliver them, so I take it that for some of these larger towns I'll need several trucks delivering large amounts of goods to "complete" them? Once completed, can they consume goods and become "undone" and I need to do them again?

- I think there is an option to make roads upgradeable, but it appears to be turned off by default. Should I turn that on?

I added a bit above, read that.

It's not mousing over the truck, it's the truck's line in the left-hand list.

When you look at the speedometer, the circle in the lower right lets you cancel a load, sell the truck, or park it. Canceling will cost you something like 1000 per ton loaded (nothing if the truck has not picked up yet), and parking is a flat fee I think, set by the region.) You can also reassign a truck in motion by selecting it and moving it's icon to a new location.

The circle in the lower left shows you a pie chart of how much it's carrying, with the load capacity given (like "8t" or "40t"). It'll show loading and unloading, and clicking it turns the power on and off (ie, starts and stops the truck), which can be useful for timing coordination.

Towns consume goods in proportion to their population size. A town of 1000 will consume slowly; a town of 50,000 will consume much faster, and so forth. The first half of capacity of town will degrade at a fast rate, that shows as a red fill indicator. When you cross half full, the line turns yellow and the consumption rate drops noticeable. When you hit about 90%, it turns green, and you have filled that good. If you have other goods to fill, it will degrade even more slowly, but could go back into the yellow and eventually red if you can't fill all of the goods quickly enough. This is one of the puzzle challenges; what techniques are needed to fill towns quickly enough to finish them with the goods on hand?

Once you successfully fill all the goods in a town so they are all green at the same time, you never need to do that town again, and you get a chunk of cash proportional to the population.

You only need to upgrade roads if you can't travel across them (at least until you understand other uses for the upgrades). It's keyed to the "b" key. Use it only if you need; it's a toggle and the upgrade icons function like the roadblocks do. Hit b, select the end point to upgrade, then hit b again and it'll be on the map like a roadblock to fill.

As you fill places, towns or mailboxes/businesses/museums/photography locations/etc, you will find that the last truck in will often get a bonus to road speed or loading/dumping speed. (Small places often have turck bonuses attached, btw.) These bonuses are tied to the mileage the truck runs, but over time, they will become effectively permanent. Keep this in mind when thinking of replacing one truck with a bigger one. You'll lose the bonus a truck has when you sell it. Max speed bonus for vehicles is 6x; not sure what the max loading bonus is but it's fast lol. Loading bonuses are important for completing larger towns (and large is relative to your progress); speed bonuses reduce the time it takes to get from one place to another and so have interesting effects when you're working with scarce goods. (These are vehicle speed bonuses; game speed affects all vehicles as well as town consumption and is an ease-of-play adjustment as you get more done and start working with larger numbers.)

When you upgrade a blue town, it will turn bright yellow and have an icon in its description with a number in it (usually 0-4 or so, based I think on increments of 5000 population). That number is the number of storage depots or industries you can build there. (Note that above that you'll see train and truck icons, which provide useful info in their own ways, mouse over them.) You can build a storage depot for any good you have discovered at a nominal cost.

Industries follow the "2/8" rule. In order to build an industry, you have to have gotten one "in the wild" to level 3 by upgrading it. (An industry is ready to upgrade when it shows an icon of a good in the center part of its production change, with a number that shows quantity needed. Often the first upgrade is wood, then steel.) Then, in most areas of the world, you have to unlock two production sites for it in a region, then 8 consumers of the good (not sure if that's industries or not). What happens is, you click on the town, then click on the yellow number in the upper right, then the list of industries you can possibly build there appears. But if there's a padlock on it, mouse over the top and bottom numbers to see what you have to do to open it for building. It can take quite a while. Hint - some regions have relaxed rules on building new ones. Also, some goods that are geographically sourced can't be built on demand, like oil wells or iron ore mines. You will build some industries as needed strategically, but you'll definitely use a lot of depots. (Regions are, for example... Australia; New Zealand; South Korea/Japan; North Korea; Russia; and so forth.)

You will notice that ports are around, but they are closed until you feed them what they need. They don't have populations so you can take your time. Once opened, they offer a boatload of storage depot slabs, and you can feed a port from either land or sea, so once you open one port, you can buy a ship and explore the world to find other ports that you have discovered all the goods for, then open those up to start new areas.

You can add "floaties" to trucks to simulate what I call "ferry passes". You run a vehicle back to the truck purchase point, then click on the purchase list to refresh it. If Floaties are available in your region, you pay by the ton to add them to the truck. From that point on, that truck can travel slowly across the water on ferry routes (ie, single connections between two sites, not multiples ones like ships use). There are also "Ocean Floaties, that are more expensive. They allow you to move a truck into a port, then a "load" button appears at the bottom of the speedometer. You click that and the truck is virtually loaded onto a ship, which you can direct to another port, and reverse the process to unload. This is useful in certain circumstances. But it's much more expensive than regular floaties (the two can coexist). You don't need a real ship to use Ocean Floaties, just two open ports.

I have not opened any airports yet, so I can't advise on those.

I feel like an inch-worm that's just been shown how to evolve into a rabbit.

Whoa, thanks! That's like, much helpful. I was playing a completely different game. That clears up questions I had and questions I haven't even run into yet.

Ha ha, that's what I've been talking about. And I have only discussed mechanisms, mostly, not strategies. Those are things that let you use your tools. How you apply them is up to you, and is the core of the game.

So, trains... When you click on a town (blue or yellow), you’ll see its info box. In the upper right, there will be a truck icon with a number in it. That’s the max size truck allowed on the road to the town (so, the road connection capacity). Next to it, there may be a train icon. If it’s white, there is a train station in the town. If it’s black, you can pay to build one, but only after you complete the town. Heh heh heh...

Train tracks often run into areas that roads don’t reach, or can’t get to with larger trucks without upgrading. Since trains are big and fast, they can be very useful in moving large quantities of stuff from place to place. Natually, if you have a train station and a truck road, a depot placed there can take goods from the rail system and drop them into the local roads.

Trains explore just like trucks and train tracks need to be repaired before use, if they are roadblocked. Trains are expensive, however. You buy them from a Train depot with a little green flag, just like trucks. Note that you cannot ship trains around or give them Floaties.

^Wait, there are trains?

Robear wrote:

I have no idea whether that is a serious question, given the way I'm wired lol.

Completely serious and in awe of your progress!

Train tracks are sort of dark purple. When you get to the appropriate area, you'll get a contract. Fulfill it and you can buy a train!

Trains don't count against your 30 vehicle limit, I don't think. Don't buy a big one as your very first one.

There are locations that are connected via train but not roads.

I'm only a bit over 1% in, UMOarsman. There's a lot to this game.

So how goes it, folks? I'm setting up industries and finishing roadblocks, and thinking about expanding my fleet of ships. Still a ton of exploration to do.

What are you up to in-game?

I haven't played since my first couple of shots with the game. I've got a few things I want to finish up before I dig in for real and life's been pretty busy of late. My first 2-3 hours were very positive though.

That makes sense. It's a time-intensive game, even at faster speeds. But no more than a big jigsaw puzzle. A... Really big jigsaw puzzle.

Robear wrote:

That makes sense. It's a time-intensive game, even at faster speeds. But no more than a big jigsaw puzzle. A... Really big jigsaw puzzle. :-)

That's interesting you mention that. I was just saying to myself this weekend as I was playing it that it feels like making a puzzle. Except maybe each country is its own puzzle?

And in fact, each portion of a country is its own puzzle, with connections that open up when you cross into a new area. So not just NZ, Germany and Australia, but North Island and South Island, Victoria, West Australia, etc. All of those have their own challenges and limitations. Then, when you connect them up, more resources can be found and used, and then when you go international, you get another layer laid on top.

It’s certainly a unique style of puzzle.

I'm lagging behind Robear at a mere 120 towns / 300 businesses some 75+ hours in.

Guess I've covered maybe 2% of the globe at this point. But I'm super happy that the dev fast-tracked access to the good old USA as I'm digging deep into the west coast and covering some familiar territory.

It's a Forever Game that just keeps on giving. The more I play the more it keeps feeling like a jigsaw puzzle with a killer tempo & pace.

That would be much less than 2%. Which means there’s plenty more entertainment where that came from.

I’ve hit a wall with the US, so I’m advancing elsewhere and occasionally dropping in to see if any brainstorms hit. Japan and South Korea are fun.

Hypothetically speaking, if someone named "Merphle" had no idea whether this game would be a good fit for him, and was interested in maybe trying it out - which of the approximately 50,000 things with "LOGistICAL" in the name on Steam would be the most appropriate?

merphle wrote:

Hypothetically speaking, if someone named "Merphle" had no idea whether this game would be a good fit for him, and was interested in maybe trying it out - which of the approximately 50,000 things with "LOGistICAL" in the name on Steam would be the most appropriate?

I'd just start with LOGistICAL Earth (the latest). It does a good job of ramping you up from nothing.

^I'll let the experts answer here.

- I played for a quick half hour last night, completed a few more businesses. Am I correct that businesses/mailboxes disappear once you complete them?

- I do feel like I'm fighting the interface more as the map gets more unlocked. I have two trucks now, and am at a loss how I would manage even 10. Filling the small businesses feels like a one-by-one sort of thing that doesn't lend itself to repeatable routes, so even with two trucks I'm constantly changing destinations and origins. In my head I imagine series of trucks each doing repeatable routes on a chain that ends with some of those larger towns getting completed. Is that how gameplay morphs as you get more vehicles? Should I always be trying to have all my vehicles doing something?

- I also feel like I haven't figured out a good way to manage the zoom level to accomplish things quickly. When I zoom in I can't see the demand or availability that well. When I zoom out it's hard to select the specific locations. Sometimes I feel like demand or availability shows up and other times it doesn't seem to be working that way.

- Lastly, I feel like there is an overload of information. When I look at the map there are oodles of businesses and towns. The majority of them have question marks on them, so I often end up clicking around until I see something I can solve. Other times I click on a factory and see where demand exists for the item and work that way. Is that pretty much how people play? (The puzzle metaphor works well here, where sometimes you pick up a piece and try to put it in the puzzle. Other times you look at the puzzle and try to figure out where the piece that goes there is.) This is kind of where the map zoom issue comes into play.

I imagine I'll figure these things out as I play more, but at the moment it feels pretty inefficient.

UMOarsman wrote:
merphle wrote:

Hypothetically speaking, if someone named "Merphle" had no idea whether this game would be a good fit for him, and was interested in maybe trying it out - which of the approximately 50,000 things with "LOGistICAL" in the name on Steam would be the most appropriate?

I'd just start with LOGistICAL Earth (the latest). It does a good job of ramping you up from nothing.

Sounds good. I'm not quite ready to plunk $40 down on it, but lo and behold, there's a demo available! Nice!

merphle wrote:

Sounds good. I'm not quite ready to plunk $40 down on it, but lo and behold, there's a demo available! Nice!

The demo is beefy as hell too.

Easily 20 hrs. worth of content (all of NZ) and your progress carries over if you decide to buy.

Aaron D. wrote:

The demo is beefy as hell too.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

- I played for a quick half hour last night, completed a few more businesses. Am I correct that businesses/mailboxes disappear once you complete them?

They do. The ones that stay are towns and production and storage sites, vehicle shops, ports, airports and... I think that's it... Most of those you can manipulate in some way, and besides, the roads have to connect to something.

One thing about that green light - turn it on and you can overload a production storage bin by one truckload per truck. That way, if you get stuck with extra barley and the bin is full, you don't have to dump the load to continue on. Just pop that light on and power up the truck and it will dump the rest.

- I do feel like I'm fighting the interface more as the map gets more unlocked. I have two trucks now, and am at a loss how I would manage even 10. Filling the small businesses feels like a one-by-one sort of thing that doesn't lend itself to repeatable routes, so even with two trucks I'm constantly changing destinations and origins. In my head I imagine series of trucks each doing repeatable routes on a chain that ends with some of those larger towns getting completed. Is that how gameplay morphs as you get more vehicles? Should I always be trying to have all my vehicles doing something?

So. Make use of the little green light in the truck list or on lower left part of the speedometer. That means "drop the full load at the next destination". Turn it off so you only drop what you need, when you are fulfilling mailboxes and museums and roadblocks and such. So, you load up with, say, 20t of sand, then drag and go to the nearest mailbox destination. A small amount of your sand will drop to fill the location, then click the truck and drag to the next one, and so forth until you are empty. Then, with the truck still selected, click on the (probably unfilled) sand resource in the location description in the upper right, and drag it back to the sand pit. The truck will go, fill up, and come back, and you can start dragging and dropping again. The more you do this, the more likely the truck will hit a bonus and get faster, or load/unload faster. This is the most efficient way to do all those small circles.

Slight spoiler on techniques to fill towns follows:

Spoiler:

When you attempt a town, you should first see how many types of goods it needs, and how much. 1 good with an amount that you can do with one truck in one or two loads is easy, knock those off first. Then look for the ones that will take all your trucks to do (but still one good). If you need to, build a depot nearby and put 2x or 3x what you need in it, to reduce the round trip time and thus the "burn" of resources while the town fills. The more people in the town, the closer the depot should be. This can then be repeated with multiple goods and trucks as you get a bigger stable and bigger trucks.

When I have four or five vehicles, they are all pretty much in one area and I try to keep them busy. With 30+, I work region by region. There's no cost to not using them (but there is a cost to driving them empty). If you are not working a country and you need trucks in another, but have hit the global limit, just park some and buy in the area you need. You'll need to unpark and park to work different regions but that's just part of the game.

- I also feel like I haven't figured out a good way to manage the zoom level to accomplish things quickly. When I zoom in I can't see the demand or availability that well. When I zoom out it's hard to select the specific locations. Sometimes I feel like demand or availability shows up and other times it doesn't seem to be working that way.

Hard to say. I always make sure I have the good "grabbed" if I need to drag it to a location or look at where it is needed or stored. Sometimes there can be a tiny lag in the map, so just keep that mouse button down and give it a second or two to populate the new view, maybe.

- Lastly, I feel like there is an overload of information. When I look at the map there are oodles of businesses and towns. The majority of them have question marks on them, so I often end up clicking around until I see something I can solve. Other times I click on a factory and see where demand exists for the item and work that way. Is that pretty much how people play? (The puzzle metaphor works well here, where sometimes you pick up a piece and try to put it in the puzzle. Other times you look at the puzzle and try to figure out where the piece that goes there is.) This is kind of where the map zoom issue comes into play.

Zoom in while dragging to separate the icons so you can "catch" on one of them. I use the mouse wheel.

I almost always work from the supply unless I need to do a particular city (like to open up roads or create a depot or rail station). So when I need something to do, I'll go to a factory, grab a good and see where it needs to go and how much is needed. Then I work that and do all the spots I can, hopefully finding other goods and also upgrading the factory. Then I'll do another good. (This is after I finish all the roadblocks I can, of course, that's a priority.) I never bother checking mailboxes by clicking them, I only do that with cities and only occasionally. Dragging resources is the way to find work.

I imagine I'll figure these things out as I play more, but at the moment it feels pretty inefficient.

Once you get a system, and you've done a few game speed missions, the trucks will start zipping along and you'll see the utility of the drag/unzoom/find/zoom/drop mechanic. I felt like you did initially, but once you really get into it, the game just buzzes along and the interface shows its polish. Just remember, most of the time, start with a resource and examine locations, not the other way around. And turn off the green light unless you are providing manufacturing supplies!

Oh, one other thing... As trucks age, their icon starts to blur in the truck list, and their speedometer turns frosty and cracks. At that point, put the truck in a town and select "Fix". It'll cost a bit, but it will renew the truck so it is no longer stopping and starting and jerking around the map. The mechanic is that it will take100 or so trips by other trucks before it's repaired, in addition to the nominal fee. Much better than buying a new one and you don't lose the bonuses on the truck.

^Thanks! This is all quite helfpul, and cleared up a lot more of the fog around my brain. It makes me feel like I was on the right track, but just not quite there yet. Thanks!

And please send any coaching invoice directly to Gamers With Jobs. They'll take care of it.