The Surge Catch-All

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I've been cautiously excited for this game for quite some time. Here is a typically careful analysis of the game from Skill Up that has made me hopeful that the game could actually be great.

(I know I've created this thread before but it's sunk beyond the reach of the search engine.)

I'm interested, but my expectations are tempered because Lords of the Fallen was not good. They tried to emulate the heavy, impactful combat of Dark Souls, but they missed the mark in numerous ways that I have detailed in that game's thread. I'll be waiting for in-depth hands on impressions and reviews before I jump on this one. Hope it's good.

Lords of the Fallen has definitely made everyone, including me, sceptical. From what I'm hearing this game doesn't have the same problems but we'll see.

Haven't played Lords of the Fallen, but always interested in a good Dark Souls style game. Wait and see seems like a good approach given their history though.

The reviews have been "not bad." Phil Kollar of Polygon liked it, but he did like Lords of the Fallen more than I did. Giant Bomb's quick look was interesting.

Just the other day I was wishing I could play a new Souls game, and I played through Nioh earlier in the year. I guess I'm now a sucker for these types of games.

EDIT: Well crap that was a really good video Higgledy. Preordered.

Curious about this one, too.

I played about 30 minutes tonight. Minor spoilers ahead, if you are sensitive to that sort of thing.

Spoiler:

There is no character generation in this game. The protagonist is a cypher at this point.

I think this is the first time I played a character in a wheelchair in a video game. It doesn't last long, but it was an interesting beginning.

There is a bit of body horror in an early cut scene.

In the small time I had to explore, there was clearly a signposted path forward as well as a side path that led to more difficult enemies. When I quit for the evening I had just unlocked the ability to upgrade myself and spend scrap (read souls), so I may explore that path now that I don't have much to lose.

A trophy is awarded for dying the first time. Well played.

As a reward for pre-ordering (that is buying it 5 minutes before it unlocked) I acquired an equippable item that rings and buzzes when you are near a pickup. While it allowed me to find an item I probably wold have missed, it also works on a priximity basis, so it will buzz even if you cannot possibly get to the item at that time. There are limits to how many items can be equipped (4 at the beginning), so I probably will drop that soon.

The game seems to control pretty well at this point. I picked the more mobile class, and I feel I can dodge in and out. I wanted to keep playing, so that's a good sign.

Thumbs up so far. I've only just reached the first boss but I'm really enjoying it. Feels very much like Bloodborne in terms of gameplay (so much so that I remapped the controls to mirror Bloodborne's), but the combat is a bit more complex. In addition to the limb-targeting mechanic there's a timing component to attacks as well, properly timing attacks during combo chains decreases stamina costs and can interrupt/stagger enemies.

EDIT: It took half a dozen tries before I figured out the first boss and took it offline, but wow, that was a fun fight. I'm glad I'm going into this game blind.

One of ACG's typically thorough reviews of 'The Surge.'

Higgledy wrote:

Lords of the Fallen has definitely made everyone, including me, sceptical. From what I'm hearing this game doesn't have the same problems but we'll see.

I've said this before about eastern European studios, they often make ambitious but deeply flawed titles but if they see financial success they pour their experience into the next one so you can see big improvements. I suspect it's a function of low turnover and generally modest financial expectations. But you can see it if you look at the STALKER/Metro evolution and of course the Witcher series. Deck13 isn't quite in that category (CI, who helped make LotF most certainly is) but they seem to lean towards that model.

I am quite interested in this overall, though watching video I can already tell the idea of the "bonfire" mechanic is going to bother me a bit from a thematic perspective. It doesn't seem to fit quite as well as it does in a fantasy world where it can be written off as part of the world cycle/dream logic like it is in Dark Souls and Bloodborne.

It sounds like the 'bonfires' are actually safe rooms with useful machines in them.

Higgledy wrote:

It sounds like the 'bonfires' are actually safe rooms with useful machines in them.

I mean, the lore as to why the enemies all come back. It just doesn't fit the world's tone as well. Nitpicky I know.

It didn't make much sense in Lords of the Fallen, either.

It's sci-fi though, so it could be that the whole this is a holographic simulation to keep you distracted while they harvest your body heat in a pod somewhere.

gains wrote:

It's sci-fi though, so it could be that the whole this is a holographic simulation to keep you distracted while they harvest your body heat in a pod somewhere.

Spoilers.

Also, when I started up the game today, the save slot told me:

Employment: 00:30
Last Shift: 15.05.17

Nice.

So far, I like this way more than Lords of the Fallen.

I'm still in the first (tutorial) area, but I've made my first full set of armor, and I'm swinging a sword like nobody's business. I've heard the game gets harder in the second area, but so far it's been a pretty gentle introduction. I defeated a big huge robot and got a ton of scrap (souls) which allowed me to level up a bunch.

You basically begin at level 10 and as you level up your level allows you to equip armor and items that have a certain energy cost. After 90 minutes I'm at level 21 and fully equipped with both a heal and a heal over time. I could trade out something for more health, so there is flexibility. The loop seems to be level to get energy and then use energy to equip more powerful items.

There is a specific farming loop as well. I had all the items for the armor set except for the head. So I went out looking for enemies with armored heads. By attacking and targeting their heads, I was able to do a finishing move that eventually dropped the schematic to allow me to build that piece. Each piece also has different levels to it, so I assume later in the game you get higher level crafting materials to build gear upgrades. It feels Monster Hunter-ish, although I never put much time into that series.

Patrick Klepek at Waypoint says he has been a bit frustrated with the game, but it has started to win him over. Watching him play Nioh convinced me to try that game, which I quite enjoyed. This may be worth your time.

Aristophan wrote:

I've heard the game gets harder in the second area, but so far it's been a pretty gentle introduction.

I can confirm this. More heavy exo-suits and large combat mechs start showing up in the second area and it presents a pretty sharp difficulty spike. I died more in the first few rooms of the second zone than in the entire first zone.

EDIT: and the goliath exos with the yosuke butterfly rigs can go eat a bag of dicks.

I played quite a bit more last night, and today I defeated the first boss, after way too many attempts. I really explored the first level, and there are definitely some places that I couldn't go and some places it was difficult to go. The tried-and-true "suicide run" could be used to pick up a nice weapon, and I had at least one moment where I was shocked by a shortcut I unlocked. Overall, I really liked the level design.

Minor boss and item spoilers:

Spoiler:

Actually I getting a little frustrated because I couldn't find the boss. I thought maybe it was underground past a security door that I couldn't open. Today I went back to a previously explored area, which triggered the boss arrival. Now that I think about it, I think I triggered it by turning on the electricity downstairs, but I hadn't connected that action to the train station in my head.

My new favorite implant is the one that heals you by using energy. I get a lot more heal usages out if it, and it encourages (safely) taking out the trash.

I'm looking forward to the soul crushing.

Also, whoever recorded this line reserves a raise:

Have a nice day ... Warren.

The level design for the second area is phenomenal, lots of nooks and crannies, changes in elevation, overlooks, and shortcuts. There are three separate instances spaced throughout the level where you are looking down upon/into the boss arena before you actually fight it, and you are constantly opening up shortcuts as you progress that forces you to rethink how the level is layed out. If From ever makes a new Souls game they should definitely try to poach the people who designed this area.

I think this game is going to get lost in the great game deluge of 2017. So far I'm really enjoying my time with it, and I think it's one of the more approachable Souls-like games.

First the bad: The story is not really all that interesting. The characters are stereotypical. You don't get a chance to make your own character - you are a white dude. The first female character I met in the flesh immediately went into flirting dialogue options, in the middle of an apocalypse.

Another issue: I killed a mini-boss, but I died so I was not able to pick up a quest item. I looked it up, and it's for a side area that rewards some special armor. Maybe it will get patched, or I could pick it up in a NG+. Also, I have heard of people stuck in geometry, and I was almost stuck myself at one point.

The game has some other issues that I am neutral on. There is no multiplayer. That means no ganking, but it also makes it a more lonely experience. No PVP and no ganging up on boss fights. Also, there are not really a variety of builds. Everything is tradeoffs, which can be switched at any time. There does not seem to be the depth of equipment that Souls veterans want. Finally, there are only a few boss fights. Bosses are my least favorite part of Souls games, so this is more of a positive to me.

Now some positives. The game is fast paced, and reminds me mostly of Bloodborne, my favorite of the series. Block is pretty useless, and you get energy for special moves or heals by attacking enemies. The game wants you to be aggressive. I've spent a good amount of time with 3 of the 5 weapon types, and I've enjoyed them all. Right now I'm playing with a staff, which is actually a pretty quick weapon that also has some weight to it. It also has good reach and responds quickly.

You can pause the game.

The level design is fantastic. While it is not one overall connected place, it is a wonderful labyrinth that you slowly get to know like the back of your hand. I've been deep on the maze, worried if I should keep going or run back. I've been surprised several times at how the maze loops back on itself. Also, each area features its own item drops. I wanted some level 1 items, so I went back to the first area to farm it up. I knew to do that - I didn't need to look it up in a wiki. When I was there, I found another secret I had overlooked. That same opening area still has some secrets for when I am more powerful.

You can bank your scrap (souls), so you won't ever lose it all.

I think the game is worth trying out.

Aristophan wrote:

Also, there are not really a variety of builds. Everything is tradeoffs, which can be switched at any time.

That is a major negative to me. Though it only matters if it is a game you want to replay anyway.
But it sounds great that the area design is high quality. The one area where the recent Nioh was weak.

Real intrigued to see what everyone thinks of The Surge. Didn't know it was out so soon!

Thanks for the write-up, Aristophan. I'm a little put off by the characterization, but the rest sounds pretty neat.

The game is pretty awesome to me. The loop of gameplay isn't bad. It can get pretty chaotic if you don't play safe but there is a push for you to be aggressive with energy gain for abilities. The best weapon type is the heavy weapon. You can hit hard and just stagger anything. The combat pacing is below Bloodborne. It feels chunky like their previous game.

I also found that with a successful block (no damage) you can swing into a hard attack that wrecks enemies fast. I don't know if there is a parry though. I sorta wish you can do a custom face for the MC.

The opening is really effective. It is unpleasant and the initial reveal of the MC is good.

The areas are well designed. Every time I go and find a new path or door through the level.

Shadout wrote:
Aristophan wrote:

Also, there are not really a variety of builds. Everything is tradeoffs, which can be switched at any time.

That is a major negative to me. Though it only matters if it is a game you want to replay anyway.
But it sounds great that the area design is high quality. The one area where the recent Nioh was weak.

I understand. Nioh had a ton of different builds, and I played around with several of them, but it's level design was very linear in comparison. I know people who complained that Bloodborne didn't have enough build variety, as compared to Dark Souls, and this goes even further.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Thanks for the write-up, Aristophan. I'm a little put off by the characterization, but the rest sounds pretty neat.

Yeah, the characterization is on the disappointing end, as opposed to the offensive end for me, but YMMV.

JohnKillo wrote:

The game is pretty awesome to me. The loop of gameplay isn't bad. It can get pretty chaotic if you don't play safe but there is a push for you to be aggressive with energy gain for abilities. The best weapon type is the heavy weapon. You can hit hard and just stagger anything. The combat pacing is below Bloodborne. It feels chunky like their previous game.

I also found that with a successful block (no damage) you can swing into a hard attack that wrecks enemies fast. I don't know if there is a parry though. I sorta wish you can do a custom face for the MC.

I haven't played around with the heavy weapon yet. I'll give it a try. There does seem to be some mechanic where you knock them down from behind with a 1 hp hit, and then follow up with a massive blow. I haven't been able to do it while sneaking up behind an enemy, so it may involve having to dodge behind them in order to pull that off.

I got lucky. I got it in the underground after the 1st boss. The twin rigged enemies seem to be annoying. They can rush and take all of your health in a few blows.

Aristophan wrote:

There does seem to be some mechanic where you knock them down from behind with a 1 hp hit, and then follow up with a massive blow. I haven't been able to do it while sneaking up behind an enemy, so it may involve having to dodge behind them in order to pull that off.

A horizontal attack from behind with any weapon initiates a kick which knocks the enemy to their knees. Any follow up attack will do bonus damage but a horizontal attack targeting the head almost guarantees a decapitation. It can be done in battle but it's tricky, it's much easier to pull off while sneaking up on an enemy.

JohnKillo wrote:

The twin rigged enemies seem to be annoying. They can rush and take all of your health in a few blows.

I've found dash attacks most useful for those, dash + attack while they're charging at you and you'll slide under their attack and stagger them, initiating a combo chain that should be more than enough to trigger an execution.

Damn, you guys need to stop talking about this. I'm really interested.

nevermind.

I beat the second boss today, but the three legged robots in the third area are kicking my butt. I've tried lots of weapons, but nothing seems to be working reliably.

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