Wheel of Time now out on Amazon

Math wrote:
Spoiler:

Rand and Selene being one. (Though I'm unsure about Lanfear being some sorta undead?) How Liandrin tricked Nynaeve et al into leaving the tower being the other. In both cases the books made the protagonists look pretty credulous.

Spoiler:

I think the Forsaken being immortal except for Balefire, is a good change from the book. I always had trouble remembering the Forsaken's reincarnated names. Can you imagine trying to explain to non book readers, that Lanfear is in a new body (new actress) and her name is Cyndane? Plus, while the show didn't explain it, they did show the Saa in her eyes, when she healed, and that the black weaves that healed her wounds had to be the True Power.

Episode 5 was way better than Episode 4. Part of it is because it's fun watching the bad guys put on their goth makeup and twirl their moustaches at each other, and part of it, hate to say it, is the total lack of Lan, Alanna, and Alanna's Himbos.

It feels bad, because I like Lan's actor-- Alanna and her himbos I could take or leave -- and the writers seem determined to give him a main character's amount of screen time and absolutely nothing to do in it. He's not Rand's mentor like he was in the book, he's not Moraine's warder any more, he just seems to be in a holding pattern until they need him to be Nynaeve's love interest again, which even at the show's accelerated pace likely won't be for a season or two, and in the books even after that he was really only good for a BDSM joke or two, but that's okay because in a book you don't need to keep an actor busy enough to stop them from going and getting another gig.

Aviendha was awesome though, Dream World Goth Dommy Mommy Lanfear at the end was fun, and Verin's the GOAT.

I will say her circumstances is one thing I remember from the books that adds so much deliciousness to every scene Verin is in. (especially the scene with Liandrin, in my head I was going "ooh child!")

And while I enjoy the casting of Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne, zomg Aviendha is just bonkers great! (Elias too)

God yeah, knowing what's going to happen gives me double levels of joy for every scene Verin is in because she plays it so well. Every move looks innocent if you don't know what's coming, and looks super deep if you do. Brilliant casting.

And yeah, this ep could have just been Aviendha kicking ass and I would have been satisfied.

fangblackbone wrote:

I will say her circumstances is one thing I remember from the books that adds so much deliciousness to every scene Verin is in. (especially the scene with Liandrin, in my head I was going "ooh child!")

Neither my wife nor I have read the books, but we both thought her facial expressions during that scene were perfect.

The hardest part is not making comments about things I know while I watch with my partner, they haven't read the books.

I have the opposite, not with WoT, but with anything Marvel. My wife thinks I am an expert on everything since I read comics back in the 90s. She also often asks "what does GWJ say/think?"

But I could easily see that if we watched WoT together. The show is reminding me that the sum total of things I remember from the books can be written in less than half a page. I have about a dozen character names and barely more than strong impressions of whether I root for them or boo them ;P

I feel like Lorne Balfe is also enjoying the wider world-building this season. I thought the S1 soundtrack was fine but a little workmanlike, like he was mostly just trying to look for ways to not completely rip off Game of Thrones or LotR - but the stuff he's doing this time around with the vocal/choral themes for the Seanchan and Aiel feels actually inspired, and genuinely original. There was some really terrific music in Ep 5, and the overall audio mix gives it plenty of room to shine.

Spoiler:

Good girl.

That was a powerful, and painful, episode.

Not a great fan of the treatment Mat's getting in the series. I know they're trying to work around what happened with the actor in S1, but really he's become the least likable of the Two Rivers crew. Unfortunate, given that he's one of the most fun, likable, and relatable ones in the books. [Edit: after some "research" it looks like Mat regularly wins "fan favorite" style polls by large margins.]

Well, he does keep saying that he's not a bloody hero.

Not really a fan of the actor playing Egwene's suldam. She strikes me as reading lines.
Sorry for the nitpick, it just rubs me as off with everything else going around it.

Huh, I really liked her performance. I really got the impression that the character is someone in an evil system, that wants to view themselves as a good person, and when frustrated, lets her true vileness out.

IMAGE(https://i.redd.it/p1ns6iwl6bqb1.png)

Math wrote:

Not a great fan of the treatment Mat's getting in the series. I know they're trying to work around what happened with the actor in S1, but really he's become the least likable of the Two Rivers crew. Unfortunate, given that he's one of the most fun, likable, and relatable ones in the books. [Edit: after some "research" it looks like Mat regularly wins "fan favorite" style polls by large margins.]

I always liked Perrin better. I do agree that Mat's been impacted the worst by the changes they made, both those they were forced to make to deal with the actor leaving, and those they chose to make to get an entire book to fit into an 8 episode season. I'm hopeful he'll return to how he's supposed to be once his Ta'veren luck starts to manifest itself.

Huh, I really liked her performance.

Well, in my opinion, the only thing good that has come of it is Egwene blasting the others off their feet. And the line "I am going to kill you". I hope they don't play this plot line out to the end of the season.

There are definitely a few gifts from this different turning of the wheel. Lanfear, the Seanchan (I never really got a good feeling for what they looked like, they were more like a spectre looming in the distance), Perrin + Aviendha?, Logain (hated him in the books, love him in the show), Elayne too (so annoying in the books), Loial is as expected (awesome)

I don't know how I feel about Rand unshielding Moiraine. If it is meant to allude to

Spoiler:

Rand and Nynaeve healing the taint, then it both is interesting stepping stone, but also takes away from Nynaeve's agency.

I have no idea what they are doing with Matt and it is a shame. And where is Thom? And Min is pushing way down in importance. It seems like Moiraine's sister and nephew get more air time than Min. And Thom sang a song and disappeared

I think it's just a way to introduce the concept of tying off weaves since they've spent so little time in the White Tower where a lot of the exposition about the One Power was done in the books. Plus it demonstrates that beyond just being stronger, the Forsaken know so much more about how to use the One Power than modern Aes Sedai do.

I understand they could have easily gotten lost in the weeds with more White Tower stuff. But I do wish they had spent more time there.

Its really a shame that there isn't a companion series. Because there is a lot of good stuff being cut.

But that was always a case with the books. The books were huge and still didn't have enough pages to not have whole plotlines and characters go idle for a whole book.

I’m assuming that

Spoiler:

Mat’s visions after drinking that tea mean they aren’t doing those weird snake creatures either?

Sorbicol wrote:

I’m assuming that

Spoiler:

Mat’s visions after drinking that tea mean they aren’t doing those weird snake creatures either?

Spoiler:

I think it might actually be what drives him to go into the mirror. He isn't missing memories due to his time with the dagger like he was in the book, and getting them back is why he went in. Now he can be looking for answers to what he saw in the visions.

Stengah wrote:
Sorbicol wrote:

I’m assuming that

Spoiler:

Mat’s visions after drinking that tea mean they aren’t doing those weird snake creatures either?

Spoiler:

I think it might actually be what drives him to go into the mirror. He isn't missing memories due to his time with the dagger like he was in the book, and getting them back is why he went in. Now he can be looking for answers to what he saw in the visions.

Spoiler:

Considering Min's vision has Mat stabbing Rand with the Dagger, I assume he will at least touch it again, but, I think he will get all of his past life knowledge when he blows the horn. I don't think we are going to see the Snakes and Foxes. Probably too WTF for non book readers, plus really expensive/hard to get right for "characters" that don't even have dialogue.

Badferret wrote:
Spoiler:

Considering Min's vision has Mat stabbing Rand with the Dagger, I assume he will at least touch it again, but, I think he will get all of his past life knowledge when he blows the horn. I don't think we are going to see the Snakes and Foxes. Probably too WTF for non book readers, plus really expensive/hard to get right for "characters" that don't even have dialogue.

Spoiler:

If I recall correctly, Robert Jordan himself said that Mat's memories aren't from his past lives. Seeing your past/different lives is a recurring theme (the Accepted trials, portal stones, etc) but not in this case. I've really no idea WTF they're doing with Mat now and wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't blow the Horn at all.

So they have one episode left.
Are they just going to have the duel in the sky and then "see ya next season"?

Also: please more Aviendha!!!!!!!!

At this point I'm starting to think that maybe nobody blows the Horn this season. They spent just barely enough time on it during the season premiere to let you know that they haven't forgotten about it, but they haven't set up what it actually does at all, and it seems like that would have been the time to do it. Without that setup, it would likely come off as a bit of an ass-pull. Honestly, it kinda came off as a bit of an ass-pull in the book, and that was WITH a fair amount of setup.

Re: Mat, there really isn't much about his showsona that's wildly different from the dagger junkie from the first two books; even the deal with Min seeing a vision of Mat killing Rand is similar to a moment in the books after the flicker flicker flicker scene where Mat shakily says that he would never betray Rand in such a way as to make it sound like he DID see himself betraying Rand in at least some of his alternate lives.

So I can't even do the "it's not like the books therefore it's bad" thing when I say that I get that some of it was forced on them by Barney Harris leaving, but I really hope we move past Depressed Junkie Mat and on to Swashbuckling Devil-May-Care Mat next season.

fangblackbone wrote:

And Thom sang a song and disappeared :(

Frankly I haven't missed Thom all that much - and IIRC he really doesn't do that much in books two and three except for take Rand under his wing on Daes Dae'mar, a fun plotline that apparently got almost completely axed in the show. I guess he also...

Spoiler:

...murders the King of Cairhien...

...but Cairhienin politics got overhauled for the show, and that plotline doesn't seem like it's going to happen either.

Re: the dagger:

Spoiler:

I think they're setting it up so the wound in Rand's side comes from Mat stabbing him with the dagger as a result of Ishamael's manipulation, instead of Rand intentionally getting himself stabbed by Ishamael during their battle. All the book 2 setup with Lan training Rand to become a blademaster has been axed, and that whole plotline sets the stage for Rand's wounding in the battle at Falme. So they've laid none of that groundwork, but they've laid plenty of groundwork for Mat stabbing Rand, engineered by Ishamael. And they've spent enough time on that dagger that maybe it's a little more efficient to have that thing create a cursed, unhealable wound vs. Ishamael's sword, which really is only justified in the novels through vague hand waving (eg. it can't be healed because, uh, Ishamael is powerful and bad).

Podunk wrote:

Re: the dagger:

Spoiler:

I think they're setting it up so the wound in Rand's side comes from Mat stabbing him with the dagger as a result of Ishamael's manipulation, instead of Rand intentionally getting himself stabbed by Ishamael during their battle. All the book 2 setup with Lan training Rand to become a blademaster has been axed, and that whole plotline sets the stage for Rand's wounding in the battle at Falme. So they've laid none of that groundwork, but they've laid plenty of groundwork for Mat stabbing Rand, engineered by Ishamael. And they've spent enough time on that dagger that maybe it's a little more efficient to have that thing create a cursed, unhealable wound vs. Ishamael's sword, which really is only justified in the novels through vague hand waving (eg. it can't be healed because, uh, Ishamael is powerful and bad).

That makes a lot of sense. Though they seemed to imply that Rand learned some blade forms from the insane blademaster in the asylum.

I also am not sorry to see less of Thom. He always seemed like a bit player in Book 1 that got retconned into a Major Character in later books.

Spoiler:

Hopper! No!

Well, it was better than last season's finale. Seeing Mat get to do stuff besides mope put a smile on my face. Having him refer to himself as a bloody hero is damn near heresy, though.

It couldn't quite pull off that climactic moment of triumph near the end. Rand just didn't do enough this episode for it to feel earned when he took his place at the head of the flying V and posed while everyone looked up at him and clapped.

I think they were wise not to leave it there. The saving grace of this season was Lanfear and Ishy, I think. That was where the show felt most free to be the weird, horny, campy costume party it was always meant to be. That final scene promised more of that in the future, and it's kind of all I want from the show right now.

hbi2k wrote:

Well, it was better than last season's finale. Seeing Mat get to do stuff besides mope put a smile on my face. Having him refer to himself as a bloody hero is damn near heresy, though.

It couldn't quite pull off that climactic moment of triumph near the end. Rand just didn't do enough this episode for it to feel earned when he took his place at the head of the flying V and posed while everyone looked up at him and clapped.

I think they were wise not to leave it there. The saving grace of this season was Lanfear and Ishy, I think. That was where the show felt most free to be the weird, horny, campy costume party it was always meant to be. That final scene promised more of that in the future, and it's kind of all I want from the show right now.

I liked it more than the book's sky battle with Ishy, I could never really wrap my head around that, even after multiple readings.

I took Rand's pose on top of the tower, as, more of an, oh sh*t, I guess this is happening.

I might have gotten teary at Hopper, and with Moraine, telling Lan that she is not his equal.

Spoiler:

And I'm sure I'll get teary when we see ghost Hopper next season.

Moghedien be cray, y'all.