[News] Trump, Russia, and the 2016 Election

All news related to Donald Trump's alleged ties to Russia and to the Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. New details should be cited to reputable sources.

Senator Joe Kennedy of Louisiana looks shook. Weirdly, Chuck Todd is the one cutting off and debunking the Biden spin. It’s rare to see him speechless.

But it is a case that the Senate Republicans are not on yet.

But I mostly avoid MTP because Todd has been such a terrible interviewer. I think even journalists are figuring this out. M

He just accused Kennedy of pulling an LBJ, saying, “It doesn’t matter if it’s true, just make them deny it.”

Rat Boy wrote:

This could be why Pelosi was dragging this out for so long, that if Pence was in on it too, he'd be thrown out and that'd make her president. And that'd look like a power grab to the GOP, a similar situation facing the Speaker of the House during the Watergate era after Agnew resigned as VP.

To be fair, it IS a power grab. In the same way that my carefully taking a gun out of a toddler's hands is a power grab.

zeroKFE wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Honestly, if we can take Pence down with him, then the last two years, waiting for this was worth it.

Not sure I'd go so far as "worth it," but it would certainly be a welcome consolation nonetheless.

Yeah unless we get Kavanaugh impeached too for perjury, damage has been done.

Stele wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Honestly, if we can take Pence down with him, then the last two years, waiting for this was worth it.

Not sure I'd go so far as "worth it," but it would certainly be a welcome consolation nonetheless.

Yeah unless we get Kavanaugh impeached too for perjury, damage has been done.

Mitch might be willing to trade Kavanaugh for Trump and Pence being shown the door quickly.

I started a new thread now that we have official impeachment proceedings

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/...

Rat Boy wrote:

IF, and this is a mighty big "if," this is actually a bipartisan effort as indicated by the Senate vote, then it's over for Trump.

It might be a bipartisan effort for the few hours it takes for Fox News pundits to get their angry, indignant talking points up. Then it will be 100% stonewalling.

Just like how for a brief time Republicans were shaken by Blasey Ford’s testimony. It won’t last.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/IsON0RZ.png)

I mean remember the bit in the Meuller testimony where he said "I'm f*cked" but then it turns out he wasn't because nobody actually did anything. He knows he broke the law.

I’ve been squawking about this for the past year!
NPR to the rescue

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals

The National Rifle Association acted as a "foreign asset" for Russia in the period leading up to the 2016 election, according to a new investigation unveiled Friday by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon.

Drawing on contemporaneous emails and private interviews, an 18-month probe by the Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff found that the NRA underwrote political access for Russian nationals Maria Butina and Alexander Torshin more than previously known — even though the two had declared their ties to the Kremlin.

I don't know which thread this should go in....


NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals

The National Rifle Association acted as a "foreign asset" for Russia in the period leading up to the 2016 election, according to a new investigation unveiled Friday by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon.

Drawing on contemporaneous emails and private interviews, an 18-month probe by the Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff found that the NRA underwrote political access for Russian nationals Maria Butina and Alexander Torshin more than previously known — even though the two had declared their ties to the Kremlin.

The report also describes how closely the gun rights group was involved with organizing a 2015 visit by some of its leaders to Moscow.

Then-NRA vice president Pete Brownell, who would later become NRA president, was enticed to visit Russia with the promise of personal business opportunities — and the NRA covered a portion of the trip's costs.

Link to whole report

That was one of the things I expected to come out of the Mueller Report, but he seemed to not follow it much at all. The Dems are doing a much better job dealing with trump scandals now. Was going to post that here, too.

It's part of what makes this new scandal so perfect. It's allowed the Dems to get a reset and to use what they learned from the first go at Trump. His propaganda war has been way more effective than they imagined and, worse, they seemed to have no clue how to combat it. The trick has been to to be ready to drop new bombshells each day, often in response to propaganda, always being ready to bury it out of the news.

Trump is right about one thing. We are at war. He just doesn't realize that he is just a weapon of Russia, not an actual participant.

In an email later circulated to two senior NRA staff members, Butina wrote that a purpose of the 2015 Moscow trip was that "many powerful figures in the Kremlin are counting on Torshin to prove his American connections" by showing he could bring prominent NRA officials to Russia.
It was a explicit interest expressed by Butina: in one 2015 email to an NRA employee, Butina wrote, "is there a list of U.S. governors or members of Congress that might be present at some time during the [NRA] annual meeting?"

The employee responded with a list.

The NRA also helped them forge connections with other groups such as the Council for National Policy, the National Prayer Breakfast, the National Sporting Goods Wholesalers Association and Safari Club International.

buttery males

I would give the Dems some slack here with their prior handling. Because you shouldn't expect them to know how deep and for how long the instant the Russian interference was revealed. I mean, would you hold the intelligence agencies to the same standard? They knew of interference ahead of 2016 but it seems they are piecing together all of the pieces now too.

It is clear to me that the Trumps are involved with the Russian mafia (all of them) and have been for decades.

The Trumps have borrowed hundreds of millions of dollars from Russia. Trump doesn’t believe in paying back his debtors, which means they’re in debt to the country of Russia. But we’re supposed to believe that “there’s no quid pro quo.” No conflict of interest.

I’ve read that the difference with what happened with the 2016 election and the current impeachment inquiry is that with the election Trump was not yet president, and we were finding out about the crimes after the fact, and with the current impeachment inquiry Trump is now the sitting president and we are finding out about the crimes as they are happening. I can’t say that I agree with that line of logic, but it seems to be a valid point.

Perhaps the other big distinction with the Russia collusion (setting aside the obstruction) is that was FEC violations, whereas Ukraine would be abuse of power.

Maybe one reason is that people can imagine Trump doing this.

An influence campaign orchestrated from behind the scenes involving spymasters and international intrigue? Sounds a little complicated for Trump.

Calling up the leader of a country he probably can't find on a map the way he would call up the National Enquirer to ask for dirty rumours on someone he wanted to take down in the media? Using the far-reaching and deep power of the most important office in the history of the world with all the subtlety and class of a low-level mob thug who just got appointed Zoning Officer?

Yeah, that sounds like Trump.

Everyone does realize that the Biden/Ukraine scandal is an actual thing, right?

There are several independent commentators and journalists (Tim Pool, Jimmy Dore, etc.) that flat-out prove that there is some connection with the Biden's, Ukraine, and Burisma.

Hunter Biden get's discharged from the Navy for testing positive for illegal drugs (cocaine), he then flies out to Ukraine with Joe Biden (who was placed in charge of Ukraine relations) and ends up on the board of Burisma with zero experience in the country or energy. Biden then gets a prosecutor (investigating Burisma for corruption) fired by threatening to withhold $1B dollars in US loan guarantees.

Biden also claimed that Hunter's business dealings with Ukraine were never discussed, but was found to be golfing with Hunter and another Burisma board member 2 months after Hunter's appointment to the board.

I mean, nothing is conclusive, but political dynasty definitely seems to be in play here.

I'm not going to fault Trump for wanting to see what really happened either. I'd rather have a president that takes a 'moral' hit for exposing the possibility of a major political figure using his position and power for self/familial gains than a president who just lets the swamp do its thing.

Oh...and look up information on how the DNC was connected to Ukraine trying to use Russia as a screen for Hillary Clinton to win the election in 2016. All of that stuff has been investigated by several sources and exposed.

Not try to start a political war on here either. I just found the community and think it's pretty awesome, but I think everyone should be more informed on what facts are available. I'm also open to listening to factual counterpoints that show otherwise as well =D

tweeder459 wrote:

Everyone does realize that the Biden/Ukraine scandal is an actual thing, right?

Great! Let's have a full investigation. Let's really shine the light on cronnies and these backroom deals.

However it doesn't seem like that is what happened. Instead a person used it to try to secure personal advantage.

tweeder459 wrote:

Biden then gets a prosecutor (investigating Burisma for corruption) fired by threatening to withhold $1B dollars in US loan guarantees.

You got that one backwards. The prosecutor wasn't investigating corruption. That's why many people were encouraging Ukraine to fire him (including many people on both sides of the aisle in the US Congress).

By getting the corrupt prosecutor fired, Biden made it more likely that Burisma would be investigated.

tweeder459 wrote:

Not try to start a political war on here either. I just found the community and think it's pretty awesome, but I think everyone should be more informed on what facts are available. I'm also open to listening to factual counterpoints that show otherwise as well =D

Nice sock. As long as folks are afraid enough to be associated with this nonsense, we have a chance to get past this dark moment in our nation’s history.

I'd rather have a President that uses the existing diplomatic and investigative means available instead of breaking the law, personally... but you do you, 'tweeder'.

tweeder459 wrote:

Not try to start a political war on here either. I just found the community and think it's pretty awesome, but I think everyone should be more informed on what facts are available. I'm also open to listening to factual counterpoints that show otherwise as well =D

That doesn't stop what Trump did from being an impeachable offense.

tweeder459 wrote:

Not try to start a political war on here either. I just found the community and think it's pretty awesome, but I think everyone should be more informed on what facts are available. I'm also open to listening to factual counterpoints that show otherwise as well =D

Oh and welcome, though I wouldn't recommend starting in the debate section. We don't know you yet and this being textual communication it's hard to judge where people are coming from outside of what they wrote.

I love that Trump fans think that because X did Y crime Trump is ok to then do any crime he wants. Sorry the world thankfully doesn’t work that way. Its still breaking the law and an impeachable offense.

No one’s going to point out that they cited an alt-right anti-sjw youtuber and a hacky out-of-touch comedian as references?

ruhk wrote:

No one’s going to point out that they cited an alt-right anti-sjw youtuber and a hacky out-of-touch comedian as references?

Check out his Steam avatar. Checks out. He just requested to join the GWJ group.

This thread and that are his only posts.

Maybe not a sock, but definitely a loser.

TheGameguru wrote:

I love that Trump fans think that because X did Y crime Trump is ok to then do any crime he wants. Sorry the world thankfully doesn’t work that way. Its still breaking the law and an impeachable offense.

I don't even like Creepy Joe, but I don't know what he or his son have to do with all the horrible things that 45 has been doing or any evidence that may contribute towards his impeachment. Every time someone brings it up in response to yet one more awful thing related to Trump, it just comes off to me as typical conservative fundie #whataboutism that is completely irrelevant to the topic.

If Biden committed something criminal, investigate it surely, but it (or bringing up Hillary or Obama or some other person) doesn't let Trump off the hook for anything.

ruhk wrote:

No one’s going to point out that they cited an alt-right anti-sjw youtuber and a hacky out-of-touch comedian as references?

No reason to totally ruin the fun. Just like how I didn't mention that most here don't give a sh*t about Biden being investigated. NASA can crawl up his butt with the Hubble space telescope to examine him and I'm fine with it, just as I think it's best that any politician have their undies hung out in the wind for all to see (Trump certainly is averse to that!). Any that wouldn't can hit the bricks, because they're not trustworthy enough to represent me.

Also, his kind might be welcome at a different point in history or even a different point in the future, but more old white man shenanigans aren't what we need right now.

So... other than the fact that this shows our commander in cheat is gullible enough to eat garbage and regurgitate it in an illegal way, I don't care enough about it to argue.

bekkilyn wrote:

If Biden committed something criminal, investigate it surely, but it (or bringing up Hillary or Obama or some other person) doesn't let Trump off the hook for anything.

This has all happened before.

Art Buchwald wrote:

2. What about Chappaquiddick?