Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Catch-All

jdzappa wrote:

Started a new turn based game and whoa boy I am not impressed. The first pirate battle that took like 45 seconds in RtwP drug out for several minutes as it took at least 2-3 turns to kill each scrub. My crew were totally worthless in scoring hits so I had to do all the work. I will probably try it out some more but it doesn't feel smooth like the Divinity series.

I'm nodding along with your premise, but how far did you proceed after? The intro ship scene strikes me as a, potentially, lopsided outlier. Beyond Eder and the three to four (IIRC) named combatants* on your side, everyone else present, on both sides, is 'red shirt' window dressing. That particular scene being bad for TB isn't entirely surprising.

*misc aside: I test drove a LOT of initial character combos. Unless they patched it, the named ship people, including Eder, can die off in that scene and not show up after ;-P

I'm curious enough to eventually try it out, but I rather liked the game RTwP. I tend to play it on a slower than 1:1 speed to minimize the need to pause-pause-pause. The result was between traditional RTwP and TB anyways, for me. Aside2: you get an appreciation for how, relative to the genre and especially isometric view games, they animated everything. Go smack a Xaurip with a big 2-hander and watch how the funky pterodactyl-like flaps on their head snap back in relation to the rest of their body crumpling. Granted, DOS:2 really upped the overall ante as well with its attention to detail.

Recreational Villain wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

Started a new turn based game and whoa boy I am not impressed. The first pirate battle that took like 45 seconds in RtwP drug out for several minutes as it took at least 2-3 turns to kill each scrub. My crew were totally worthless in scoring hits so I had to do all the work. I will probably try it out some more but it doesn't feel smooth like the Divinity series.

I'm nodding along with your premise, but how far did you proceed after? The intro ship scene strikes me as a, potentially, lopsided outlier. Beyond Eder and the three to four (IIRC) named combatants* on your side, everyone else present, on both sides, is 'red shirt' window dressing. That particular scene being bad for TB isn't entirely surprising.

*misc aside: I test drove a LOT of initial character combos. Unless they patched it, the named ship people, including Eder, can die off in that scene and not show up after ;-P

I'm curious enough to eventually try it out, but I rather liked the game RTwP. I tend to play it on a slower than 1:1 speed to minimize the need to pause-pause-pause. The result was between traditional RTwP and TB anyways, for me. Aside2: you get an appreciation for how, relative to the genre and especially isometric view games, they animated everything. Go smack a Xaurip with a big 2-hander and watch how the funky pterodactyl-like flaps on their head snap back in relation to the rest of their body crumpling. Granted, DOS:2 really upped the overall ante as well with its attention to detail.

I’ve only gotten to the initial cave so arguably things might get better. I have pretty limited gaming time so not sure I will continue in this mode. Would be interested to hear how things play out at max level.

Also, I think there is a way to speed up animations but need to do more investigation. Not trying to stop anyone from trying it out, only saying that I find it less compelling than normal mode.

^ No worries there; good starting point. Looks like Cohh (~CohhCarnage) has just under an hour of the new TB mode up on YouTube: CohhCarnage Takes A Look At Pillars Of Eternity 2's New Turn Based Mode

I only watched a few seconds (will scope later on) but there's definitely a fast mode you can enable.

I hope they get a bump in sales over this either way. Just before Chris Avellone was (re)ripping on Obsidian management, back ~ November iirc) there were indications that came out that sales were ~ 110k copies and that they really needed to hit ~500k. Caveat: allegedly and all that.. but the whole Fig thing, so..

Too bad one needs to restart a game to check out the turn based mode.

Also, judging by forums there are still some issues with balance and some things not working (especially when it comes to speed and durations) but I guess It's expected to have some stuff to work out being a beta.

I am interested in checking it out but will probably wait a few months. Although by then there will be a ton of new games released that I will want to play. And I don't really want to restart. Sigh

That TBS video looks great. There has to be a "delay" turn and/or "guard" action.
Also at least in the first 15 minutes it doesn't show how abilities work. Do they take up movement AP? Can you attack and then move?
Obviously some abilities are considered attacks. Do they end the turn when cast? Are there some actions that require more than a turn to complete?
Will high dexterity give you the ability to attack more than once in a round?
How do the modals work or the monk "haste"?

It's a lot to balance. I image something like an arquebus vs daggers being a real... process to tweak properly. Especially curious to see how they might end up reworking the RTwP interrupt system.

edit\add: I hope Josh gets the time he needs; refining this sort of stuff is his jam. PoE2 brought a lot of TB-ish leanings and complexities to it's RTwP. The other end of the spectrum often goes RTwP because they can't be bothered to desync baked combat animations from stat scaling weapon speed (not solely this but an example of contrast in approach).

That TBS video looks great. There has to be a "delay" turn and/or "guard" action.
Also at least in the first 15 minutes it doesn't show how abilities work. Do they take up movement AP? Can you attack and then move?
Obviously some abilities are considered attacks. Do they end the turn when cast? Are there some actions that require more than a turn to complete?
Will high dexterity give you the ability to attack more than once in a round?
How do the modals work or the monk "haste"?

So to answer my own questions after having played for a half hour or so:
Attacks don't end turns so you can even move, attack and then move again.
I don't see a way to guard or delay.
The monk's swift strikes is an instant action so it doesn't prevent you from attacking.
Weapon swapping is an action so won't be able to attack the same round.
I did cast a spell or two that took more than one round but it is interesting in that the game adjusts the attack order by inserting you into the queue to where you will finish the cast. I think it is cool because I can see things like higher dex pushing you further up the queue to complete casts quicker. The same thing happened when my monk used swift strikes. More attacks were added in the queue and the next attack was moved up the queue. Pretty neat way of handling it.

I need more experience with dual wielding but it looked like you get one attack but it swings with both weapons. And I guess there are some monsters that will attack with weapon and shield in the same attack.
I would love it if there is an option for that for player characters. (or dual wielding shields or spike shield attacking like in Pathfinder)

Does the do it yourself AI stuff still work in TBS? That is the thing I have been meaning to futz with the most in POE2 so I am curious if that still works, but not enough to play it and check

I’ve played a couple hours with the TBS and absolutely love it. There are definitely a few quirks, and I’m sure it’s not properly balanced, but I wish more RPGs would offer this system.

If I could only figure out a way to hotkey ‘end turn’ my enjoyment would increase greatly.

Its in the keybindings. I haven't done it myself but I saw the streamer do it in the video posted by Recreational Villain.

Thanks, now the game is even better.

I really love turn based tactical rpgs, but obviously it seems like I’m in a small minority on this one.

Aside from just buying the games, are there any other good ways to give positive feedback to developers making some of these games/options that aren’t as well received? I’d love to see all infinity-engine type games have this option.

Still a shame PoE2 didnt do better. As with PoE1 they just keep patching.
Time for that new playthrough soon!

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/10...

Patch 5.0 Highlights

There are a host of bug fixes in the 5.0 update that you can read on our forums, but here are some of the highlights for you:

New Ship UI
An update to the UI has been implemented that will come up any time you engage with a ship on the seas that brings a more elegant way to perform ship-to-ship encounters.

Turn-Based Mode Out of Beta
Thanks to feedback from the community, we have made a lot of changes to turn-based mode to account for bugs and balance fixes and it is now in full release with the 5.0 patch.

New Story Content Added
After listening to feedback on the critical path of the game when it came to reactivity with Woedica and Eothas, so we’ve decided to go in and write new lines and get them recorded by the original actors to add more to that aspect of the game.

Anarchist Path Adjustments
Some critical path items have been moved out of Neketaka to other locations in the Deadfire to address the difficulty and length that the game had if choosing to not side with a faction at Ondra’s Mortar.

The Ultimate
The final God Challenge will be live with the 5.0 patch. This challenge, “The Ultimate” will turn on all other God Challenges, Trial of Iron, Path of the Damned, and Solo mode.

Word of mouth on turn based mode was it wasn't terribly good. I imagirlnr a game not designed for turn based plays a bit off when done in turn based, but it is still neat they did that.

Arise thread, for I have commenced PoE2 on my vanilla PS4!

Playing TBS. It's fine. Had I read this thread earlier, it wouldn't have taken me so long to realise that weapon-swapping costs an action.

So far, so good -- still on the opening island, as I spent an inordinate amount of time agonising over my character build. Running with a druggy monk.

My main gripe is the super long loading screens. You especially notice it in segmented "dungeons", eg that tavern with an upper floor -- enter tavern from outside, wait 2 minutes, go upstairs, open door, wait 2 minutes. Sheesh. It felt like playing Skyrim on the PS3.

Coming back here to say while I can see an interesting game here, the frequent CTDs and still-long loading screens are seriously putting me off. It's affecting my quest choices -- if I could kill X here and now or go somewhere else and talk to somebody, I'll just kill X now, because it keeps the game going instead of holding me up.

I've started timing the loading times and auto-reporting every CTD to Sony. These are steps on the way to abandoning the game.

I could not recommend this game on the PS4 to anyone because of the load times and technical faults, and boy am I sick of saying that about Obsidian games.

Did Obsidian do the port? Nope, Grip Digital did it.

Anyway, I've avoided the Switch port of the first game because of massive bugs. I simply think the games didn't sell enough for them to get enough budget for playtesting before the console ports. Shame.

That’s a shame to hear. They really haven’t had many buggy games in a long time.

They'll never live it down.

garion333 wrote:

Did Obsidian do the port? Nope, Grip Digital did it.

Anyway, I've avoided the Switch port of the first game because of massive bugs. I simply think the games didn't sell enough for them to get enough budget for playtesting before the console ports. Shame.

OK, I stand corrected -- sorry Obsidian.

One of the things that genuinely impressed me with The Outer Worlds was that it ran smoothly and had zero crashes, so credit where it is due.

Still, I'm sad about PoE2 bugs because a cool game lies underneath. Pity I can't take it to the PC with a cross-save!

FTR, I have persisted with the game for another few weeks.

Strangely, the thing that has pulled me through since my last post was finally deciding to check out Critical Role (a tabletop D&D podcast) and diving into the backlog of episodes. The cast of Critical Role voices all the companions in Pillars 2 and often they play the Pillars soundtrack during Critical Role sessions. Pillars 2 just kinda became my visual backdrop for listening to the podcast.

I'm sure folks in this thread already know the links between Critical Role and Pillars, but it was a huge surprise and coincidence to me...some nice synchronicity.

I'm not so sure I'll finish the story of Pillars 2 though -- there's a few new shinies stacking up n my shelf and glittering at me.

Funny, I came at the game from the opposite direction. I love Crit Role, been listening to their backlog of episodes and finally got caught up about 6 months ago. I found out they voiced characters within PoE and picked the game up, I just couldn't get into it, character and game mechanics are so foreign to me compared to D&D and Pathfinder.

Arise!

I've been trying to play the original PoE on my Switch (despite bugs, though I haven't seen any yet) and I'm simply baffled by the controls. A few hours in and I feel like I'm fighting to remember the controls more than I am playing the game.

For console folks, did it take you a while to feel comfortable?

In case you missed it in the Xbox stream this afternoon, Obsidian are making Avowed - a 3rd Person RPG (think Skyrim) set in the same world as Pillars of Eternity.

I didn't realize that was set in the Pillars universe. Very interesting.

Sure looked first person to me, not third person.

I'd much rather have PoE3. But sure, this might be better than nothing, I guess.
Except it probably guarantees they wont work on a PoE anytime soon.

Shadout wrote:

I'd much rather have PoE3. But sure, this might be better than nothing, I guess.
Except it probably guarantees they wont work on a PoE anytime soon.

PoE2 did not sell well and the director, Josh Sawyer, has multiple times called it a big financial disappointment. Spinning it off like this is probably the only way a PoE3 has any chance of happening in the future.

If it is third person a la Outer Worlds and I get to play PoE classes (especially cipher, chanter or paladin) I am sold.

Obsidian had a lot of issues with its Pillars style games. Even the campaign of Pillars 1 wasn't great. Pillars 2 was worse. But both had great class/skill systems. Tyranny should have had a better skill system on paper but it just never worked for me except for making broken characters. The campaign at least structurally, the way it was introduced and atmospherically was the best of the 3.
In spite of all that, if they had a Beneath the Stolen Lands endless dungeon DLC, I would still be playing all 3.

Or like I mentioned above, Outer Worlds with PoE world and classes = total win.

beanman101283 wrote:

Sure looked first person to me, not third person.

I’m sure there’ll be a button to press that switches it between the two

Rock Paper Shotgun article on it here

There is no way to make a Outer Worlds with PoE combat. If for no other reason than we wont have 5 characters to control.

Combat is certainly the star of the show for me in PoE. Best combat in any rtwp CPRG ever imo. And at least after the DLC in PoE, some of the best itemzation as well.
I think the world and campaign in PoE 1 was fine (somewhat less so in PoE 2, but it might just be a matter of how much you are into pirates...), at least among the best in the genre for a few decades.

Then Outer Worlds had atrocious character building, so I am not too hopeful on what this will be.