A name it has - Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Er, no spoilers...)

Yeah I'll shut up too. Sorry I just feel the need to defend myself.

EDIT: I'll bow out by pointing to this reddit thread that pretty succinctly explains the nature and scope of what my criticisms are, in case you are insane enough to want to hear more.

jamos5 wrote:

Yeah I'll shut up too. Sorry I just feel the need to defend myself.

EDIT: I'll bow out by pointing to this reddit thread that pretty succinctly explains the nature and scope of what my criticisms are, in case you are insane enough to want to hear more.

The need to defend ones position is fine. The biggest issue I see around discussions of TLJ, even here on GWJ, is that no one seems to understand that you can disagree and be fine without slinging the same, oft repeated, arguments. Agree to disagree and move on

You've been actually doing a pretty levelheaded job about defending yourself (I've read all of it), you're just in the wrong thread push over to the Spoiler thread and you'll be fine.

jamos5 wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
Spoiler:

Yep. One X-wing taking out a large and overpowered military vessel is completely unprecedented...

TBH this conversation reminds me of a close buddy of mine who has a really hard time enjoying sci-fi and super hero movies. He has a bad habit of writing whatever movie he is going to see in his mind ahead of time and then holding the film responsible for not meeting his mental expectations, which of course the movie could never possibly do.

This is a strange position to take... are you saying that I shouldn't have opinions about the film? I didn't write the film ahead of time in my mind... I'm simply examining the things that they did in the film and pointed out how some things work and how some things do not work. Just because I thought something didn't work doesn't mean I think I should have been put in charge of writing it.

And I guess I should be clear -- I found the film to be enjoyable. There were just a lot of plot holes and inconsistencies that I feel has cheapened the overall Star Wars universe, which is a major bummer.

Sorry if that came out harsher than I meant, I wasn't saying that's what you were doing, just that your complaints and arguments are similar, and I think it comes down to my feeling that "It's different than how I would have done it/what I thought it should be" is not synonymous with "it was done badly"

athros wrote:

You've been actually doing a pretty levelheaded job about defending yourself (I've read all of it), you're just in the wrong thread push over to the Spoiler thread and you'll be fine.

Thanks. I'm glad to hear that I'm not just coming across as a troll.

Although now that I've vented, I don't feel the need to post over in the spoiler thread lol. Maybe that will change after a second viewing.

I'm going to see it tomorrow afternoon, and I must say I'm really intrigued by the difference of opinion between reviewers and the fans. Can't wait!

jamos5 wrote:

Which I guess is fine for most folks, but for the Star Wars nerds (like myself) it's painful to see these flaws being accepted and even celebrated by the easygoing masses. It doesn't bode well for the future of the franchise.

Did you watch the OT with the same critical eye? How about other media in the current canon? As a Star Wars nerd unlike yourself (in opinion), I'd say the entire franchise is already well marinated in the same sort of things and has been for over 40 years.

My 7 year old got to see this before me. What is going on in the world?!?

Sorry I went into Star Wars blackout mode since I just got to see it today. Discussion seems to have died down but added the spoiler thread link just in case.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Sorry I went into Star Wars blackout mode since I just got to see it today. Discussion seems to have died down but added the spoiler thread link just in case.

Today? How the hell did you last that long?

I just saw it today. I thought it was great. I've been a star wars fan since I was little. I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Rat Boy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Sorry I went into Star Wars blackout mode since I just got to see it today. Discussion seems to have died down but added the spoiler thread link just in case.

Today? How the hell did you last that long?

2 weeks of MREs

Chaz wrote:

I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Good plan. The TLJ discourse makes me want to shove nerds into lockers.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Good plan. The TLJ discourse makes me want to shove nerds into lockers.

Between this and reading all the industry GOTY lists, I think it's safe to say that I no longer consider myself a part of the nerd/geek/whatever crowd or the gamer crowd. I'm not sure that I belong to any crowd anymore. That's probably a good thing, but it's also kind of lonely, if that makes sense?

Rat Boy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Sorry I went into Star Wars blackout mode since I just got to see it today. Discussion seems to have died down but added the spoiler thread link just in case.

Today? How the hell did you last that long?

I just saw it on NYE with most of my family (oldest kid is away).

I still haven't seen it. Confluence of family visiting and illness means we're left scrambling to find the time to go see it...

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Good plan. The TLJ discourse makes me want to shove nerds into lockers.

See this is the problem. Sure there are people on both sides that are being overly hostile, and there will always be scumbags in every corner of the internet, but as someone who didn't like TLJ I've found it to be increasingly difficult to find somewhere to have a level-headed discussion without people calling me a "fanboy" or a troll nerd or something.

There are many things to like about the film, but there are objective problems that go beyond nostalgia or fanboy glasses. Maybe once the dust settles and we gain a little perspective, we'll be able to come to some sort of non-hostile consensus.

jamos5 wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Good plan. The TLJ discourse makes me want to shove nerds into lockers.

See this is the problem. Sure there are people on both sides that are being overly hostile, and there will always be scumbags in every corner of the internet, but as someone who didn't like TLJ I've found it to be increasingly difficult to find somewhere to have a level-headed discussion without people calling me a "fanboy" or a troll nerd or something.

There are many things to like about the film, but there are objective problems that go beyond nostalgia or fanboy glasses. Maybe once the dust settles and we gain a little perspective, we'll be able to come to some sort of non-hostile consensus.

I agree jamos5 and I hope you didn't take our back-and-forth in the Spoiler thread as disrespect. I was just countering things that bothered you with my thoughts to try to give a better/different perspective. I had a LOT of issues with this movie the first time I saw it, but (for me) there was way more to like in this movie than to dislike. I don't think anyone who thinks otherwise should simple be written off as fanboys. That is way too big of a generalization.

PaladinTom wrote:
jamos5 wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Good plan. The TLJ discourse makes me want to shove nerds into lockers.

See this is the problem. Sure there are people on both sides that are being overly hostile, and there will always be scumbags in every corner of the internet, but as someone who didn't like TLJ I've found it to be increasingly difficult to find somewhere to have a level-headed discussion without people calling me a "fanboy" or a troll nerd or something.

There are many things to like about the film, but there are objective problems that go beyond nostalgia or fanboy glasses. Maybe once the dust settles and we gain a little perspective, we'll be able to come to some sort of non-hostile consensus.

I agree jamos5 and I hope you didn't take our back-and-forth in the Spoiler thread as disrespect. I was just countering things that bothered you with my thoughts to try to give a better/different perspective. I had a LOT of issues with this movie the first time I saw it, but (for me) there was way more to like in this movie than to dislike. I don't think anyone who thinks otherwise should simple be written off as fanboys. That is way too big of a generalization.

No worries. I very much enjoyed our discussion, and I should say based on your comments I am starting to come around on the film as well. There are a lot of things to like, and I expect a second viewing to bring those out. That said, the things I disliked I *really* disliked, and feel like the fanbase needs to be able to specifically articulate to Disney what those things are if we expect them to improve for future films. I'm not going to make death threats or troll people over it, but I don't feel like I should be silent on the issue either.

Chaz wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I'm not going to dive into the debate about whether it's good or not because I suspect it will just make me annoyed.

Good plan. The TLJ discourse makes me want to shove nerds into lockers.

Between this and reading all the industry GOTY lists, I think it's safe to say that I no longer consider myself a part of the nerd/geek/whatever crowd or the gamer crowd. I'm not sure that I belong to any crowd anymore. That's probably a good thing, but it's also kind of lonely, if that makes sense?

Welcome to the 'I like what I like and don't like what I don't like, and don't care whether other people like or dislike what I like or dislike' crowd!

PaladinTom wrote:

I don't think anyone who thinks otherwise should simple be written off as fanboys. That is way too big of a generalization.

Of course not, there are plenty of other, more specific, reasons to write off someone that doesn't agree with you!

Mixolyde wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:

I don't think anyone who thinks otherwise should simple be written off as fanboys. That is way too big of a generalization.

Of course not, there are plenty of other, more specific, reasons to write off someone that doesn't agree with you! ;-)

I don't have a problem with people discussing problematic stuff or things that maybe they missed the understanding of or things they did not like. Personally, I really don't like that hyperspace takes minutes now thanks to TFA but still love the movie.

It is the fact that some people (not really talking about anyone in particular on GWJ just internet people) immediately cry "lazy writing" or "bad writing" or "Disney sux" because they did not like a specific part. THAT is what a lot of pushback against negative people is about.

If a person wants to have a discussion about how or why the bombers do what they do, that's great! When people give their explanation or ideas and a person does not agree with them, fine! That is fun fan stuff BUT if you say it is a plot hole or something lazy, or that makes this film bad then that is just silly.

(Try typing all that without any spoilers since that is the thread we are in!)

karmajay wrote:

(Try typing all that without any spoilers since that is the thread we are in!)

I think you did a good job, Karmajay, so major kudos.
Also, you made me genuinely laugh out loud, Mixolyde.

Honestly, this is where I'm at and it's kinda why I've pulled back on the whole discussion (aside from that hilarious comic I just posted in the spoiler thread). I really liked it and enjoyed it for what it was, despite a few (one?) minor gripe. The film spoke to me on so many levels. And the vibe I've been getting lately is a whole bunch of "you're WRONG" which has kinda turned me off.

Eleima wrote:

The film spoke to me on so many levels. And the vibe I've been getting lately is a whole bunch of "you're WRONG" which has kinda turned me off.

I'm with you there. I don't mind some lively discussion, but when it gets so heated or people get so passionate about how "objectively bad" it was, I don't need to read that.

Reddit has an amusing meme that applies to some of the more outlandish opinions I've read about TLJ, but it applies to video games: LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE.

Typo in an item description? LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE.
Player can't murder children in shooter game? LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE
Low resolution texture in obscure location almost nobody would ever see? LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE

I guess for Star Wars, it would be LITERALLY UNWATCHABLE.

BadKen wrote:

I guess for Star Wars, it would be LITERALLY UNWATCHABLE.

Nah, don't change it. By calling it LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE you underline just how silly some of these criticisms are.

But it's true... You can't play The Last Jedi! Come on!

slazev wrote:

But it's true... You can't play The Last Jedi! Come on!

Totally scripted. No controls whatsoever. I might as well be watching a movie. TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT. ZERO STARS!

LouZiffer wrote:
slazev wrote:

But it's true... You can't play The Last Jedi! Come on!

Totally scripted. No controls whatsoever. I might as well be watching a movie. TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT. ZERO STARS!

It's basically a cut scene simulator.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
LouZiffer wrote:
slazev wrote:

But it's true... You can't play The Last Jedi! Come on!

Totally scripted. No controls whatsoever. I might as well be watching a movie. TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT. ZERO STARS!

It's basically a cut scene simulator.

Graphics are great, though. Characters look very lifelike.

I dunno, Adam Driver has that uncanny valley thing going on.