NFL 2016: Playoffs: Divisional

Cousins also led the league in Pro Wrestling style outbursts at the end of games for the second year in a row. So that's gotta be worth some $ in the offseason.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Brady
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Brees
Newton
Rodgers
Carr
Ryan
Rivers
Luck
Palmer

That is top 11, and then you have the next tier guys like Cousins, Flacco, Manning, Dalton, etc

What's amazing about that list is that 3 (most likely) Hall of Famers and the league MVP are the ones left in the playoffs. QB league indeed.

jowner wrote:

Tony Romo on a team that doesn't get him massacred is better than Kirk Cousins for the next two years.

I'm kinda lazy and only really pay attention to the Packers so I'm not really sure what team that fits. I'm excited for the Romo sweep stakes.

Could Denver upgrade their line and trade for him? Rivers needs to get traded also.

Romo has played only 5 games in the last 2 years, and went 6 TDs to 7 INTs in those games. He'll be 37 in April.

I don't think he should be anyone's Plan A at this point.

Ego Man wrote:
Enix wrote:

The fact that Cousins is a top 15 QB says less about Cousins and more about the rest of the league, tbh.

Not sure where you get your ideas.

Here and here and here and here.

The last one was written before Cousin laid an egg (300+ passing yards, 0 TD passes) in a terrible MNF game at home against Carolina.

He's also pretty bad in the red zone. If you sort this chart by completion percentage, you'll find him between Trevor Siemian and Jameis Winston. Inside the 10, he's down there with Bryce Petty and Scott Tolzein, who I don't even think is a real guy.

If Can Newton can make it to the Super Bowl with Ted Ginn and the corpse of Kelvin Benjamin, Cousins should at least be able to make the damned playoffs with Jackson, Garcon and the rest of those guys. 8-7-1? That's the very definition of average!

*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:

Tony Romo on a team that doesn't get him massacred is better than Kirk Cousins for the next two years.

I'm kinda lazy and only really pay attention to the Packers so I'm not really sure what team that fits. I'm excited for the Romo sweep stakes.

Could Denver upgrade their line and trade for him? Rivers needs to get traded also.

Romo has played only 5 games in the last 2 years, and went 6 TDs to 7 INTs in those games. He'll be 37 in April.

I don't think he should be anyone's Plan A at this point.

It was much less of an endorsement of Romo and more putting Cousins down.

I'm with Enix.

Cousins after Packers game. Redskins have to sign him.

Cousins after Giants must win game.... That pick was brutal.

I would love to see a GM put together a team that is defined by the plug and play old QB.

I'm not sure how you do it on the offensive side besides having a good/decent line. Defensive side just be reeeeaallly good.

Trade for a twilight qb every 2-3 years and try to get him on a decent deal that doesn't hamstring your cap.

It could work in theory only problem is lining up that qb you target.

Brees/Romo/Rivers could of done the fake Manning job last year.

If anything I guess the Cards are kinda trying to do it but Carson is paper mache + maybe they didn't invest in the line?

Enix wrote:

If Can Newton can make it to the Super Bowl with Ted Ginn and the corpse of Kelvin Benjamin, Cousins should at least be able to make the damned playoffs with Jackson, Garcon and the rest of those guys. 8-7-1? That's the very definition of average!

I bet Cousins would have liked having the league's 6th ranked defense. And I wonder how far Cam would have gotten with the 28th ranked D.

Not to oversell Cousins, but 8-7-1 with one of the league's most dogsh*t defenses (they were ranked 28th in 2015 too) and with the league's 21st rushing attack, I mean, I wouldn't look down on that so much. Cousins and the rest of the passing game is all that team had going for it.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Brady
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Brees
Newton
Rodgers
Carr
Ryan
Rivers
Luck
Palmer

That is top 11, and then you have the next tier guys like Cousins, Flacco, Manning, Dalton, etc

In my opinion, Cousins is not a top 10 quarterback, but is in the top 20. Some team is going to overpay him and hamstring their cap and have some nice mediocre 7-10 win seasons where they go nowhere and in 3 years they try to get out of the deal.

Is that a list you got from somewhere or just yours?

This is the 2016 season

1 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons QB 117.7
2 Tom Brady New England Patriots QB 108.7
3 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers QB 104.9
4 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB 104.8
5 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints QB 101.7
6 Sam Bradford Minnesota Vikings QB 99.3
7 Kirk Cousins Washington Redskins QB 97.2
8 Derek Carr Oakland Raiders QB 96.7
9 Andrew Luck Indianapolis Colts QB 96.4
10 Marcus Mariota Tennessee Titans QB 95.6

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

If Can Newton can make it to the Super Bowl with Ted Ginn and the corpse of Kelvin Benjamin, Cousins should at least be able to make the damned playoffs with Jackson, Garcon and the rest of those guys. 8-7-1? That's the very definition of average!

I bet Cousins would have liked having the league's 6th ranked defense. And I wonder how far Cam would have gotten with the 28th ranked D.

Not to oversell Cousins, but 8-7-1 with one of the league's most dogsh*t defenses (they were ranked 28th in 2015 too) and with the league's 21st rushing attack, I mean, I wouldn't look down on that so much. Cousins and the rest of the passing game is all that team had going for it.

Well, the Panthers did go 6-10 this year, so ...

Besides, comparing Cousins and Newton isn't exactly the most apt comparison due to Cam being so much different from the rest of the league. He takes more hits and does more on the ground, especially in the red zone, than anyone.

Cousins is a pocket passer, the better comparison would be a Brady, Manning or Palmer. He's old school, Cam's new school. I'd prefer new school over, say, Flacco. Flacco can clearly get you a ring, but the stars have to align with health, defense, special teams and a hot streak.

I'm not actually agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, I think there's reason to believe Cousins can be a legit QB, but there's also plenty of bad tape. Red Zone performance is crucial in the NFL and I would probably stay away from him for that reason. He still makes boneheaded turnovers, but he's worked on that from years ago and isn't the flaming hot Bortles-esque INT mess anymore. Browns, 49ers, Texans, Bears, Bills (maybe), Vikings (maybe), Jets, and Jaguars all would be improved by Cousins.

Gumbie wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Brady
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Brees
Newton
Rodgers
Carr
Ryan
Rivers
Luck
Palmer

That is top 11, and then you have the next tier guys like Cousins, Flacco, Manning, Dalton, etc

In my opinion, Cousins is not a top 10 quarterback, but is in the top 20. Some team is going to overpay him and hamstring their cap and have some nice mediocre 7-10 win seasons where they go nowhere and in 3 years they try to get out of the deal.

Is that a list you got from somewhere or just yours?

This is the 2016 season

1 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons QB 117.7
2 Tom Brady New England Patriots QB 108.7
3 Aaron Rodgers Green Bay Packers QB 104.9
4 Dak Prescott Dallas Cowboys QB 104.8
5 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints QB 101.7
6 Sam Bradford Minnesota Vikings QB 99.3
7 Kirk Cousins Washington Redskins QB 97.2
8 Derek Carr Oakland Raiders QB 96.7
9 Andrew Luck Indianapolis Colts QB 96.4
10 Marcus Mariota Tennessee Titans QB 95.6

I just looked up a starting QB list and began writing ones down that I think have proven to be better than Cousins and stopped at 11. No particular order.

Where is your list from? I assume FO or something like that, it would be interesting to have a three year average in the rating as I think that is more accurate to determine a good player than a one year window. For example I did not include Prescott because I don't think one year is enough to make a decision.

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

If Can Newton can make it to the Super Bowl with Ted Ginn and the corpse of Kelvin Benjamin, Cousins should at least be able to make the damned playoffs with Jackson, Garcon and the rest of those guys. 8-7-1? That's the very definition of average!

I bet Cousins would have liked having the league's 6th ranked defense. And I wonder how far Cam would have gotten with the 28th ranked D.

Not to oversell Cousins, but 8-7-1 with one of the league's most dogsh*t defenses (they were ranked 28th in 2015 too) and with the league's 21st rushing attack, I mean, I wouldn't look down on that so much. Cousins and the rest of the passing game is all that team had going for it.

Your final FO DVOA defensive ranks for 2016, remaining playoff teams only:

Pittsburgh: 11th
New England: 16th
Green Bay: 20th
Atlanta: 27th

I agree that DC's D is terrible. But you've got to score more than 15 points in Week 15 at home against a defense that was without its best player (Kuechly). That's not on Ryan Kerrigan.

I think Legion's comparison of Cousins to Andy Dalton seems solid in that they're guys who can have success when surrounded by lots of talent. I don't think Cousins would be successful in a place like San Francisco (which arguably has the worst skill position players in the league), and I don't think Dalton would be successful in that environment either.

Enix wrote:

But you've got to score more than 15 points in Week 15 at home against a defense that was without its best player (Kuechly). That's not on Ryan Kerrigan.

Well, you're not wrong there. There's a level of inconsistency there and it reared its head at some rather poor times, but I think the overall season body of work was largely positive.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I don't think Cousins would be successful in a place like San Francisco (which arguably has the worst skill position players in the league)

ssh bby that's all gettin fixed dont worry

49ers not getting a Packers GM guy. Sorry, Legion.

One more Packers guy left! It can still happen!

garion333 wrote:

49ers not getting a Packers GM guy. Sorry, Legion.

One more Packers guy left! It can still happen!

I'm not surprised with Wolf pulling out, because everything rumored and leaked seemed to indicate that Gutekunst was the front runner for the spot, or at least one of them. It feels to me like it's going to be either Gutekunst or Terry McDonough.

I guess Jerry Rice needs a check badly..

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news...

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

But you've got to score more than 15 points in Week 15 at home against a defense that was without its best player (Kuechly). That's not on Ryan Kerrigan.

Well, you're not wrong there. ...

C'mon, Legion. Turn that sentence around. You can say it! Well, you're right there.

If Kirk Cousins wants to be the next Drew Brees (great numbers, missed the playoffs in each of the past three years, hasn't sniffed the NFC title game since winning the Super Bowl seven years ago), Cousins has to win something first. I don't see that guy.

Enix wrote:

If Kirk Cousins wants to be the next Drew Brees (great numbers, missed the playoffs in each of the past three years, hasn't sniffed the NFC title game since winning the Super Bowl seven years ago), Cousins has to win something first. I don't see that guy.

Cousins has only been a full-blown starter for 2 years. He's got 41 career starts. If he were Drew Brees, he'd still have a full season in a San Diego Chargers uniform ahead of him.

I'm not ready to consider him as having reached his ceiling just yet.

You know, considering you've spent the last few years watching Blake Bortles, Blaine Gabbert, and the whiffs of what used to be Colin Kaepernick, I'm beginning to think you've really just got some form of QB-based PTSD.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

You know, considering you've spent the last few years watching Blake Bortles, Blaine Gabbert, and the whiffs of what used to be Colin Kaepernick, I'm beginning to think you've really just got some form of QB-based PTSD.

David Garrard is only 38, and his knee has to be healed by now.

Plus, Jeff George is taking calls.

Would it be some kind of Fresno State jackpot if someone could coax David Carr out of retirement to back up Derek? Would Legion's head explode?

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

If Kirk Cousins wants to be the next Drew Brees (great numbers, missed the playoffs in each of the past three years, hasn't sniffed the NFC title game since winning the Super Bowl seven years ago), Cousins has to win something first. I don't see that guy.

Cousins has only been a full-blown starter for 2 years. He's got 41 career starts. If he were Drew Brees, he'd still have a full season in a San Diego Chargers uniform ahead of him.

I'm not ready to consider him as having reached his ceiling just yet.

For context, here's what Drew Brees was doing after his 43rd career start.

I think the story even refers to him as "Pro Bowler Drew Brees."

bighoppa wrote:

Would it be some kind of Fresno State jackpot if someone could coax David Carr Trent Dilfer out of retirement to back up Derek? Would Legion's head explode?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
bighoppa wrote:

Would it be some kind of Fresno State jackpot if someone could coax David Carr SUPER BOWL WINNING Trent Dilfer out of retirement to back up Derek? Would Legion's head explode?

garion333 wrote:

"Please pay for my autographs at the big signing coming up in Houston. I'm a good now, honest."

bighoppa wrote:

Would it be some kind of Fresno State jackpot if someone could coax David Carr out of retirement to back up Derek? Would Legion's head explode?

Back during Derek's draft, David was putting it out there that he would go backup Derek anywhere that Derek got drafted.

I thought it was a good idea.

Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:

If Kirk Cousins wants to be the next Drew Brees (great numbers, missed the playoffs in each of the past three years, hasn't sniffed the NFC title game since winning the Super Bowl seven years ago), Cousins has to win something first. I don't see that guy.

Cousins has only been a full-blown starter for 2 years. He's got 41 career starts. If he were Drew Brees, he'd still have a full season in a San Diego Chargers uniform ahead of him.

I'm not ready to consider him as having reached his ceiling just yet.

For context, here's what Drew Brees was doing after his 43rd career start.

I think the story even refers to him as "Pro Bowler Drew Brees."

Pro Bowl alternate Kirk Cousins!

garion333 wrote:

The word that jumped out at me was "again". When exactly was the first time?

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

The word that jumps out at me was "again". When exactly was the first time?

The day he was born and he regretted it ever since.