A place to discuss any changes you've had to make due to the changing political climate in the US. Also a place to post news articles backing up your concerns.
Alt-Right Trolls Use Chicago Kidnapping to Spread Lies About Black Lives Matter
Don't think this story was posted here...Oh wait!
For conservatives and Trump supporters who feel unsafe, I'm wondering: what exactly would need to be done for you to feel safe in this country?
Racial minorities, women and LGBTQ people generally have concrete reasons to feel unsafe: the president-elect, Congress, and many state and local governments have either passed or proposed many policies that are specifically designed to harm them. For example, HB1 and its ilk, voting ID laws, stop and frisk, abortion restrictions, etc. Also, Trump has a history of saying many offensive things about these groups, admitted on tape to sexually assaulting women, and has deliberately created an atmosphere where such groups feel less safe ("build the wall!", claiming he'd pay the legal fees of a supporter if they decked a protestor, etc.)
But for conservatives and Trump supporters, your political party now has control over nearly every part of government in the country with the exception of a minority of state and local governments. This has largely been the case for many years now. And if you're a straight white male in particular, people like you make up the vast majority of both government and corporate management everywhere in the country and have for basically all of American history. If these people, who you voted for and support, aren't making you feel safe, what would it take?
I could understand if you're poor and concerned about oppression by the rich (in which case, I'm not sure why you supported Trump), but otherwise what exactly are you afraid of?
bekkilyn wrote:I am as sympathetic to a Trump supporter's feelings as I am to the feelings of a Nazi in the middle of Israel.
Wow. This thread is going downhill fast.
As someone who's being legislatively targeted by several state governments and a federal district court, should being sympathetic to someone who used their political power to enable the agenda of Trump and his party be a priority of mine?
Seems like when lots of us are facing direct threats to our ability to exist, that's a big demand.
I see that the response to not liking being associated with neo-Nazis is not to reconsider the paths, policies, and rhetoric that made the right so appealing to neo-Nazis, but to smarmily feign umbrage when someone points it out.
Nomad wrote:bekkilyn wrote:I am as sympathetic to a Trump supporter's feelings as I am to the feelings of a Nazi in the middle of Israel.
Wow. This thread is going downhill fast.
As someone who's being legislatively targeted by several state governments and a federal district court, should being sympathetic to someone who used their political power to enable the agenda of Trump and his party be a priority of mine?
Seems like when lots of us are facing direct threats to our ability to exist, that's a big demand.
I'm not sure why sympathy would need to be prioritized. It is not a finite resource. We can have sympathy for an unlimited number of people, even ones we may not agree with. Demonization and polarization of differing groups of thought is an enormous problem in our country, and it seems to be getting worse by the day. Liberals are not the devil. The GOP is not the Nazi party.
Sympathy and civility do not require acceptance of the person's beliefs as our own.
That said, I cannot even pretend to understand the stress you (and others) are under and do not want to trivialize your experiences.
The GOP is not the Nazi party.
Bannon (Trump's Chief of Staff I think), being a pretty strong white nationalist, would tend to argue against yourpoint.
Sympathy and civility do not require acceptance of the person's beliefs as our own.
Do you realize you are asking people to be sympathetic and civil to those that truly believe they have no right to exist?
That said, I cannot even pretend to understand the stress you (and others) are under and do not want to trivialize your experiences.
Then I would suggest not asking them to think that a political position which denies them the basic rights which are afforded currently to white males only is acceptable.
As long as you continue to make false equivalencies, you'll probably experience a bunch of backlash. It's a true sense of privilege when you think being unsafe in one particular area is the same as being unsafe everywhere because the system is built to make you unsafe.
I never made any claims of equivalence other than we both have safety concerns as a result of the election. You and others are the ones assigning that to me simply because I brought up an instance where a minority group was the attacker and not the victim. They are not the exact same, but they both fit the concept of feeling unsafe as a result of the election.
OzymandiasAV wrote:Nope. - Certis
Good to know it's ok to support making fun of people with disabilities as long as you're polite and don't use bad language!
Yeah I'm confused and dissapointed it was moderated out a second time. Not ok.
Welcome to D&D, same false equivalent BS moderation as P&C. Bad faith arguments galore, but if you get upset about it, you better simmer down.
You will be expected to share and take in opinions with the assumption that ideas are worthy of discussion, whether or not you agree with them.
Telling anyone (while swearing at them) to take their opinions elsewhere is against the CoC. Editing your post after being moderated for the purposes of poking the moderator in the eye is just poor form. I'm happy to take all kinds of abuse, it comes with the gig, but that's my limit.
The issue is not purely bad language, but bad language directed at another community member and trying to shout them down. It's nothing to do with whether someone is right, wrong, or painfully, obviously wrong.
If someone has breached the CoC please flag the posts or PM Dee, Hypation or myself. If you'd like to discuss further feel free to drop us a PM. I'd rather not drag the thread further off topic.
Sympathy and civility do not require acceptance of the person's beliefs as our own.Do you realize you are asking people to be sympathetic and civil to those that truly believe they have no right to exist?
Voting for Trump does not mean that person believes others have no right to exist.
OzymandiasAV wrote:Nope. - Certis
Good to know it's ok to support making fun of people with disabilities as long as you're polite and don't use bad language!
Who supported making fun of disabilities? I pointed out a source that shows Trump wasn't doing that himself. How does that mean I'm supportive of what I just showed to be false? It's unbelievable how far some of you will twist something in order to paint me as the devil.
This conversation is off topic. Please move on.
Dr.Ghastly wrote:OzymandiasAV wrote:Nope. - Certis
Good to know it's ok to support making fun of people with disabilities as long as you're polite and don't use bad language!
Who supported making fun of disabilities? I pointed out a source that shows Trump wasn't doing that himself. How does that mean I'm supportive of what I just showed to be false? It's unbelievable how far some of you will twist something in order to paint me as the devil.
This pained stage play at offence is getting more than a bit tired, MattDaddy. You're not acting in good faith and ignoring the context of the thread to score points and feign injury. It's played out, I'd like you to move on from this thread so we can get it back on track.
I pointed out a source that shows Trump wasn't doing that himself. How does that mean I'm supportive of what I just showed to be false? It's unbelievable how far some of you will twist something in order to paint me as the devil.
You pointed out a completely biased source that literally would say anything to paint Trump in a good light. That's not showing something to be false.
That's a biased source trying to put the right spin on the fact that Trump is so stubborn and proud that he couldn't admit he was wrong when he said that he saw "thousands and thousands" of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey after 9/11. There is literally no record of what he claimed (and repeatedly doubled down on).
And even if I accept that Trump has a history of making fun of people like that, the only thing that really says about him is that he has far more in common with a bratty eight year-old than he does with being the leader of the free world.
mudbunny wrote:Sympathy and civility do not require acceptance of the person's beliefs as our own.Do you realize you are asking people to be sympathetic and civil to those that truly believe they have no right to exist?
Voting for Trump does not mean that person believes others have no right to exist.
Forgive me, I exaggerated.
Voting for Trump (and the rest of the GoP) means you are comfortable with electing people who believe that all mexicans are rapists and thieves, who believe that homosexuals are abominations in the eyes of God who should be forced to act straight through the application of various therapies which have been thoroughly discredited, who believe that people whose sexuality *or* gender does not fit within the acceptable norms as defined by their bible are no better than pedophiles, who find it acceptable to beat the crap out of those who disagree with you, who feel that physical assault of women is acceptable if you are rich and/or powerful enough.
I could go on, but I think you get my point.
The election of Trump has placed a very real target upon people who are not just random faces in the crowd, but people you interact with on this very forum! And you think they should simply accept those political opinions as if we were discussing cake vs pie?
Never mind. I missed that Certyis has asked MattDaddy to no longer participate in this thread.
There are enough ongoing hate crimes being committed that the New York Times has started a weekly column, "This Week in Hate", to chronicle and draw attention to the issue.
The headline of this week's edition is A Black Transgender Man Attacked on the Subway.
Off topic. - Certis
Off topic. - Certis
MattDaddy has requested I ban him from D&D which ... I think we can do now. Either way, he will no longer be participating in this forum section.
SixteenBlue, while I appreciate your feedback, I'd prefer in PM over off-topic snark in threads.
Back on topic, please.
Being a white CIS male, I don't really have a lot to worry about. However, have any of you heard about what's going on in Whitefish Montana?
Neo Nazi rally on the 15th, specifically called "March on Jews."
So the "march" is open carry. There's a counter-protest planned but the town is urging people not to counter it since they're afraid violence will break out.
The Montana Human Rights Network is asking people to donate for every minute this hate march lasts with the proceeds going towards security and programs to increase awareness of human rights.
That's the best way to do it. I think the Germans started, or maybe the Brits, by raising money when Neo-Nazis marched. One march I read about even marked the route with the money totals that would be raised every hundred meters or so...
I would think that if there is any reason for a white male to feel unsafe in Trump's America it is because his antics, supporters, and rhetoric have created distrust and fear based on violent white supremacy. There are more than a few black folks I know that carry legal guns now because of it.
I would think that if there is any reason for a white male to feel unsafe in Trump's America it is because his antics, supporters, and rhetoric have created distrust and fear based on violent white supremacy. There are more than a few black folks I know that carry legal guns now because of it.
More than a few people make similar statements about black males. They are called racists...
because they are racists.
Really? Which Presidential candidate campaigned on a Black Supremacy platform and was supported by organized, violent Black Supremacists?
Really? Which Presidential candidate campaigned on a Black Supremacy platform and was supported by organized, violent Black Supremacists?
Might want to go back and read my post again. I don't think I referenced any presidential candidate. People are always trying to find excuses for rascim.
I would think that if there is any reason for a black male to feel unsafe in Random Negative Racial Stereotype's America it is because his antics, supporters, and rhetoric have created distrust and fear based on violent black activity. There are more than a few white folks I know that carry legal guns now because of it.
Both statements are racist.
Paleocon did, and with reason. While it's true that the *charge* of racism is often tossed around, it's also true that one of the parties in the US has a constituency of racists; has championed laws that work to devalue the participation of non-Whites; and has fielded a candidate who has not only "dog-whistled" racist issues, but explicitly brought them out and has also maintained outright White Supremacists as his associates and even staffers.
It's unrealistic to argue that both sides are in the same situation as regards racism. There is no national Black Supremacist movement. There is no Black KKK. Obama had no one with a history of supporting Black Supremacy on his staff. But the opposites of these are all true. And Blacks and other minorities are right to be scared in this environment, while Whites are more powerful today than they have been since the 60's.
The fear of violent Black racism pales in comparison to the everyday racism - violent and otherwise - that Blacks deal with every day of their lives in America. It's not racist to acknowledge this.
Paleocon did, and with reason. While it's true that the *charge* of racism is often tossed around, it's also true that one of the parties in the US has a constituency of racists; has championed laws that work to devalue the participation of non-Whites; and has fielded a candidate who has not only "dog-whistled" racist issues, but explicitly brought them out and has also maintained outright White Supremacists as his associates and even staffers.
It's unrealistic to argue that both sides are in the same situation as regards racism. There is no national Black Supremacist movement. There is no Black KKK. Obama had no one with a history of supporting Black Supremacy on his staff. But the opposites of these are all true. And Blacks and other minorities are right to be scared in this environment, while Whites are more powerful today than they have been since the 60's.
The fear of violent Black racism pales in comparison to the everyday racism - violent and otherwise - that Blacks deal with every day of their lives in America.
I never said both sides are in the same situation regarding racism. Please go back and reread my posts.
Nomad, I'm having a hard time figuring out what your point is.
Nomad, I'm having a hard time figuring out what your point is.
Posts like Paleocon's are racist and should be seen as such.
Certis wrote:Nomad, I'm having a hard time figuring out what your point is.
Posts like Paleocon's are racist and should be seen as such.
Racist toward white people?
Nomad wrote:Certis wrote:Nomad, I'm having a hard time figuring out what your point is.
Posts like Paleocon's are racist and should be seen as such.
Racist toward white people?
Racism is racism.
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