[Discussion] European Politics Discussion

European Politics discussion

croaker wrote:
Prederick wrote:

NO WAY did he cite MLK. NO WAY.

Marvin?

MLK was British?!?!?!

IMAGE(https://media3.giphy.com/media/0NwSQpGY6ipgOSt8LL/200.gif)

Sorbicol wrote:

He is a man utterly without shame or humility. You have to remember that even now, his entire world view is that he's right and everyone else is wrong.

And yet he's leaving (eventually) and not organizing a coup (that we know of).

He has a bream, folks.

A man resigning behind a podium that says "Getting on With the Job"

This really is The Thick of It in real life, isn't it?

As Sorbicol noted though, I'm hearing that there wasn't a hint of "I'm sorry" in his resignation speech, mostly "I was never wrong and you're all dumb."

Chairman_Mao wrote:

He has a bream, folks.

We all knew there was something fishy about him.

CaptainCrowbar wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

He has a bream, folks.

We all knew there was something fishy about him.

Clearly he's full of carp.

What baffles me is that there are people for whom it wasn't blatantly obvious that the current clustergupp....y
clusterscup?
...utter mess (giving up on trying to stuff a fish in there)
was going to be the result of BJ getting into power, even back in the pro-Leave campaign days.

When you say people there not being aware of Johnson’s characteristics? Who are you talking about?

Are you talking about normal low information members of the public? Or are you talking about the actively misinformed by the right wing press (and the BBC by extension)? Or are you talking about the Conservative MPs? Or are you talking about the Conservative party members?

All of them have different reasons for putting him in charge.

DoveBrown wrote:

When you say people there not being aware of Johnson’s characteristics? Who are you talking about?

Apart from the really quite stupid (and depressingly, there are great many of them in the UK Electorate), I think the most depressing thing out of all of this is the number of people fully aware of who Johnson is and exactly what sort of personality he is, but are happy not to challenge it as it apparently - or at least used to - win votes.

It does make you appreciate just how bad he is to make them want to boot him out.

Indeed, though I mostly blame First Past the Post for this. As a system it forces the electorate into lesser evil decisions all the time. Answering my own questions from above.

1) In 2019, Low information voters were acclimatised to Johnson being a fun chap (through media appearances and the like), they are low information so didn’t really know him.
2) He’s a creature of the right wing press and they like him.
3) The 2016 to 2019 period was rather traumatic for the MPs. The problem was Brexit, it’s a dumb idea. The new leader had to be someone who supported it. If they supported it in good faith, they were an idiot who couldn’t be put in charge. Which only left mendacious chancers like Johnson. After he was elected leader, all those who opposed him on character grounds were purged and lost their positions before the 2019 general election.
4) The membership were given the choice between Johnson and Hunt. I can’t see why anyone thought Hunt would do anything.

Having a PR system like Single Transferable Vote in Multimember constituencies would avoid all the above, except the low information voters maybe.

Italian politics, Italianing.

The Italian government is close to collapse after the 5-Star Movement said it would boycott a crucial confidence vote in parliament, prompting calls for early elections.

Giuseppe Conte, the former prime minister who leads the populist party, said the funds set aside for a cost of living support package were insufficient and that his senators could not support the bill on Thursday.

“The scenario has changed, we need a different phase,” he told reporters after failing to reach a compromise during talks with the incumbent prime minister Mario Draghi earlier on Wednesday.

“We are ready to support the government but not to sign a blank bill. Whoever accuses us of irresponsibility needs to look in their own backyard.”

Conte has been threatening to pull the 5-Star Movement, which has lost half of its support since emerging as the biggest party in Italy in the 2018 general elections, from Draghi’s broad coalition for weeks.

Draghi, the former European Central Bank chief who was brought in to lead Italy out of the coronavirus pandemic and salvage its economy, said on Tuesday that the government could not survive without the 5-Star Movement while stressing that he would not accept ultimatums.

“A government with ultimatums doesn’t work, at that point it loses its reason for existing,” he added.

Parliamentarians also need to vote on sending more support, including military aid, to Ukraine. The 5-Star Movement has long voiced its opposition to sending arms to the war-torn country.

There have been calls for early elections from coalition and opposition parties in the event of a government collapse.

Matteo Salvini, leader of the far-right League, said the “Italian people should have their say”, while his far-right counterpart Giorgia Meloni, whose Brothers of Italy party was the only one to stay out of Draghi’s coalition, called for immediate elections. Brothers of Italy currently leads in opinion polls.

Enrico Letta, leader of the centre-left Democratic party, said earlier on Wednesday: “If the government falls, we vote.”

Italy’s next general elections are due to be held next spring. It is unusual for a national vote to take place in the autumn.

IMAGE(https://forum.quartertothree.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/0/8030316b1f4aa93f42c3a39e7a8b74f20f8771f9.jpeg)

Veloxi wrote:

IMAGE(https://forum.quartertothree.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/0/8030316b1f4aa93f42c3a39e7a8b74f20f8771f9.jpeg)

Hell that would make me vote conservative for the first time in my life!

Veloxi wrote:

IMAGE(https://forum.quartertothree.com/uploads/default/original/3X/8/0/8030316b1f4aa93f42c3a39e7a8b74f20f8771f9.jpeg)

Had to look that one up

Never read the books. Better pic as I had no idea what I was looking at.

IMAGE(https://i1.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/ook-paulkidby.jpg?fit=475%2C%209999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C293px)

Also found this one:

IMAGE(https://forum.quartertothree.com/uploads/default/original/3X/2/9/297ec4bcdca5d2c977131c851047944e41c19577.jpeg)

JC wrote:

Had to look that one up

Never read the books. Better pic as I had no idea what I was looking at.

IMAGE(https://i1.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/ook-paulkidby.jpg?fit=475%2C%209999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C293px)

Oh dude go read them, they're amaaaaaaaaaaazing.

Veloxi wrote:

Also found this one:

IMAGE(https://forum.quartertothree.com/uploads/default/original/3X/2/9/297ec4bcdca5d2c977131c851047944e41c19577.jpeg)

Tory party members would fall over themselves to vote him in. Let's got give them ideas.

*Italianing intensifies*

Mario Draghi has confirmed his resignation as Italy’s prime minister after an attempt to salvage his broad coalition failed when three key parties snubbed a confidence vote, paving the way for snap elections that could take place as early as late September.

Backed by a groundswell of public support, the former European Central Bank chief had attempted to continue his administration on condition that his alliance “rebuild a pact of trust” that would enable it to work together to overcome huge challenges over the coming months.

Draghi formally handed his resignation to President Sergio Mattarella on Thursday morning and it was accepted.

However, the populist Five Star Movement (M5S), Matteo Salvini’s far-right League and Silvio Berlusconi’s Forza Italia did not participate in a confidence vote in the senate on Thursday night that essentially called for parties to approve a spirit of cooperation.

The political crisis was triggered last week after M5S boycotted a vote on a €26bn (£22bn package) designed to help Italians tackle inflation and energy costs, arguing it was insufficient. The party was also unhappy that the package contained a provision to build a huge waste incinerator plant in Rome.

The League and Forza Italia had called for a new Draghi-led government, but without M5S, while demanding a cabinet reshuffle. M5S was annoyed that Draghi had not embraced the policy priorities presented to him in its “nine-point” plan, including a basic income and green homes bonus scheme.

Draghi’s resignation comes despite calls for him to remain in post, including from world leaders who see him as fundamental to not only ensuring stability in Italy but as a partner in facing the challenges of Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Prederick wrote:

*Italianing intensifies*

*INTENSIFYING*

When the far right took power in Ladispoli, a beach town near Rome, in 2017, ending 20 years of leftwing administration, among its priorities was naming a square after Giorgio Almirante, a minister in Benito Mussolini’s dictatorship and founder of the neofascist Italian Social Movement (MSI).

Protests from anti-fascist groups failed to thwart the plan, and in 2019 the nameplate was unveiled during a ceremony that included a blessing from the priest of the church on the same square. Almirante was described by mayor Alessandro Grando, who won a second term in June, as “the father of Italian rightwing socialism and point of reference for many Italians”.

Now many voters in Ladispoli and across Italy are looking towards Giorgia Meloni, founder of Brothers of Italy, a descendant of MSI, as their point of reference as the country gears up for snap elections on 25 September.

“Italians want a radical, epochal change, and we need it to come through a democratic process,” said Carlo Morelli, a former leftwing voter whose allegiance now lies with Brothers of Italy. “I think Meloni is the right person to bring about that change.”

Meloni, 45, could be about to fulfil her aspiration of becoming Italy’s first female prime minister. Her political party has gone from barely scraping 4% of the vote in the 2018 general elections to being the most popular in Italy, edging further up in surveys published on Friday after the collapse of Mario Draghi’s government.

Orbáns gonna Orbán

Hungary’s far-right prime minister, Viktor Orbán, has lashed out against the “mixing” of European and non-European races, in a speech that immediately drew outrage from opposition parties and European politicians.

“We [Hungarians] are not a mixed race … and we do not want to become a mixed race,” said Orbán on Saturday. He added that countries where European and non-Europeans mingle were “no longer nations”.

Orbán has been making similar claims for years, but these comments were couched in stark far-right terms.

Katalin Cseh, an MEP from the opposition Momentum party, said she was appalled by the prime minister’s speech. “His statements recall a time I think we would all like to forget. They really show the true colours of the regime,” she said.

He will, of course, be speaking at CPAC next month.

Prederick wrote:

He will, of course, be speaking at CPAC next month.

He knows that's not the only place to get dick, right?

Prederick wrote:

He will, of course, be speaking at CPAC next month.

CPAC hosted its first European conference back in May in Hungary and Orban was the keynote speaker. They know exactly who he is and are completely down with it.

Prederick wrote:

Orbáns gonna Orbán

Hungary’s far-right prime minister, Viktor Orbán, has lashed out against the “mixing” of European and non-European races, in a speech that immediately drew outrage from opposition parties and European politicians.

“We [Hungarians] are not a mixed race … and we do not want to become a mixed race,” said Orbán on Saturday. He added that countries where European and non-Europeans mingle were “no longer nations”.

Orbán has been making similar claims for years, but these comments were couched in stark far-right terms.

Katalin Cseh, an MEP from the opposition Momentum party, said she was appalled by the prime minister’s speech. “His statements recall a time I think we would all like to forget. They really show the true colours of the regime,” she said.

He will, of course, be speaking at CPAC next month.

Much as I love that country....I'm so glad I got out of there.

Bank of England warns the UK will fall into recession this year

This is obviously bad, in Britain's terms but also in Ukraine terms.

IMAGE(https://c.tenor.com/_0KWzrvV5P0AAAAC/die-hard-bruce-willis.gif)

Poland threatens to turn ‘all our cannon’ on EU in rule-of-law row

Poland’s national-conservative government has significantly toughened its rhetoric in its rule-of-law standoff with Brussels, threatening to turn “all our cannon” on the European Commission and if necessary build a coalition to unseat its president.

If the EU executive “tries to push us against the wall we will have no choice but to pull out all the weapons in our arsenal” and respond “an eye for an eye”, said Krzysztof Sobolewski, the general secretary of the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party.

Sobolewski told Polish state radio that if the commission did not release €35bn (£29.5bn) in pandemic relief funds Warsaw would take legal action against Brussels, veto EU initiatives and assemble an alliance to dismiss Ursula von der Leyen and her college of commissioners.

The threat came after Jarosław Kaczyński, who resigned as deputy prime minister in June but remains the chair of PiS and Poland’s de facto leader, said in an strongly worded interview in Sieci magazine that Warsaw had “no reason to fulfil its obligations” to the bloc.

“We have shown maximum goodwill, but [our] concessions have yielded nothing,” Kaczyński said, insisting Poland had respected its side of an agreement to roll back some of its controversial judicial reforms in exchange for EU funds.

“On our part it was kept, on their part it was broken,” he said. “It’s time to draw conclusions. We had to try, if only to make the issue clear. And today it is clear – everyone can see what the game is about.”