Red Dead Redemption 2 Catch-All

TheGameguru wrote:

You could insert X woman and how they dressed to avoid X assault and you would probably feel bad about blaming employees for working there.

I think this working situation is deplorable, but should we really be comparing a consensual employment relationship to rape?

If you really want to go there, maybe an abusive relationship would be a more apt metaphor.

Rave wrote:

I could be way off here but I'm often curious as to why gaming (maybe tech in genral) tends to demand consumers to enact changes on their behalf.

Maybe it just seems that way because we frequent a web site about video games.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:
Rave wrote:

I could be way off here but I'm often curious as to why gaming (maybe tech in genral) tends to demand consumers to enact changes on their behalf.

Maybe it just seems that way because we frequent a web site about video games.

I would make the claim that on a per-capita basis, no biz gets talked about as much as video games.

Make-up and Video Games have about the same total dollar value each year. But the number of websites devoted to one dwarfs the other.

Rave wrote:

I could be way off here but I'm often curious as to why gaming (maybe tech in genral) tends to demand consumers to enact changes on their behalf. Between arguments of games being to cheap compared to cost of making, worker rights, and "supporting" developers I find it super interesting that often it's the consumer that is asked to make changes or vote with their wallet. This feels like it's less previlant with other retail products.

Is it because this is a hobby and I pay more attention here then other consumer driven industry's. Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong. I often wonder how other industries became unionized (akin to something like film for instance) and why gaming never seems to be able to.

I think creative industries are hard to unionize (or get reasonable hours and competitive pay) because there's a seemingly endless supply of people who want those jobs so badly that they'll do them very cheaply - or even free, if you look at the mod community, podcasts, people posting their original music online, etc.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

You could insert X woman and how they dressed to avoid X assault and you would probably feel bad about blaming employees for working there.

I think this working situation is deplorable, but should we really be comparing a consensual employment relationship to rape?

If you really want to go there, maybe an abusive relationship would be a more apt metaphor.

That is a better metaphor. I replied in haste

jrralls wrote:
Danjo Olivaw wrote:
Rave wrote:

I could be way off here but I'm often curious as to why gaming (maybe tech in genral) tends to demand consumers to enact changes on their behalf.

Maybe it just seems that way because we frequent a web site about video games.

I would make the claim that on a per-capita basis, no biz gets talked about as much as video games.

Make-up and Video Games have about the same total dollar value each year. But the number of websites devoted to one dwarfs the other.

Are you sure about that claim?

Anyway, should this discussion be migrated to the Game Biz thread? We're going to get our hands on the game soon and while this discussion is important for (someone) to have, I'd like to have a spot to discuss how to min/max horse balls.

Yeah sorry to derail. I'm pumped for this game got lucky and ended up with Friday off so I'll be playing at midnight for sure I cannot wait.

Rave wrote:

I'm often curious as to why gaming (maybe tech in genral) tends to demand consumers to enact changes on their behalf.

...

I often wonder how other industries became unionized (akin to something like film for instance) and why gaming never seems to be able to.

I’ve already preordered RDR2 and I have no regrets. I do feel bad for the folks that work through these “crunch” periods. But ultimately, I can’t do anything to change it. My one man boycott of RDR2 would not make a lick of difference. And at the base level of the problem, The people who work there have chosen to do so.

So if you read my previous post and then read this one, you might notice that I’m conflicted.

...

I am a unionized worker. We have an annual crunch period. It lasts from November to February. My coworkers and I do intense physical labor for up to 60 hours a week, Mon - Sat. It’s a miserable time for everyone. We all choose to stay at the company regardless. Virtually nobody quits. Practically everyone leaves the company when they hit their retirement goals. Assuming they don’t have a career ending injury before that.

I think unions are a good thing. Unions make things better for workers but are far from perfect. Sadly, the act of organizing a work force into a union is a hurculean task, and it happens very rarely.

Ok. Let’s discuss haircuts and horse balls.

Let me try and help steer this thread back on to the hype train tracks. Enough of your adult and thoughtful conversations!

Got the special edition of RDR2 for XBox. Fedaykin98 convinced me to go for XBox. I think it’ll be the 2nd, maybe 3rd game I’ve ever played on my XBox? Buying the special edition seems a bit silly, but I like the touchy feely stuff like map. I doubt I’ll use the in-game stuff that much.

This is also the first time I’ve bought a game at launch in.....hmm...quite a long time. Rock Band 3 back in 2010 is the only one jumping to mind. It’ll be strange to follow along on a thread like this in realtime. I’m used to reading forum posts that are several years old.

So if Best Buy lets you pick it up at 9p, what happens if you put it in your console that night before midnight? Are physical copies time-locked too? Seems like that would be hard to do.

I’m assuming that you have to buy the physical copy to get the map. I have physical copies of all of the previous RS open world games. The maps are super sweet. Every few years I gently unfold them and pour over them for a little while.

As someone who's not that interested in RDR2, I'm kind of dreading the next couple of weeks. I'm considering picking it up just so I'll have something to talk about

ComfortZone wrote:

As someone who's not that interested in RDR2, I'm kind of dreading the next couple of weeks. I'm considering picking it up just so I'll have something to talk about :(

Fallout 76 would be another option if you’re looking for a big game to get lost in. Spider-Man and Assassin’s Creed as well.

Spider-Man is not that big to be honest. I pretty much did the main campaign plus a smattering of side missions and was done in a hair under 20 hours I think. Odyssey certainly is a much bigger game, as I imagine RDR2 will be too.

Reviews are popping up.

Tldr: It’s good but starts slow and is generally uneven. In other words, a Rockstar game.

Anyone know what time the game will be playable EST?

SpyNavy wrote:

Anyone know what time the game will be playable EST?

Download is available at 12est. Most stores are open at 9 est for sale for a physical release.

I was pretty surprised EB games called me to tell me my preorder was ready tonight to pick up at 9. Of course I ended up getting it digitally because it was much cheaper so it will be midnight for me.

Man, clicking that Polygon link and seeing a few dozen paragraphs of text and an embedded 45 minute review video, I'm reminded that, for all the totally understandable philosophical reasons to run reviews without scores, I really do prefer to be able to scroll to the bottom and see "8.5" or whatever. Or at least something like Kotkau's system where they have a little box that's "The Good" "The Bad" and a few other key details. I'll surely read and/or watch the review later, but it's nice to get a sense of the reviewer's feelings on a game without setting aside 30+ minutes to read every word.

My Best Buy pre-order is sill showing available for pickup Friday, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed the Weekly Ad's info about Thursday 9PM pickup is valid at my store. I suppose I could call them to find out.

ruhk wrote:

Reviews are popping up.

Tldr: It’s good but starts slow and is generally uneven. In other words, a Rockstar game.

I thought RDR1 started slow, definitely.

Digital Foundry. Looks like Xbox One X is a great platform for it.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:

60+ plus hours for creatives for more than two weeks is bad management.

I don't want this to get lost here because it's (from a managers point of view - which I am - though in biotech, not tech) the most salient point.

If you have to get someone to work for 60+ hours (or frankly even 50+ hours) for a period of more than a few days in a month, the management done f*cked up by failing to resource appropriately.

Tach wrote:
Danjo Olivaw wrote:

60+ plus hours for creatives for more than two weeks is bad management.

I don't want this to get lost here because it's (from a managers point of view - which I am - though in biotech, not tech) the most salient point.

If you have to get someone to work for 60+ hours (or frankly even 50+ hours) for a period of more than a few days in a month, the management done f*cked up by failing to resource appropriately.

At my previous job I would pretty reliably get 50-60 hours each week for most of my time there- I was there for six years. Last year I left for a more functional environment and ended up inadvertently taking a pay cut even though the new job paid more. I had gotten so used to the overtime I forgot it wasn’t normal and neglected to take it into account while job hunting.

Red Dead Redemption 2: The Kotaku Review

From tip to tail, Red Dead Redemption 2 is a profound, glorious downer. It is the rare blockbuster video game that seeks to move players not through empowering gameplay and jubilant heroics, but by relentlessly forcing them to confront decay and despair. It has no heroes, only flawed men and women fighting viciously to survive in a world that seems destined to destroy them.
I only rarely found Red Dead 2 to be “fun” in the way I find many other video games to be fun. The physical act of playing is rarely pleasurable on its own. It is often tiring and cumbersome, though no less thrilling for it. No in-game activity approaches the tactilely pleasing acts of firing a space-rifle in Destiny, axing a demon in God of War, or jumping on goombas in Super Mario Bros. Red Dead 2 continues Rockstar’s longstanding rejection of the notions that input response should be snappy, that control schemes should be empowering and intuitive, and that animation systems should favor player input over believable on-screen action.
farley3k wrote:

Red Dead Redemption 2: The Kotaku Review

From tip to tail, Red Dead Redemption 2 is a profound, glorious downer. It is the rare blockbuster video game that seeks to move players not through empowering gameplay and jubilant heroics, but by relentlessly forcing them to confront decay and despair. It has no heroes, only flawed men and women fighting viciously to survive in a world that seems destined to destroy them.

Thst quote makes it seem like the review was so much more negative then it actually was.

I thought so too but by the time I was done I felt the reviewer was actually trying hard to say good things about a game they really didn't like. As if they knew a negative review would get them attacked so they put in good stuff but really they didn't like the game.

Balthezor wrote:

Digital Foundry. Looks like Xbox One X is a great platform for it.

This and Forza are really making me happy I have the X.

farley3k wrote:

I thought so too but by the time I was done I felt the reviewer was actually trying hard to say good things about a game they really didn't like. As if they knew a negative review would get them attacked so they put in good stuff but really they didn't like the game.

Interesting take, didn't read that way at all to me. Felt like the writer was saying this transcended the medium but not because of its gameplay but because of the scope and details. Rockstar was afforded a luxury in both money, time and sheer worker hours whether that effort is sustainable or realistic is the question.

As much as I dont think it's a consumer problem I do think it's important for games press to take this into mind. Alot of the reviews I've read seem to address the crunch issue. And I think it's hard to deny that the game is all the better for it while also calling out against the work practices.

Yeah, I generally read the Kotaku as positive. But I can also see this game being pretty divisive. It doesn't sound like your typical power fantasy, and the game doesn't seem to care about the player. But it's also incredibly detailed and immersive (according to the review). I'm excited to see it for myself tomorrow.

Also Kotaku and Kirk Hamilton don't strike me as a site or a writer that would be afraid of blowback from a negative review if the reviewer didn't like the game. I think it's a pretty safe bet if the review reads a bit ambivalent, it's an accurate reflection of his opinion rather than a clue towards a more negative true opinion.