Red Dead Redemption 2 Catch-All

pyxistyx wrote:

ah, the old "b..b..bbbuuuuuuut accuraccy!" defence.

Rockstar doesn't really make historically accurate period games though. They make games based upon mythologized movies of historical periods.

That's their track record, yes, but they could change if they wanted to. They might even be shocked by how easy it is to do.

(And by how much more interesting a story they might find themselves telling.)

Well in that case, sure - there's clearly no space for a kick-arse lady gunslinger in made up fantasy-land Westerns. Silly me.

Rockstar is going to do just exactly what they are going to do. I would expect them to respond to complaints about diversity with the same kind of blithe dismissal that they usually deploy.

Try to recall the most memorable female character in a Rockstar game that wasn't married/dating/related to a male protagonist.

Yeah. There's a lot of room for improvement.

zeroKFE wrote:

That's their track record, yes, but they could change if they wanted to. They might even be shocked by how easy it is to do.

(And by how much more interesting a story they might find themselves telling.)

Yep. Watching Westworld is so utterly refreshing because it's playing with just how generally stupid and pointless all the stories, characters, and tropes in Rockstar games and many Westerns generally are. It's also exciting, filled with great characters, and has a fascinating story. They COULD make a really good game that plays around with all of the tropes they created, but I doubt they will given how well GTA 5 did sales-wise.

So, if Rockstar doesn't change and make's the same old thing I had my fill of many years ago, I'm out. I got GTA 5 at one point and really regret spending money on that. Red Dead Redemption was fine, but I don't need a second one if they stuff it with the same stuff they usually do.

I will buy the soundtrack if it's as fantastic as the last one.

Great news. Love Westerns and RDR is the best game Rockstar have done (well maybe that Table Tennis game, that was tight)

Rat Boy wrote:

Try to recall the most memorable female character in a Rockstar game that wasn't married/dating/related to a male protagonist.

IMAGE(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/reddeadredemption/images/8/81/Bonnie_Wallpaper.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100729021340)

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:

That's their track record, yes, but they could change if they wanted to. They might even be shocked by how easy it is to do.

(And by how much more interesting a story they might find themselves telling.)

Yep. Watching Westworld is so utterly refreshing because it's playing with just how generally stupid and pointless all the stories, characters, and tropes in Rockstar games and many Westerns generally are. It's also exciting, filled with great characters, and has a fascinating story. They COULD make a really good game that plays around with all of the tropes they created, but I doubt they will given how well GTA 5 did sales-wise.

So, if Rockstar doesn't change and make's the same old thing I had my fill of many years ago, I'm out. I got GTA 5 at one point and really regret spending money on that. Red Dead Redemption was fine, but I don't need a second one if they stuff it with the same stuff they usually do.

I will buy the soundtrack if it's as fantastic as the last one.

GTA5 was definitely a point of inflection with my interest in Rockstar games as well. It was a technical marvel and in many ways demonstrated why they are the kings of the genre, but even with three main "protagonists" with ostensibly different backgrounds I couldn't be bothered to care about a single aspect of their bland, cynical, stuck in 2002 cultural pastiche, and I fell off the game about halfway through the story. Mechanical inventiveness and polished production was enough to carry me through every previous GTA game, but this was the point where that charm finally wore off for me, I guess (the heist system was really cool, though).

I think a large part of why Red Dead was so successful (certainly for me) was because other than Bully, it's the only game they've ever made that dared to do something different narratively; to step away from rehashing the same tired character tropes, juvenile power fantasies, and out of touch satirical notes. And if we're being honest, I think there's a long section in the middle where it really was just "Grand Theft Horse" in that respect too -- you know, the whole section in Mexico that by and large people seem to agree didn't need to be there? But I'm not terribly optimistic that Rockstar really understands this, and as you point out, in the intervening time they've had GTA5's success to muddy the water further about the value of evolving their approach to story telling.

Anyway, there I go being pessimistic before we've even seen their first trailer. I really, really, really want my expectation to be wrong, and for them to deliver a game that will grab me as much as the original Red Dead did. But, I'm prepared to be out as well, for much the same reason -- more of what made Red Dead great would be excellent, but I'm probably with you in not needing any more of the standard Rockstar fare.

(Granted, just the western setting alone has a LOT more appeal than yet another modern crime drama about troubled anti-heroes doing sh*tty things and not really learning, changing, or having otherwise interesting developments of character other than maybe realizing some banal revenge or power acquisition related goal.)

I can't wait! Another justification for the late purchase of a PS4. This and Mass Effect very well may be day one grabs. Well... day 2 depending on reviews.

(From the other thread)

That guy on the left looks an awful lot like John. That is absolutely Bill Williamson third from the right. Third from left might be Dutch.

That looks like it might be Dutch's gang to me, but I have no idea who the guy in the center might be.

EDIT: But then wasn't Abigail supposed to be in the gang too?

Here's the 1 million dollar question: will there be blackjack and poker we can't pull ourselves away from until 3 in the morning?

Are they going to do a delayed PC-version à la GTAV or no PC version at all like the original? I'm guessing delayed, since so many people (as per my perception) bought it more than once because of that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it just didn't come out at all either.

beanman101283 wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Try to recall the most memorable female character in a Rockstar game that wasn't married/dating/related to a male protagonist.

IMAGE(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/reddeadredemption/images/8/81/Bonnie_Wallpaper.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100729021340)

She was the one good female character in the game from what I recall, and she was totally there to be the female relationship for the male protagonist. I never felt like she had any real agency. I hope that Red Dead Redemption 2 has a 50/50 split on male/female characters because my guess is most of the male characters will be typical Rockstar boring macho characters.

If anyone is interested in recent Westerns that subvert the classic genre at least to some degree, The Homesman and Slow West do a really good job of breaking down that idea of the western (particularly male) "hero". They may not do women characters in Westerns well, but they try to, and they make you think. There are actually enough women characters in the story that they actually make you think about how typical western characters treat women.

My whole perspective on this breaks down when I look at my love of Hateful 8 70mm, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I can deal with a bloody male-oriented thing to a certain extent, but for more than 3 hours I start to question things.

@TuffaloBuffalo

I agree that - after GTA V's characterisation of pretty much every female NPC as 'slut and/or shrew' - I think Rockstar need to think long and hard about how they portray women in RDR2. A decent playable female character would go a long way towards this.

The teaser poster, though, isn't a promising start. I hope they don't retreat behind the feeble "this story is fundamentally about masculinity" excuse that they deployed for GTA V.

However, this raises further questions about portrayal/representation. Will RDR2, for example, include playable Native American characters and feature Native American stories? Will there be African American cowboys (I understand that a surprisingly high number of cowboys in the old West were black)?

There are so many great opportunities here. I hope they take advantage of them.

I still need to play Red Dead Redemption. Well, restart it. It has been years since I fell off the horse on route to Mexico.

I enjoyed the Old West setting. I liked the horse riding. The music was excellent. I took to the mechanics of the gunplay. Even the hunting was a good distraction.

Orphu wrote:

(From the other thread)

That guy on the left looks an awful lot like John. That is absolutely Bill Williamson third from the right. Third from left might be Dutch.

Someone on Reddit did a side by side comparison and drew, I think, the same conclusions as you.

I can't wait to see the type of landscapes they create from the ground up for PS4/XBone, RDR had a really good feel were less was more in terms of the environments, the space & emptiness added to the feeling of being in the wild west. It's exciting to see how the attention to detail in their world building stacks up against CD Projekt Red's masterpiece.

I eagerly await the trailer tomorrow, Rockstar rarely ever disappoint.

I am hoping that they really bring the dude-killing down to a minimum, maybe like Mafia I or L.A. Noire. The great story and beautiful vistas of Red Dead Redemption were, IMO, undermined by the moments (hours) spent hiding behind a rock and shooting massive waves of bad guys.

RD Redemption was one of my favorite games of all time. I don't usually replay games, but I replayed this one as long as my 360 was alive. Not being able to play it anymore because it was only ever released for (nearly) dead systems is part of the reason I'm very disappointed that there is no word of a PC version yet. (yeah, yeah, XB1 backward compat doesn't count, sorry)

Honestly, they could poop out roughly the same game and I'd probably love it. I'd not change a thing from Redemption.

I have a feeling I'll be waiting well into 2018 to play it though. It's a year out at least, so add the obligatory delay plus another 6 mos for a PC version which seems typical of Rockstar recently.

I actually hope this one isn't connected to the first at all. I want a new story, new people, new location and a (slightly) new time period but I'll still buy it and play it to death if it's a prequel or sequel.

My only fear is that because of the success of GTA Online they'll go crazy full-on-into multiplayer. Not that I can blame them, GTA online was very successful, I just really treasure single player experiences

Absolutely cannot wait for this, and the fact that it won't be out for another year gives me time to play through the original and Undead Nightmare again. Love this series and I'm really stoked for the trailer today.

Well, that was short.

Pretty, but short.

*SNIP* Orphu-hausered.

Very shiny, but they sure didn't overwhelm us with details. Pretty much didn't show anything. Still, it's enough that it's real, and it's coming.

Reveals from the trailer:

1) It looks gorgeous.

2) It is still set in the Old West.

3) ?

Good gravy those environmental detail are remarkable.

Props.

I'm glad the finally have the available memory to do a proper forest. The snowy mountains could be pretty cool too. Looks fantastic.

I'm really glad video games can do good vegetation/shrubbery/trees now.