[Discussion] On Television, Cinema and Race

Thread for race issues in media.

Birth Of a Nation
This movie isn't do so good. I think this is because black people are tired of slave type movies, white people don't want the white guilt, and everybody else is turned off by the rape case. I mean this in general. This is just a perfect storm for the downfall of the movie.

Surviving Compton
Straight out of compton left out the ladies. This lifetime show means to correct that. I believe all of the production was done by women.

Mulan live.
All Chinese cast. Maybe the dumb choices of Gods of Egypt are over.

Looks like two of the Asian actors in Hawaii-5-0 quit because they weren't being paid as much as the white actors. I don't watch the show so I'm not sure how big their parts were. I heard a couple of stories of pay inequality but not specifically about this show.

... What?

That would have been Jin from Lost and Grace Park from BSG, right?

Like, those are the only people I can think of on that show, they were big in initial promotion.

That's shameful.

2017 remains 2017 I guess.

I haven't watched Hawaii 5-0 since season 3. It's fine, brainless entertainment, but there's just too damned much TV. But Kim and Park were absolutely central to the show.

It's also pretty crazy because not only were they pretty central to Hawaii 5-0, it's not like they were unknown actors before this. Both had pretty major roles in Lost and Battlestar Galactica. It's not as if the Hawaii producers could try and pass it off as these were fresh-faced actors trying to punch over their weight class and demanding too much. I'm glad they took a stand, and I'm hoping this doesn't get them on some kind of unofficial casting blacklist.

oilypenguin wrote:

... What?

That would have been Jin from Lost and Grace Park from BSG, right?

Like, those are the only people I can think of on that show, they were big in initial promotion.

That's shameful.

2017 remains 2017 I guess.

Yeah, while they weren't exactly A-listers, they were pretty solid B-listers. And the highlights of the rest of the cast are: James' Caan's son, known mostly for being James' Caan's son.

Johnny Gatt will have his revenge.

Apparently one of the show's creators has since responded, saying they got "unprecedented" raises, that still left them 2% lower than everyone else... with still no backend percentages from ratings/syndication... and it wasn't about race in spite of it being the two Asian actors paid less in the end...

Like, everyone else on this show keeps trying to dig out but aiming down every time.

There is a new show coming out called Confederate. In this show the South won and slavery never ended. The show is catching a lot of heat and being called racist.

Personally I don't find this interesting but if it turns out good I'll watch it. I kind of feel it is getting the Dear White People unfair treatment. I don't think it is fair to judge the show before watching a single episode. We don't know what direction the show will take. Will everything be roses or will this be a nightmare world like in The Handmaiden. Just like Dear White People touched on a number of issues I'm sure Confederate will do the same or at least has the potential to.

The issue is that people are sick (and rightfully so) of black actors being forced to portray slaves and endure horrible things rather than being allowed to portray as CEOs, Lawyers, Doctors, or hell just normal people with normal desires and wants.

Getting white America comfortable with seeing black people play something other than a Slave is the goal. It's doubtful this show will help that.

I am speaking about people that have spoke against the show for specifically for being racist. That might not be the main reasons most people don't want it to exist. I'm just talking about the reasons I actually heard thrown at the show.

You are the first person I have seen state that as the problem with the show. In fact I have not seen that claim thrown at Underground. I also don't think there are many tv shows where black people are slaves. Removing the show from existence changes literally nothing except making less job opportunities for black people . If the problem is truly with black people being forced to play only slaves it would make more sense to speak out on shows where there are no main black actors. I mean in my entire life there have been only 2 tv shows that deals with slaves. If I include movies there are maybe 7 or 8. However, the shows with no main black actors is many times that.

However, I would have to admit there are more shows with main black actors today than 20 or 40 years ago. Luther, American Gods, New Star Trek, Blackish, Power, Powers, Timeless, Travelers, Dr Who and every show I currently watch has at least one main black actor or other non white person. I currently don't watch all white shows unless there is good reason for it.

Speaking of Star Trek, me and my wife were watching an old episode of DS9 the other night, where Worf and Sisko were talking about their sons, and I was thinking, "This might have been the blackest thing on network television at the time." I don't really have a point here, I just thought it was interesting. Even today, it's kind of rare to see two black African American men playing leading roles in the same show. I suspect that Hollywood believes that audiences would find more than one black man "threatening".

I think the Daily Show covered it best... the show is about how the Confederate won the Civil War, so we have to imagine a world where...

The country flies Confederate flags and protects statues of Confederate leaders... where black people are treated like sub-humans... and the country is run by white supremacists...

Gee, what an imaginative concept. How do they come up with this stuff?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A very good tweet storm about why the confederate sh*t show is a bad idea.

https://twitter.com/fozmeadows/statu...

Since it's alternative history anyway, why don't they do a show where black people controlled the country and enslaved whites?

I honestly think that getting hit in the side of the head with that blunt of story is what's required to get a lot of white America to think about race differently than they have (which is to say not at all, except to think they're the ones being discriminated against).

Except that's not too far off from the situation many of the alt-right have deluded themselves into thinking we're in already. Take a second and think about how they'd react to a show where oppressed whites have to rise up and overcome their black oppressors.

Alt-righters are simply lost causes. Nothing short of an earth-shattering person revelation is going to get them to change their staunchly racist minds.

I'm more thinking about the millions of white Americans who've never taken a moment to put themselves in the shoes of black people. It would be eye opening for them to see what actual oppression and discrimination look like.

OG_slinger wrote:

Since it's alternative history anyway, why don't they do a show where black people controlled the country and enslaved whites?

I honestly think that getting hit in the side of the head with that blunt of story is what's required to get a lot of white America to think about race differently than they have (which is to say not at all, except to think they're the ones being discriminated against).

This has already been done. The movie didn't do well.

Just gonna say, no one had such issues when it came to a show about the Nazis winning WWII. Not saying that they can't do a horrendous job with this as an idea, but I don't think it should be rejected on its face.

To me, the idea is to show the people today that defend the confederacy what they are really defending. And with all of the confederate apologists we have defending the monuments and that f*cking flag, it feels far from gratuitous.

It probably wasn't popular because of the hierarchy inversion thing. People don't like it when you mess with the existing hierarchy, even if it's awful.

I find it hard to take anyone outraged about this based on the premise seriously. I have very little doubt that the whole point of the show is to put emphasis on how terrible things would be in a nation that has slavery and probably a big part of the plot is going to be based on how to fight against that on different levels. ALso, it's fiction.

If anything, it should do well with all the "white ppl r bad mkay" folks.

We should remember that in context, the show is proposed by the creators of arguably the best television show in history, a show that fundamentally changed television forever.

That said - their last show was already a masturbatory trip of white patriarchal supremacy in a libertarian utopia, where the strong prosper and the weak are married off to people who flay their enemies alive. I don't know if the world needs a Game of Thrones In The South.

GoT is not a libertarian utopia. It's a *Monarchist* utopia...

Seth wrote:

That said - their last show was already a masturbatory trip of white patriarchal supremacy in a libertarian utopia, where the strong prosper and the weak are married off to people who flay their enemies alive. I don't know if the world needs a Game of Thrones In The South.

Along the lines of the tweets linked earlier, I'm always torn when a criticism of something gets it wrong, but I have this suspicion that they're getting it wrong in the same way most people get it wrong.

Regardless of what a show *is* the important question when it comes to accomplishing a political goal in the real world is what the show *did* (or will do, in this case).

Here's a link to an interview with the creators that maybe gives some indication as to whether they'll do a better job of being understood with this new project.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
Seth wrote:

That said - their last show was already a masturbatory trip of white patriarchal supremacy in a libertarian utopia, where the strong prosper and the weak are married off to people who flay their enemies alive. I don't know if the world needs a Game of Thrones In The South.

Along the lines of the tweets linked earlier, I'm always torn when a criticism of something gets it wrong, but I have this suspicion that they're getting it wrong in the same way most people get it wrong.

Regardless of what a show *is* the important question when it comes to accomplishing a political goal in the real world is what the show *did* (or will do, in this case).

Here's a link to an interview with the creators that maybe gives some indication as to whether they'll do a better job of being understood with this new project.

I'm a big fan of alternative history such as the Harry Turtledove series, and I feel a lot more confident that this could be an incredible project with the Spellmans on board. If anything, I hope the show is able to humanize the Confederates without glorifying them or excusing how horrible slavery was. The main fear I have is not that it would just be torture porn or a rallying point for Pepe sniffers. It's that all the slaveholders and supporters will be portrayed like Ramsey Bolton, making it easy for White viewers to pat themselves on the back for not being total psychos.

liquid wrote:

I find it hard to take anyone outraged about this based on the premise seriously. I have very little doubt that the whole point of the show is to put emphasis on how terrible things would be in a nation that has slavery and probably a big part of the plot is going to be based on how to fight against that on different levels. ALso, it's fiction.

If anything, it should do well with all the "white ppl r bad mkay" folks.

Depends on how the show ends up handling everything. It's going to be extremely tricky to get right and very easy to get wrong. We've seen how the deplorable behave when even they feel even the slightest bit of offense to white nationalism and supremacy. So either the show paints a picture where the oppressors are basically Nazi's on a day to day basis to the last person (and suffers the extreme backlash from Trump and co.) OR it treats them as sympathetic oppressors who really were all about states rights. There is also a ton of fail just waiting to happen if we get the old White Savior trope.

I have no issue with the show being made.. It's depressing but that's the reality of the world we live in.. just look at all the recent Oscar nominations for black people.. most of them dealt with Slavery. I wish it could be different but I suspect its never going to be.

Robear wrote:

GoT is not a libertarian utopia. It's a *Monarchist* utopia...

"Libertarian Utopia" is an oxymoron.

Seth wrote:

We should remember that in context, the show is proposed by the creators of arguably the best television show in history, a show that fundamentally changed television forever.

They made The Wire?

karmajay wrote:
Seth wrote:

We should remember that in context, the show is proposed by the creators of arguably the best television show in history, a show that fundamentally changed television forever.

They made The Wire?

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/RwyC8Mu.gif)

NathanialG wrote:
karmajay wrote:
Seth wrote:

We should remember that in context, the show is proposed by the creators of arguably the best television show in history, a show that fundamentally changed television forever.

They made The Wire?

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/RwyC8Mu.gif)

Legion would be very happy with me right now

From the Teen Vogue article:

Let's get the historical education down pat first, and then we can start discovering new and inventive ways to dramatize the past.

I think that's putting the cart before the horse when we're talking about changing the minds of most people. People think in dramatic stories. It's dramatic stories that shape their attitudes, not "historical education down pat."

Will this series make the world a better place? If that's the question we're asking, maybe what's more important than the precise accuracy of the content is that the people it's trying to reach trust the 'dudes from Game of Thrones'. Maybe the audience that needs to be 'educated' in the first place needs to hear that lesson from a source that doesn't trigger their mental defenses before anything can get in.