Thread for race issues in media.
Birth Of a Nation
This movie isn't do so good. I think this is because black people are tired of slave type movies, white people don't want the white guilt, and everybody else is turned off by the rape case. I mean this in general. This is just a perfect storm for the downfall of the movie.
Surviving Compton
Straight out of compton left out the ladies. This lifetime show means to correct that. I believe all of the production was done by women.
Mulan live.
All Chinese cast. Maybe the dumb choices of Gods of Egypt are over.
A friend of mine from college wrote heavy blog post about cosplaying while black, the shit she has had to deal with, and the state of the fandom right now.
That's a great post, thanks for sharing.
Lovecraft Country Panel. They get into it about race.
Wow. Been a long time we've seen one of these in the wild.
I've been debated whether or not to post this for a while. This is more music related, but seems to be within the scope of this thread. I've been a Kpop fan for a couple years now, and one of my favorite groups (and one of the most talented groups, IMO) is MAMAMOO. Lately they've been getting a lot of hate online for a few instances of problematic behavior in their past and a lot of misconceptions. Here's some of the facts as I know them:
1) Blackface - unfortunately a few years ago when performing a tribute to Bruno Mars, they decided to wear makeup to darken their skin to simulate the the skin of Bruno Mars and his dancers. Fans were quick to let them know the problematic nature of this and educate them of the history of blackface. The group apologized online that day, and in person to fans the next day. And they said they'd educate themselves on the subject so it wouldn't happen again.
2) The n-word - while on a live stream, member Hwasa was singing along to a song that was in English. She doesn't speak English. The song had the n-word in it and she sang it without knowing the meaning. Again they apologized and said they'd work to be better.
People can choose to forgive them for these things or not. To me these seem to come from ignorance and a lack of knowledge of issues from a culture that foreign to them.
Other instances that often get pointed out as problematic seem more like misconceptions and misunderstandings. Like the following:
3) Member, Solar, appeared on a comedy skit as a homeless person. She had makeup on her face to show that it was unwashed. People claimed this was a repeat of the blackface incident. Her character was Korean, and there were no mentions of race in the skit.
4) A fan once called member Hwasa, "black unnie". Hwasa has a darker natural skin tone, and has bucked the trend of kpop stars who sometimes appear lighter skinned on stage because of makeup. She has told her makeup artist they need to get makeup to match her skin tone, and has famously said "If I don't conform to other's beauty standards, I will make my own standard of beauty". But she has never made any claim of "blackness". Nevertheless, this "black unnie" comment has since been attributed to her, and not as something coming from a fan who should have thought before they spoke.
5) Most recently, Hwasa appeared on a Korean TV show called "I Live Alone" which is a comedy/slice of life type of show. On she wore a robe and headwrap as she was supposed to be returning from a spa. People instantly assumed this was mocking African traditional dress, in particular, they claimed she was wearing "colors" from Nigeria, and appropriating their culture. This spread fast on Twitter and was often spread with less understanding takes of the past instances listed above, with claims that Hwasa is racist and evil and many folks quickly "un-staned" (stopped being a fan) and started becoming very vocal in attacking any post from or about Mamamoo.
Of course, when Mamamoo fans who where actually from Nigeria spoke up and said these colors weren't any traditional dress from their culture, and the style was not traditional dress from their country, they were ignored. When the TV show gave a statement that stated that is was an extra fancy take on a traditional Korean spa look and had no other cultural meaning, they were ignored.
This is the outfit in question (Hwasa is the one on the right side of the photo).
This comes on the heals of Mamamoo's song, Hip, which is basically a clapback to the haters who feel the need to nitpick everything Mamamoo does (like dressing 'too casually' at an airport for one real example). And Hwasa's song Maria which tells the character in the song, Maria, not to listen to the haters, she's already beautiful. Hwasa was given 'Maria' as her baptismal name when she was baptized, so the song is basically a letter written to herself to stay strong. The video uses images of mental health of someone affected by constant hate from others.
Mamamoo is exceptionally talented, and take a different path than most Idol groups, partly in that they don't try to conform to the traditional beauty standards. This may be where a lot of the hate comes from, when "fans" want just a traditional cute concept and nothing more. And while I only mentioned problematic past events of Mamamoo in this post, this is something that MANY kpop groups have gone through, mostly because of a lack of understanding of western cultures and its history of racism. Some have apologized like Mamamoo has, other have been less transparent after their mistakes, but none seem to receive the hate that Mamamoo does.
Mamamoo always shows a lot of respect for others. On a recent reality show that pitted a number of girl groups against each other to compete for 1st place, Mamamoo when asked to criticize the worst performance of the week would constantly praise everyone else and criticize their shortcomings and say they'd work to be better. It bothers me that the respect they're putting out there isn't being returned to them in kind.
Finally, thanks for anyone who has taken the time to read this far. I've been watching this unfold on Twitter and needed a place to vent and sort my thoughts out for myself. Disclaimer: I'm white and I've got no first hand knowledge of Korean culture or the racism that black people face, so if I said anything wrong in all this let me know.
Informative and interesting, thanks!
3. I saw a caricatured tinker character during a festival in Anyang-shi. Little blotches of schmutz on their face. Maybe it was something like that. Problematic, just not for reasons of race.
Thank you for that. There's a LOT going on with K-Pop and race, which I am not nearly well-versed enough to be an expert in to discuss, although I will openly admit I always looked slightly askance at how much they took from black pop culture while being a country that, as far as I've seen, if 20 black people showed up looking for asylum and permanent residence, they'd change the immigration laws in a weekend.
That said, I am fully against Stan-culture, pro or anti, in all of its forms and the way it absolutely flattens nuance in the form of who can have the most all-or-nothing over-the-top take in all situations, so I'm unsurprised how a possible teaching moment could be just turned into a chance for people to yell for clout on social media.
Speaking as an African-American, there is a whoooooooooooooooole lot about the nuances of race in America that frankly, I'm just not going to expect Koreans to understand. That's not a "they can do whatever because they're ignorant" pass, as I'm fairly sure no-one in Korea would give me a pass if I said some dumbass shit about Comfort Women (and I should not be!) But there are intricacies and nuances there I'm just not expecting them to understand the entirety of, and again, I say that as someone who is, at best, skeptical of how much K-Pop appropriates black culture.
But modern Fandom and social media really allows the worst actors in these situations to take the bully pulpit and go Social Justice Clout Chasing.
I say that as someone who is, at best, skeptical of how much K-Pop appropriates black culture.
Yeah, Kpop literally became a thing because someone visited the US from Korea in the 80s, saw pop/r&b music, and said "we should do this". This begs the question is all cultural appropriation bad? If some is good (or at least acceptable), and some is bad, how do we draw that line?
Likewise with the spa outfit controversy, the question is raised; What is fashion and what is culture? And if it is culture, is it okay for others to wear? If the answer is it's sometimes okay to wear cultural clothes (kimonos for example) and sometimes not (Native-American headresses), how do we draw the line?
While I may have some broad understanding (or at least think I do) I don't think I can even come close to addressing the many nuances of these questions.
This begs the question is all cultural appropriation bad? If some is good (or at least acceptable), and some is bad, how do we draw that line?
I've found this an interesting question to dig into, since if we're going to live in a globalized society, there will always be a level of cultural appropriation that will not meet the requirements of wokeness.
However, I'm always going to be skeptical of instances of loving black culture, but not black people. And from what I've read, SK loves it some black culture. The actual people?
Workplace “Anti-Racism Trainings” Aren’t Helping
No great place to put this, but I found it interesting.
This begs the question is all cultural appropriation bad?
As an old white guy, I've always thought that The Great American Melting Pot was a great idea, and that everyone was contributing their little bits to the broader culture of being American. And our Constitution is very much about increasing the size of the 'commons', the cultural and scientific ideas that anyone is free to use at any time. The more variety is in the commons, the richer we all become.
Admittedly, the copyright lobby has expanded its power far beyond where it was ever supposed to be, and it's having some really deleterious effects on the broader economy. (farmers that can't fix their own tractors, for instance, or people going to jail for sharing music.) LIkewise, it seems alien to me that any culture gets to "own" any idea or behavior.
That strikes me as dividing America into warring tribes, instead of trying to make a greater whole. Cultures are supposed to blend and make something new.
I've taken the position for a while now that sometimes, yes, it can be bad, but that in other circumstances, a certain amount of it is just going to happen in a globalized world, much less in a diverse, multiracial, multicultural society.
Or more simply:
Basically the Kardashian's entire existence: Cultural Appropriation
White people with dreadlocks: Not.
This begs the question is all cultural appropriation bad?As an old white guy, I've always thought that The Great American Melting Pot was a great idea, and that everyone was contributing their little bits to the broader culture of being American. And our Constitution is very much about increasing the size of the 'commons', the cultural and scientific ideas that anyone is free to use at any time. The more variety is in the commons, the richer we all become.
Admittedly, the copyright lobby has expanded its power far beyond where it was ever supposed to be, and it's having some really deleterious effects on the broader economy. (farmers that can't fix their own tractors, for instance, or people going to jail for sharing music.) LIkewise, it seems alien to me that any culture gets to "own" any idea or behavior.
That strikes me as dividing America into warring tribes, instead of trying to make a greater whole. Cultures are supposed to blend and make something new.
Cultural appropriation is if the Chinese suddenly claim to have invented automobiles and the factory, erase Western involvement in it, and then the rest of us just play along and deny any claims that Americans may have on any of the ideas. Then Beijing will start demanding royalties on American companies making cars just to rub it in. Americans claiming to have known Ford to have popularized automobiles for the masses will be derided as ignoramuses spreading dangerous nonsense. Books and media will be changed to match the new cultural reality. American car companies go under because no one wants American cars and then Malaysians will visit and remark about how your companies are so backwards compared to the inventors of the car. They go on about how much about car culture and manufacture is awesome and about how that's a shame that you never made your own.
The thing that really crystallized it for me was something Pred said a while ago in....this thread maybe? And I can't remember the exact wording but what I took from it was: Some people really like black culture, but really hate black people.
Obviously there's a lot more to be said, but for me that was just an amazing starting point for framing CA. We like this thing so much we're going to take it, but still give a big f*ck you to the people that invented it.
EDIT: Haaaaaa, it is literally on this page. Sorry, I only read new posts. 
J k rowling is making me lose all interest in harry potter anything.
J k rowling is making me lose all interest in harry potter anything.
Oh I guess I should go into more detail. I have seen reports that her newest book is transphobic and she found the need to right a essay on why transwomen aren't women. Then there is her non stop posting on her stupid views on the subject that caused me to unfollow her. I was hoping she would have moved on by now but I guess she is carrying this soapbox for awhile.
Bridgerton Problematic?
I liked the show but it does have problems. I only tuned in because it was a period piece with black people in it.
The problems for me were not having dark skinned people in leading roles. Having the black girl as the one to get pregnant while unmarried and being such the scandal. Also would have like more of her story. Contradiction. maybe. Actually everyone besides the two main leads needed more story or maybe they should have completely removed them.
There is also a moment that I considered a rape but I'm not sure if most people would because it is a girl doing the raping. Also they might not consider it a rape because of the situation. Personally I think the guy clearly said he wanted to stop and she didn't stop. It wasn't because she was caught up in the moment, she made a choice to ignore him. I don't know if the scene is triggering or not. Definitely not on the level of Jamie being raped on Outlander. I might be still traumatized over that.
There was a good bit of discussion about the show on Romanclandia Twitter 
This is a thread on the rape in Bridgerton show. It was definitely worse in the book. Daphne intentionally waited to have sex with him when he came back drunk.
I have read all the Julia Quinn Bridgerton books.
Lady Danbury is in all the books and is important.
I found it very nice to see Black actors in any of the roles.
The second book is about Anthony. The series goes through all 8 kids, then it branches into other characters.
I believe they will film the second season later this year or next year 
Oh so a new season would focus on a different kid. I was wondering where they would go. Simon and Daphne story seems to be done.
It is. They have their HEA (happily ever after).
They show up in later books as side characters so we get to see them happy together.
I get where you’re coming from with colorism in the show, but it also was wonderful not to have only a lily white cast. There also (of course) were people up in arms about changing the “historical accuracy” by having people of color in the cast at all, so having Simon be Black was absolutely shocking to some idiots.
Bridgerton did follow the conventions of a romance and we really haven’t seen any adaptations of the modern genre before.
Ashoka Tano is replacing Cara Dune on artwork for season 2 of The Mandalorian. Gina Carano has posted some troubling things that started a campaign to have her fired. Nothing official has been stated just that Disney has been removing her from official artwork for The Mandalorian season 2 which doesn't air until 2022. I think she is being fired. Ashoka will be all over her own promotional stuff for her series, is she even in the second seasons of The Mandalorian?
Are you talking about season 3? Season 2 already aired.
Ahsoka was in one episode of Season 2.
The article said season 2 but I was thinking there was only one season.
The Mandalorian, Rangers of the New Republic, and Ahsoka will all be connected, so I expect she might show up at some point in Mando's season 3 too.
I only just watched S1E4 ("Sanctuary") where she appears. I like watching her, I enjoyed the character, but I won't cry if she's removed because she's fash.
Again, I mentioned this in the anime thread, but I genuinely think you could write a damn paper about how, in GITS:SAC, when the main characters (all of whom are Japanese, and none of whom "look" ethnically Japanese) meet two Japanese-Americans from the CIA, the CIA guys look more Japanese than the main cast. I find it an endlessly interesting thing about anime.
The Mandalorian, Rangers of the New Republic, and Ahsoka will all be connected, so I expect she might show up at some point in Mando's season 3 too.
Gina Carano just got fired over her stupid posts. Interestingly I believe she still has a hot toy coming out. They haven't said it has been canceled yet.
There is something rather wonderful about the timing of this announcement of Pedro Pascal's new gig given his transphobe co-star from the Mandalorian getting axed.
... wait, since when did Chrome's spell check work for "Mandalorian?"
Good riddance.
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