[Discussion] Brexit means Brexit

Discuss the political fallout and other issues around Britain's exit, Brexit for short, from the EU.

For the sake of clarity, I'm including the full text of Article 50.

Article 50 wrote:

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

Jonman wrote:
Axon wrote:
DanB wrote:

Briefly coming back to this article has made me realise that the enmity the Scots have for English isn't a dislike of English people (some of my best friends are English...). Instead it is a deep distaste for the features of Englishness discussed in that article.

I'd like to echo that. And that the accusation that the Irish are drunks isn't exactly completely untrue

TL:DR version: The English aren't hated because they're English, they're hated because they're wankers.

Agreed. My countrymen are wankers.

My current emigration priority list is:

(a) Scandinavia
(b) Northwest Europe
(c) Canada
(d) New Zealand
(e) Southern Europe
(f) SE Asia
(g) Africa
(h) Democratic Republicic of Trump
(i) Australia

And, Dan, be honest with yourself, this wasn't a "leave of senses".

Well, I mean "come to their senses" in a more general rhetorical sense rather then to imply anyone currently involved in this process has any sense.

The attitude of the English can be summed up by us referring to sportsmen/women as Scottish until they are successful at which point they are referred to as British.

Concave wrote:

The attitude of the English can be summed up by us referring to sportsmen/women as Scottish until they are successful at which point they are referred to as British.

EXACTLY.

Oh, by the way - Farage has found his calling.

Nigel Farage’s love affair with Donald Trump’s America has taken another leap forward with news the former Ukip leader is to become a commentator on Fox News.

Fox announced Farage would be joining to provide political analysis on its main news channel and its business network in a short statement during Trump’s swearing-in as the 45th US president.

So in the latest salvo in the Brexit torrent of poop, apparently Theresa May is pinning our hopes for post-Brexit success on non-existent robots.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2zpUdkX...

She wants to automate English jobs? I mean, that's about what it comes down to.

Japan pursued the robot strategy because they're way better at being insular and disallowing immigration than just about anyone else on the planet, and they have the aging population to prove it. And they've had very mixed results.

It makes good sense to invest in automation. As a long-term plan over decades, not exactly in time for leaving the EU.
Also pure nonsense, since if robot and AI automation turns out to be the big new thing then UK and everyone else will invest in it, no matter if they are in EU or not. You would still be relatively worse off in the global economy.
Likewise for educating a high skill workforce. That is not a Brexit strategy, just a common sense strategy for all rich countries everywhere.

Certainly also the direct opposite of what those Brexit voters wanted. We stop eastern European workers to take your job, by replacing you with robots! Also we take away your social benefits, since you can't compete with a robot. Please vote for us.

Supreme Court upholds the need for Parlimentary approval on initiating Brexit

Ultimately, this wont make a huge difference in outcome, I suspect - however it's a strong victory when it comes to preventing the rule of law being overruled by ambitious individuals with delusions of grandeur. I'm sure the Daily Mail will still plaster "TRAITORS!!1!" all over their front page though.

Unfortunately, the devolved assemblies don't get a look in, which is annoying but not unexpected.

AND there's always a chance that it will help move away from the worst of 'hard brexit'.

pyxistyx wrote:

Unfortunately, the devolved assemblies don't get a look in, which is annoying but not unexpected.

Yes a shame but possibly more ammunition for the coming indyref2

In other news UKIP funder Arron Banks has been predictably complaining about this court judgement
https://twitter.com/BuckmasterFresh/...

Well, at least now they'll still get their chance to object/vote against it in parliament when it gets debated, along with everyone else, so not a total loss.

The Parliament better vote on Brexit. The US only jumped after the UK did, it won't be fair at all if you "Psyche!!" your way back on your bungee cord while the US is tumbling down the precipice.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. How's that Boston Tea Party feel now?

The tea is as salty as my liberal tears.

As nice as it would be to have the whole thing reversed that's VERY unlikely, sadly. (And personally I feel at this stage that would run the risk of making the situation worse by pushing a lot of angry English voters to Ukip or similar, and creating our own little potential populist right wing uprising...as bad as the tories are they are still a far cry from the horror show of Trump N' Co).

However there's now at least a chance we might forgo some of the idiotic 'hard-brexit' ideas May was planning and try to come up with something that's considerably softer and less confrontational (for one thing, they need to say up front that any EU citizens living in the UK will be protected and are welcome. Full stop. The way the SNP have since day 1 of this happening, btw.

Something May has been reluctant to do because they make for effective 'hostages' in the negotiations. ).

Microsoft is acknowledging they may scale back a planned UK datacenter, because of Brexit.

Brexit continues to shape the tech industry and market in the UK. Microsoft’s UK Government Affairs Manager Owen Larter spoke in the What Brexit Means for Tech webinar expressing that the Redmond giant is committed to their branches in the UK. At least, for now.

The growing concern of Britain leaving the European single market is that import tariffs will rise, according to a report from the Tech Republic. Larter explained that if the tariffs were to become an issue, Microsoft might pull their future plans for Britain’s two datacenters.

“We’re really keen to avoid import tariffs on any hardware. Going back to the datacenter example, we’re looking to build out our datacenters at a pretty strong lick in the UK, because the market is doing very well…

If all of a sudden there are huge import [tariffs] on server racks from China or from eastern Europe, where a lot of them are actually assembled, that might change our investment decisions and perhaps we build out our datacenters across other European countries.”

Simply put, if they cannot build in Britain, then they will build surrounding it. Currently, the data is shared freely between the EU countries without any issues. This is because they all have similar security between them. However, if the UK leaves the EU, then this could cause even more issues for Microsoft.

The new server hardware we've recently purchased at worm cost us nearly a third more than it did before the referendum due to sterling going in to freefall

Slightly off-topic but has any of the UK resident EU people applied for Permanent Residency? I'll pulling together all my documentation at the moment and I'm a little worried. The advice I've been given is that if you qualify (5 years contiguous full time employment in my case), you should get it done now.

DoveBrown wrote:

Slightly off-topic but has any of the UK resident EU people applied for Permanent Residency? I'll pulling together all my documentation at the moment and I'm a little worried. The advice I've been given is that if you qualify (5 years contiguous full time employment in my case), you should get it done now.

My wife and friend have both gone through the process. Neither is an EU national though (US and Singaporean respectively). Of all the other folk I know who have done it (probably 5+) I've yet to hear of a rejection but we live in interesting times. It's a pain in the ass and really time consuming and they keep jacking up the price so if you want it the sooner you get it done the better really.

If you think you have anything that might qualify as a black mark (criminal conviction?) you might want to talk to an immigration lawyer beforehand.

While I'm sure Ken Clarke isn't everyone's favourite, it's good to hear a proper defense of the EU and the UK's role in it from the House of Commons.

David Davis, Minister for Brexit, has published the white paper on how they will proceed. It's painfully short on how any of it's aims are going to be achieved.

In his defence we don't actually know he's NOT a powerful sorcerer with the ability to manipulate reality at a whim.

Well, somebody needs to pull some kind of rabbit from any hat. May certainly isn't getting much from the remaining 27.

Axon wrote:

Well, somebody needs to pull some kind of rabbit from any hat. May certainly isn't getting much from the remaining 27.

obvious snub is obvious

I can't resist.

Axon wrote:

I can't resist.

Well that's brilliantly apropos: "This video contains content from Fremantle International, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds"

On the vaguely hopeful side of things. MPs will apparently get a vote on the Brexit settlement

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...

So there is, I guess a chance, this will be a "soft" brexit. Obviously the choice might just end up as meaningless as "Do you want WTO rules or a full withdrawal from the EU?" and of course any vote too close to the Article 50 2 year deadline will mean MPs will have little choice but to agree.

That seems like a lot of wishful thinking, it states that this would allow the UK Parliament to vote on the agreement before it was "rubber stamped" by Brussels. This assumes that the UK and EU will be able to settle on an agreement (the negotiation of which will only start to occur after Article 50 is enacted, unless the EU has softened its stance without me noticing) that both parliament and the EU will accept, which was always kind of the sticking point.

If they can't get such a deal then the Article 50 timeline lapses the UK will still have no deal. If Parliament votes no on it, they get no deal, if parliament votes yes on some alternative deal that the EU doesn't like then Brussels just won't confirm it.

It seems like all that's happened here is that one more hurdle has been placed in the way of such a deal, there is now one more party that needs to accept the deal, in a situation where if any single party rejects the deal everything falls apart.