Westworld (Season 3) Catch-All - Spoilers Ahoy!

They're blanks with light coming out, think the NES Zapper. The hosts are programmed to receive the light and if they do, they react appropriately.

maverickz wrote:

The hosts are programmed to receive

But when the guests check out any time they like, can they ever leave?

maverickz wrote:

They're blanks with light coming out, think the NES Zapper. The hosts are programmed to receive the light and if they do, they react appropriately.

Wouldn't it be great if the guests had NES Zappers? The park should allow modding.

Edit: And achievements!
Edit: And perks!
Edit: And bling!
Edit: I'm going to stop now.

slazev wrote:
maverickz wrote:

They're blanks with light coming out, think the NES Zapper. The hosts are programmed to receive the light and if they do, they react appropriately.

Wouldn't it be great if the guests had NES Zappers? The park should allow modding.

Edit: And achievements!
Edit: And perks!
Edit: And bling!
Edit: I'm going to stop now.

I would pay so much money to go there!

maverickz wrote:

They're blanks with light coming out, think the NES Zapper. The hosts are programmed to receive the light and if they do, they react appropriately.

We know for sure they're firing actual projectiles, ones that bounce off guests, but blow holes in hosts.

Malor wrote:
maverickz wrote:

They're blanks with light coming out, think the NES Zapper. The hosts are programmed to receive the light and if they do, they react appropriately.

We know for sure they're firing actual projectiles, ones that bounce off guests, but blow holes in hosts.

Good point. Though I still think my idea is more realistically plausible. Even though it isn't supported by evidence in the show. I'm willing to just let it pass my rational filter as a show conceit.

maverickz wrote:
Malor wrote:
maverickz wrote:

They're blanks with light coming out, think the NES Zapper. The hosts are programmed to receive the light and if they do, they react appropriately.

We know for sure they're firing actual projectiles, ones that bounce off guests, but blow holes in hosts.

Good point. Though I still think my idea is more realistically plausible. Even though it isn't supported by evidence in the show. I'm willing to just let it pass my rational filter as a show conceit.

Westworld did supply William's shirt. Perhaps it is part of the system and fires a squib where he would have been shot.

Radical Ans wrote:

Westworld did supply William's shirt. Perhaps it is part of the system and fires a squib where he would have been shot.

But then why do we see bullets hitting the dirt in the Confederate camp? Is all the dirt, everywhere in Westworld, loaded with small explosives?

Remember when the MiB was breaking out of jail. There was a request for pyrotechnics sent to the park monitors. Maybe it's all digital or synthesized.

Maybe it's all digital or synthesized.

Maybe, but I had the impression that they were claiming what we see is (mostly) happening in the real, physical world, and that these were actual physical effects.

I'm starting to believe, though, that the effects we're seeing actually have no explanation, that even the writers have no idea how anything works. It may just be magical handwaving.

It all being digital or synthesized doesn't jive with the need to dump murdered hosts into a big ol' pile and hose them off every night.

Malor wrote:

I'm starting to believe, though, that the effects we're seeing actually have no explanation, that even the writers have no idea how anything works. It may just be magical handwaving.

And in my opinion that's totally fine. That's not what the show is about.

maverickz wrote:

And in my opinion that's totally fine. That's not what the show is about.

Yeah..... kinda, I guess. I dunno. I guess I'd like a sense of some underlying rigor, because that tends to indicate that the later storytelling will be precise and careful. I'm worried it will devolve into Star Trek, where they literally wrote their scripts saying "Wesley adjusts [something technical] and fixes the problem."

An example of the kind of storytelling I like would be the first three or four seasons of Stargate. In that world, things worked more or less correctly. If a device violated physical constraints as we knew them, it surprised and confused the science types, and they'd put effort into understanding why it worked that way. Once they did, it would change their worldview, and the device would keep working that same way in later episodes. And they might, later still, start exploring ramifications of what that change meant. It was quite good science fiction, some of the best I've seen on television.

I'm not looking for anything that exacting, but a sense that the writers actually understand why things work the way they do would be very reassuring. At the moment, I'm not getting that.

Malor wrote:
maverickz wrote:

And in my opinion that's totally fine. That's not what the show is about.

Yeah..... kinda, I guess. I dunno. I guess I'd like a sense of some underlying rigor, because that tends to indicate that the later storytelling will be precise and careful. I'm worried it will devolve into Star Trek, where they literally wrote their scripts saying "Wesley adjusts [something technical] and fixes the problem."

That's a dirty lie!

Wesley was never useful.

*sigh* Well, I dunno about that one.

Spoiler:

Seems we're in full on Battlestar Galactica mode now. :(

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

*sigh* Well, I dunno about that one.

Spoiler:

Seems we're in full on Battlestar Galactica mode now. :(

It has been a very prevalent theory since the beginning of the series, foreshadowed by only seeing four characters wake up. Dolores, Maeve, Teddy (on the train) and this episode's reveal.

Spoiler:

We previously saw Bernard wake up and take a call from his ex-wife.

Badferret wrote:
tuffalobuffalo wrote:

*sigh* Well, I dunno about that one.

Spoiler:

Seems we're in full on Battlestar Galactica mode now. :(

It has been a very prevalent theory since the beginning of the series, foreshadowed by only seeing four characters wake up. Dolores, Maeve, Teddy (on the train) and this episode's reveal.

Spoiler:

We previously saw Bernard wake up and take a call from his ex-wife.

Spoiler:

Oh, I was well aware Bernard was the most prominent android possibility. I'm okay with Bernard being an android, too, because it explains all his interrogation sessions. I just hope this isn't the beginning of a "spot the android" type show.

Spoiler:

Yes, he needs to be the only one. If there are any more, it'll really mess up the show.

That said: hah, called it. From page 5:

Malor wrote:

edit: yet another thought... so far, there have been exactly two 'real' characters who have been hinted as being hosts. With Bernard, they almost slap you in the face with it, when he's in bed with Administrator Lady. He talks about hosts trying to improve their emulation of people by talking to one another, and she asks him if that's what he's doing now. His single-note backstory also supports that idea, being a very painful background that dominates his thinking to the point that they don't need much else. His session with his (ex?) wife looks a lot like the conversations that Dolores has with her father. And, I note, he follows Ford's instructions exactly, including covering for his mistakes in silence. If Ford wanted to protect himself from annoying Board meddling, putting a host in between to take the heat would seem intelligent.

(removing speculation on QA guy; he hasn't been enough of a character to be a likely host)

Oh, and edit to add another idea that was cooking in the back of my head for awhile, and finally surfaced:

Spoiler:

The host that's being built in the 'slow' lab might be a duplicate of Administrator Lady. That would be an okay replacement, because we know about that one.

Malor:

Spoiler:

Yeah, that's some good stuff you brought up. The only thing I'm wondering about is there was a Decrypted podcast where I feel like they debunked the Bernard being an android theory for a specific reason. I'm gonna go back and listen to that and find what the objection was. I may be misremembering things, though.

I remember them debunking Two Timelines, pretty authoritatively, but not this development.

Trompe L'Oeil:

a style of painting in which things are painted in a way that makes them look like real objects

I prefer the more straightforward definition: trompe-l'œil, French for "deceive the eye"

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode? He believes so strongly that he is in control, but does he know what's going on with Maeve?

BadKen wrote:

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode?

I think he believes he can cover for it well enough that nobody will even realize there was a crime.

He believes so strongly that he is in control, but does he know what's going on with Maeve?

There seem to be at least three agents at work on the hosts: Ford, Theresa for the Board, and something related to Arnold, whether or not that actually is Arnold. My current belief is that nobody knows how far Maeve has come, not even Arnold. And damn, what an actress Thandie Newton is. Watching her and Hopkins in the same show is a real treat. I hope they get some time on the same screen.

Some more musing on the big spoiler in this episode, specifically about a very clever bit of cinematography:

Spoiler:

In the house where Bernard takes Theresa, when he first walks past the wall on the left side, it's just a wall. It's very, very clearly a plain wall. Then the camera pans right to zoom in on Bernard's face, as he's looking into the dark, confused. Theresa asks, "What's this door?" And when the camera zooms back and pans left again, there's a door where the wall was a second ago. It's all one smooth shot -- wall, pan away, pan back, and it's a door.

They were, in other words, showing us what Bernard saw; the door was not there for him, so it wasn't there for us either. This, in turn, means that we're facing Unreliable Narrator. Anytime we're seeing from the host's perspective, what's on screen may not be accurate. That's a very unusual choice for television, which tends to present the things you yourself see as absolute truth. In Westworld, that ain't the case. The screen can lie to us. That's a VERY big deal, and it was very subtle. It was a ten-second shot that puts everything we've seen into question.

I saw musing on reddit's Westworld sub about the picture of Arnold and Ford. Multiple people pointed out that the framing on that picture is weird, that it really looks like there should be a third person. I saw two strong suggestions that resonated with me: A) the missing person is Arnold, and we didn't see him because Bernard can't see him, and B) the reason Bernard can't see him is because he's modeled on Arnold. Just like he couldn't see his own schematic when Therese showed it to him, he can't see Arnold in photographs because that's him.

I have no idea if that's the truth or not, but I find the idea fascinating.

edit to add an ancillary thought:

Spoiler:

This is also why Ford was instantly there in the house, in the prior episode; he came out of the door that Bernard couldn't see.

Malor wrote:
BadKen wrote:

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode?

I think he believes he can cover for it well enough that nobody will even realize there was a crime.

I agree - I'm pretty sure he can cover his tracks. I'm talking about Bernard's potential reaction. He may think he has Bernard on a leash, but I think he is in for an unpleasant surprise.

Also, I don't think Theresa had any malicious intent broadcasting host information offsite. I'm willing to take her at her word that was just trying to help the board protect its intellectual property. Ford is definitely unhinged enough that he would nuke it all if it looks like he is going to lose control. Then again, that might not be such a bad thing if Delos' intent is to make super-spies and super-soldiers.

Should William actually fear for his life on a train full of explosives?

I'd appreciate some rigor as well.

Malor wrote:
BadKen wrote:

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode?

I think he believes he can cover for it well enough that nobody will even realize there was a crime.

Who do you think was being built in the background of that scene? I'm pretty sure I know who.

Spoiler:

It's Teresa.

Also, Anthony Hopkins is channeling some series Hannibal Lecter in that scene.

Spoiler:

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/zBhsPNm.jpg)

maverickz wrote:
Malor wrote:
BadKen wrote:

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode?

I think he believes he can cover for it well enough that nobody will even realize there was a crime.

Who do you think was being built in the background of that scene? I'm pretty sure I know who.

Spoiler:

It's Teresa.

That was my thought, too.

Rat Boy wrote:
maverickz wrote:
Malor wrote:
BadKen wrote:

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode?

I think he believes he can cover for it well enough that nobody will even realize there was a crime.

Who do you think was being built in the background of that scene? I'm pretty sure I know who.

Spoiler:

It's Teresa.

That was my thought, too.

Mine as well.

Edit: I also believe that she may have seen a drawing of herself at some point when she and Bernard where looking at the papers. I need to watch that scene again and determine if that's a possibility. You would be able to tell by her expression. I guess that would make things complicated, though, given that she would doubt her humanity during that scene as well as fear for her life.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:
maverickz wrote:
Malor wrote:
BadKen wrote:

How can Ford not know there will be repercussions for what he made happen at the end of this episode?

I think he believes he can cover for it well enough that nobody will even realize there was a crime.

Who do you think was being built in the background of that scene? I'm pretty sure I know who.

Spoiler:

It's Teresa.

That was my thought, too.

Mine as well.

Edit: I also believe that she may have seen a drawing of herself at some point when she and Bernard where looking at the papers. I need to watch that scene again and determine if that's a possibility. You would be able to tell by her expression. I guess that would make things complicated, though, given that she would doubt her humanity during that scene as well as fear for her life.

There was definitely a Dolores one in that stack. But I didn't see one for her, I tried to pay attention for it.

I was wrong. I just watched that part again, and I don't believe there was a drawing of her in the stack, or at least she didn't see it. There was one of Robert (child) on top, Delores, and Bernard. Given the amount of paper shuffling she did and the fact that she handed the papers off to Bernard as soon as she got to him, she couldn't have seen a drawing of herself. There are enough papers for there to be one, but there's no reason to believe she would have seen one of herself.

There's a potential that the Bernard android is a human replacement, but I kinda don't think he is. There wouldn't be a lot of point to that story-wise. Trying to explain that in wouldn't really add to the plot and would use up quite a bit of screen time. It's easiest and works well just to move on assuming that he was a plant all along that Ford created.