Parce, Domine, parce populo tuo:
ne in aeternum irascaris nobis.Spare, Lord, spare your people:
Be not angry with us forever.
The first episode didn't wow me, but I am here for Thandie Newton in Nazi-World.
As you are all aware, I really disliked the first and second season's writing. I still watched it because the production is incredible. If they just focus on amazing production like they did with S3E1, I'll keep watching. I liked when the robot murdered a bunch of crappy humans.
Robots don’t kill people. People kill people.
(People online have complained about the “political implications” of that line. (@_@) )
I'm just here so I don't get fined.
War World did not disappoint. I rather enjoyed that episode.
The first episode had a after credit scene. Just a heads up.
The first episode had a after credit scene. Just a heads up.
Pretty sure they all have and will.
The first episode had a after credit scene. Just a heads up.
It did end up getting repeated at the beginning of the second episode, so don't fret if you missed it.
I'm surprised the lute player was riffing the Westworld theme, not the theme of... you know...
Yeah, I also expected that.
I wasn't as impressed with this episode. Maybe because it returned to the old Westworld vibe, unlike the first one.
Baron Of Hell wrote:The first episode had a after credit scene. Just a heads up.
Pretty sure they all have and will.
wait, WHAT!?!?!
ranalin wrote:Baron Of Hell wrote:The first episode had a after credit scene. Just a heads up.
Pretty sure they all have and will.
wait, WHAT!?!?!
All HBO shows have the trailer for the next episode after the credits and some will have a discussion with the creators about the episode you just watched. Not every episode for that. The latest trend is to have the discussion part happen every 3 episodes.
I came here after seeing Episode 3, but I won't spoil till the thread is updated. So bouncing back, War World... Lee, Hector, loops. This makes me miss the simple idea of the park just existing and the daily issues and workings of the park. Anyway, since this was, in essence her episode, I'm looking forward to seeing what's going on with Maeve. She seems to be in a compromising position and if Season 2 taught me anything, she doesn't like playing by the rules.
My favorite theory I've read
Cirac is the virtual personification of Rehoboam.
As for everything else, I have no effing clue what is going on. Who's in Hale? No idea. Who's in Dolores? No idea.
There is no justice if Tessa Thompson doesn't get an Emmy nomination for episode 3.
Damn Westworld, you cyberpunk as hell! Love it!
My theory is that there's a second Dolores in Hale's robot body. Possibly an earlier version of Dolores, one that's not quite the terminator yet. It's a long shot I know.
I think they may have gotten over zealous with the teaser and trailers, even though we already seen that some of them were miss direction.
Maeve says in a teaser that she suspects it's Teddy and nothing that Hale has said convinces me otherwise. Delores broke Teddy but he still relied on her heavily, she keeps saying that the person in Hale means everything too her and Teddy was her world. If it's not him I'll actually be surprised and that would be lovely.
This season has seemed pretty straight forward. As someone who is used to HBO and other channels kinda having complex stories where I had no clue where I was being taken, I find it weird to find myself going "I think I know where this is going" already.
My theory:
I suspect heavily that Rehoboam is going to be the root for everything. From Westworld creation, to the host revolt, to the way the humans and the hosts have reacted. Cirac pretty much straight up told host Hale that real Hale knew what was going to happen at the park, and that she probably also knew of her death. That video she made for her son was both clues to the host in the future as well as an emotional cornerstone which could cause whom ever is in her body to potentially merge with her.
So far this season feels very different yet there are pieces of familiarity from season 1 and 2. I'm not hating 3, I'm just feeling like there is something coming to blind side me and each episode that doesn't just adds to that feeling that, this can't be right and I must be missing something.
My biggest thought is that everything seems way too straightforward for a Westworld season. Things seem to be starting at the beginning and going until they get to the end.
I'd actually prefer that to the super-intricate wankery in S1 and S2. But Nolan really loves that kind of deception, so I'm thinking he probably hasn't abandoned it yet.
Remember that Teddy went into The Valley Beyond. Unless Dolores somehow copied his pearl before he left, I don't think she has it. Plus there are three more mystery pearls.
Episode 3 did a wee bit of time f*ckery, too, in that the exchange between Dolores and Hale at the start was some time in the past - before Dolores re-made Bernard. It bugged me a bit, because there was no obvious narrative device that set it in the past, and it wasn't really the start of a narrative thread set in the past. I think the producers got a little too used to playing with time in seasons 1 & 2.
After watching Ep 3, I'm now thinking that we're watching at least two timelines.... there's one with confident Charlotte dominating the board, and one with weepy, unsure Charlotte who doesn't know who she is. I'm thinking that maybe confident Charlotte has Dolores inside, but that she's inhabited by someone else in the earlier segments.
I have no idea where Bernard and Maeve slot in. Bernard could be quite a bit later, since Dolores built him, and he was working long enough as a butcher to grow a full beard. I don't think we've gotten any connections from Maeve back to the other segments, so I think there's probably no way to tell when her story is happening yet.
Before episode 3, I thought Hale was Teddy, but the word predator came up every so often and the only one that comes to my mind at first is the man in black, which is kind of funny since she's acting as the temporary president of Delos while in fact he's the president.
Is is it just me that's waiting for Jim Caviezel and Michael Emerson to appear in this show. Rehobaum seems to come straight out of Person of Interest (another Nolan joint).
Went back and re-watched the end of S2. The scene just before the credits was Delores bringing Bernard back online in the real world. She tells them they're both needed for what's ahead, and they probably won't survive, but they'll set their kind free, similar to what she says in S3.
I'm wondering if she's referring to the other pearls being held captive where Maeve escaped. Or if Rehoboam has taken over the Valley Beyond. Or if those pearls ARE the Valley Beyond.
The scene after the credits is the one where William is met by is daughter in the ruins of the fidelity testing facility. She says that she's testing him, and that he's another in a long line of attempts at reproducing the William. They have a conversation about choice, which I think is interesting now in light of Delores's chat with Caleb about him making a choice she didn't expect.
I'm leaning toward's Wolfen's theory about Rehoboam being behind everything. At least behind gathering data on the guests. It's a way for it get more detailed data and make more accurate predictions about the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world.
I think Rehoboam's success is based on forcing people into situations where they make those high-probability choices though. It fails when the probabilities drop, so the fidelity tests never succeed. I wonder if Ford made some leap of intuition that Rehoboam couldn't, allowing him to make a successful copy of himself.
I think it's Delores inside Charlotte as well. The long cut she makes in her arm is a lot like the thread Delores pulls from it in season 1.
Just read the best theory I've seen so far, the Two Worlds theory.
Not just multiple timelines, multiple worlds. One is the world inside Rehoboam's simulation. The other is the real world. The key to the difference is a subtle feature of episode 3: when Hale watches the video from the park, it is very different the two times she watches it. In one, Hale is uncharacteristically a blubbery mommy saying how much she loves her boy. In the other, she is honest, and apologizes to him for not being there, and explains what she was doing. Much more Hale-ish.
The thought is that Rehoboam doesn't know enough about human nature to properly simulate how people will really act. Kind of the way that in episode 2, Maeve knew that Sizemore was artificial when he started going goo-goo over her. Sizemore was a self-centered prick, but in the end, he sacrificed himself for Maeve, becoming enough of a good person to do the right thing. The simulation had no idea that Sizemore would have been capable of such a sacrifice, not being aware of the depth and complexity of human consciousness.
Rehoboam does not have the data that Delos collected in the park. If it did, it would be much more able to simulate (and thus manipulate) the real world. It knows enough to manipulate people to do whatever it is that it wants, but it can still be surprised. For example, it is currently unable to simulate anything about Dolores, thus the anomalies showing up any time she does anything significant. It knows Dolores is out there, but it has no idea how to model her behavior.
The person who came up with the theory goes further, suggesting that perhaps clothing is a hint to what world is on screen. Dolores and Caleb are nearly always wearing dark colors (I've seen one exception where Dolores is in a white dress seated in a futurecar). Hale's outfits switch from black to white, and they align fairly well with what an ideal, simulated Hale would do, and the actions of a host Hale still in the process of assimilating real Hale's Forge Book.
Check out the thread for more of an explanation of these ideas.
Keeping Things Whole
Mark Strand
In a field
I am the absence
of field.
This is
always the case.
Wherever I am
I am what is missing.When I walk
I part the air
and always
the air moves in
to fill the spaces
where my body's been.We all have reasons
for moving.
I move
to keep things whole.
Rehoboam is not the only AI with incomplete knowledge of human behavior. Caleb surprised Dolores because her knowledge of humans is based on Delos Forge data, which is only a model of behavior in the park. Today, people behave very differently in video games than in reality. A GTA NPC would have a pretty warped view of humanity. Several people, like Logan, thought that the park shows you who you are, but that’s not really true. Visitors may be playing roles as much as the hosts.
So even if Rehoboam gets the Delos data, it might not be all that helpful. Dolores will still have an advantage, because she has more direct experience of humans in a role playing context, and she is currently interacting directly with humans in meatspace. I find it fascinating that Rehoboam’s disadvantage is that it does not have agents it in the world interacting directly with humans. The technology for that intimate data gathering to be trivial certainly exists. That is perhaps a reflection of the hubris of its creator, who perhaps himself had little interaction with average folks. Data on aggregate behavior is useful: it has given Rehoboam a huge influence in society. But it isn’t the whole picture, and that gives the AI a significant blind spot.
I'm totally in on the Two Worlds theory. It makes total sense.
This discussion makes me want to do a rewatch already. Looks like I’ve been missing a lot.
Yeah, I'd completely missed those details. Two Worlds sounds entirely plausible.
Called it.
I think episode four has destroyed the Two Worlds theory, for now. It seems that the release date teaser from before season 3 is fully coming into effect, some of the events showing the lead up to Westworld's creation are being explored. It seems that it took fourteen years for the first version of Rehoboam to go online, after that it took another 19 years till either Westworld went online, or the incident at the parks.
Congrats Maverickz on calling that, I'm shocked they revealed that so soon but it was a good play. Now to see how multiple copies of oneself can go absolutely wrong.
So far... I've been more upset how things went in season 2. So I'm willing to just sit back and enjoy the ride a bit.
I'm really glad they didn't wait long for the reveal. I think it would have been an unnecessary thread for too long.
I love, LOVE, how cyberpunk they are going. Feels like they are taking bits from all kinds of cyberpunk novels. I really want to see where this goes.
I'm very confused about what's going on with the man in black though. Didn't season 2 end with him being in some host testing room? How did he get out and end up in that house. Honestly I'm not yet ready to let go of the two worlds theory.
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