Interesting, but Charlotte isn't Arnold's daughter.
I read that fan theory and it just didn't make any sense to me. Arnold's daughter would know what Arnold looked like. She shows no signs of treating Bernard as if she believed he was her father.
Not understanding all the Spoiler tags after reading the opening post (fair game after Sunday airing).
My fault. I shouldn't have spoiler tagged my earlier posting and set up a competing expectation. I'm not going to go back and edit it, but do feel free to keep the discussion open. I also changed the subject heading, as per BadKen's suggestion.
Interesting, but Charlotte isn't Arnold's daughter.
I read that fan theory and it just didn't make any sense to me. Arnold's daughter would know what Arnold looked like. She shows no signs of treating Bernard as if she believed he was her father.
Or she treats him the way she does because she knows he is a host and not her father. I am not sold on the idea, but I am not dismissing it at this point, either.
The psych profile screenshot is not the most interesting thing there. Upper right corner has "Subject 002" written. What's that about?
The psych profile screenshot is not the most interesting thing there. Upper right corner has "Subject 002" written. What's that about?
Good catch! Could William be the second person in the history of Westworld that was scanned and tracked/analyzed? Bigger question then is who was Subject 001?
Probably Delos
Yeah, or his boy, Logan.
Yeah, or his boy, Logan.
And he had been to the park at least once before taking William there. And he seemed awfully well informed about what was really going on there when he started lamenting to Dolores at that party.
bhchrist wrote:Yeah, or his boy, Logan.
And he had been to the park at least once before taking William there. And he seemed awfully well informed about what was really going on there when he started lamenting to Dolores at that party.
My take is that Ford et al wanted the park for the sake of the park. It was Delos that wanted to turn the park into "something else".
I'm having trouble imagining how they'll manage to wrap this up in one more episode. I suspect we're probably going to be left hanging. Last year's close was pretty satisfying, even as annoying as I find "lying camera" to be as a technique, but I'm thinking this one may not be.
I'm having trouble imagining how they'll manage to wrap this up in one more episode. I suspect we're probably going to be left hanging. Last year's close was pretty satisfying, even as annoying as I find "lying camera" to be as a technique, but I'm thinking this one may not be.
It's ninety mintues, but I agree with you. Whatever the twist is, I’m keeping my expectations low as this was a very uneven season for me. This show is best when it’s about its characters, not it’s mystery boxes.
A very twisty ending would be everyone getting to the Forge and seeing lots of humans having not-fully deranged host replicas going out and about.
S3 would be a high production value, well-written-but-still-makes-no-sense Battle Star Galactica with the whole Cylon nonsense minus the Greek deity tie in that didn't work in the first place.
Holy stromboli that was bad! I'd like the last ninety minutes of my life back please. My wife and I will NOT be tuning in to season 3 after that horrid season.
I thought it was a great conclusion. Wrapped up the threads of this season and set up for ... something ... next time around. Lots of people dead, but lots of hosts might be back (as the camera lingered on several "dead" hosts near the end).
I loved the design of the Forge, too.
This episode, like the whole season, played with time a lot, but the script and director left enough clues, visual or otherwise, for me to orient myself at the start of each time shift.
I'd love to see a time diagram of this season!
I thought it ended well. Enough to tie up the mysteries introduced in the season, but also room for more. The show was best this season when it focused on singular characters or spaces.
Note there is a after credits scene.
I really liked the ending and the series as a whole.
Yeah, I saw an interview with Lisa Joy and she said the after-credits scene takes place in the far future.
The wife and I enjoyed this episode. Thought most characters wound up where we expected they would.
Wasn’t surprised by the security guy being a host (I figured it out back in like ep. 2 or ep. 3).
The wife mostly figured out Bernard and Dolores’ conclusion. (Aside from the Hale element.)
Our biggest question is who are in those memory cores that got off the island?
Loved it. Just straight up loved it. Didn't get a few bits of it, which only makes me love it more. Finally a damn challenging show, and one that doesn't make me groan or roll my eyes in addition.
I don't think Stubbs is really a host. He was just using all those host metaphors in his chat with "Hale" to demonstrate that he is on the side of the hosts, not the crazy Delos immortal humans program. Also, I think he knows Hale is not herself, due to the pointed comment that his job is to look after the hosts... in the park.
I don't think Stubbs is really a host. He was just using all those host metaphors in his chat with "Hale" to demonstrate that he is on the side of the hosts, not the crazy Delos immortal humans program. Also, I think he knows Hale is not herself, due to the pointed comment that his job is to look after the hosts... in the park.
I think he is. He said he has been with Ford from the beginning (30 years or so was the beginning). They were so heavy handed with his wink wink nudge nudge speech, using host and programming terms. I agree that he knew Hale/Delores was a host. Time will tell.
This is pretty friggin cool. NSFW, spoiler due to nude Clementine.
I don't know what to think of this episode. I fell asleep so many times during the show I'm not sure what happened. It was weird, I was fine before and after the show, but during it, I just could not stay awake. I'll try again tonight.
I don't know what to think of this episode. I fell asleep so many times during the show I'm not sure what happened. It was weird, I was fine before and after the show, but during it, I just could not stay awake. I'll try again tonight.
Well, this show is exhausting to watch!
HBO ran a season 2 marathon before the finale yesterday. I left in on in the background, and after knowing everyone's goals (or at least their intermediate goals), it wasn't hard to figure out about 80% of the finale. Knowing that a sea came out of nowhere and it was full of hosts that were headed to the Valley Beyond, as soon as the S1 premiere started up, I immediately went, "Oh, they flooded the valley, duh." And it was already apparently from the last couple of episodes that the new world the hosts were heading to was the Forge.
I had forgotten about the underground scene with Charlotte (prior to Dolores-as-Charlotte showing up). Probably because it was easy to dismiss at the time.
There were points where they very deliberately tried to make it look like Bernard's trip with Elsie was the second time through, rather than the first. The excuse being that Bernard is actually in the process of sorting through his de-addressed memories and is "unstuck" in them.
I thought the giant host-downloader was a bit hokey, but I guess that was better than them all plugging into a really big USB hub. Also, I wasn't keen on Logan being the Forge's personality. Is the Forge self-aware, or is Logan just a way to interface with it?
I think Stubbs is a host. I remember having a discussion in this thread about it during Season 1, so there was already some ambiguity there before.
I got a good laugh out of MiB's, "Oh f*ck, I'm already in the thing, aren't I?" It was apparent to me that it was in the far future. In fact, it almost looked post-apocalyptic, but that's probably a stretch. Being in the middle of nowhere, the Forge would look like that after years of being abandoned. I suspect that "Emily" in this scene is actually Dolores. With all the time she spent with William/MiB, she'd be the one to test his fidelity.
And I guess this leads up to some speculation for season 3. Who does she have with her in the bag? I think Teddy is one, she took out his brain housing. Peter Abernathy might be another. Something she said in the finale made me think she's going to put them in replicas of prominent people that were killed in the park.
The scene with Dolores, Bernard, and Charlotte at the end made it look like she's duplicated herself, although I suppose it's possible she put someone else in Charlotte's body. But if she's in Dolores, Charlotte, and Emily, I'm wondering if she's going to go all Agent Smith on the world.
Where did the Forge get uploaded to? I can't recall any hints during this season, so I suppose that will be something season 3 revolves around.
Who does she have with her in the bag? I think Teddy is one, she took out his brain housing. Peter Abernathy might be another. Something she said in the finale made me think she's going to put them in replicas of prominent people that were killed in the park.
Trying to figure this out as well and keep ruling out host rather than ruling in. The question is, can those sent to robot digital heaven also be in the real world? If not, then that rules out Teddy and Akecheta. Also, Maeve, Armistice, Hector, and Hanaryo are still in Westworld, along with Clementine. Perhaps it is possible that Dolores pulled the brain marbles from some of them.
FYI, Jeffrey Wright doing an AMA on Reddit right now.
deftly wrote:Who does she have with her in the bag? I think Teddy is one, she took out his brain housing. Peter Abernathy might be another. Something she said in the finale made me think she's going to put them in replicas of prominent people that were killed in the park.
Trying to figure this out as well and keep ruling out host rather than ruling in. The question is, can those sent to robot digital heaven also be in the real world? If not, then that rules out Teddy and Akecheta. Also, Maeve, Armistice, Hector, and Hanaryo are still in Westworld, along with Clementine. Perhaps it is possible that Dolores pulled the brain marbles from some of them.
FYI, Jeffrey Wright doing an AMA on Reddit right now.
If she took the brain eggs from The Forge they are likely real people, not hosts.
bhchrist wrote:deftly wrote:Who does she have with her in the bag? I think Teddy is one, she took out his brain housing. Peter Abernathy might be another. Something she said in the finale made me think she's going to put them in replicas of prominent people that were killed in the park.
Trying to figure this out as well and keep ruling out host rather than ruling in. The question is, can those sent to robot digital heaven also be in the real world? If not, then that rules out Teddy and Akecheta. Also, Maeve, Armistice, Hector, and Hanaryo are still in Westworld, along with Clementine. Perhaps it is possible that Dolores pulled the brain marbles from some of them.
FYI, Jeffrey Wright doing an AMA on Reddit right now.
If she took the brain eggs from The Forge they are likely real people, not hosts.
She had an extended period of time as Halores to get brain marbles from hosts.
Weren't you done with this lifestealing, horrid, exhausting show? 
PaladinTom wrote:bhchrist wrote:deftly wrote:Who does she have with her in the bag? I think Teddy is one, she took out his brain housing. Peter Abernathy might be another. Something she said in the finale made me think she's going to put them in replicas of prominent people that were killed in the park.
Trying to figure this out as well and keep ruling out host rather than ruling in. The question is, can those sent to robot digital heaven also be in the real world? If not, then that rules out Teddy and Akecheta. Also, Maeve, Armistice, Hector, and Hanaryo are still in Westworld, along with Clementine. Perhaps it is possible that Dolores pulled the brain marbles from some of them.
FYI, Jeffrey Wright doing an AMA on Reddit right now.
If she took the brain eggs from The Forge they are likely real people, not hosts.
She had an extended period of time as Halores to get brain marbles from hosts.
Weren't you done with this lifestealing, horrid, exhausting show? :)
I want to like it.. I really do. It's gorgeous, has fantastic acting and world-building, but the bad just outweighs the good for me. The episode-to-episode story telling overall leaves a lot to be desired for me. And I'm just plain over the time-shifting and mystery boxes too.
There were three episodes I enjoyed this season: Delos, Shogun-world, and Akecheta. I may binge S3 someday, but I'm certainly not watching it week-to-week next year - probably alone too as my wife also seems to have noped out completely.
It's just like video games, books, movies, etc - there's too much on the pile! I'd rather watch Breaking Bad or The Wire with my limited time.
Everyone: "You haven't seen Breaking Bad or The Wire?!!!"
Me: "I know. Shut up!"
The following article sheds some light on the finale and the future. Spoilers abound, but if you were confused it may clear some things up.
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