So now we've got directly after season 1 timeline (split between four perspectives), a week later timeline (with just "Bernard") and a Matrix world that directly intersects with the first but may be different because, well, that's the show.
Hello old friend.
While we may not know for sure whose mind marble Bernard retrieved last episode, it now looks like he has one too... It would be just like Ford to preserve Bernard's mind, but in a way that he could maintain complete control over him.
Looked to me like Dolores is starting to have regrets, too.
So now we've got directly after season 1 timeline (split between four perspectives), a week later timeline (with just "Bernard") and a Matrix world that directly intersects with the first but may be different because, well, that's the show.
My brain hurts.
While we may not know for sure whose mind marble Bernard retrieved last episode, it now looks like he has one too... It would be just like Ford to preserve Bernard's mind, but in a way that he could maintain complete control over him.
Ford was the only one who had any hand in programming Bernard. I assume that was Ford's mind, and Bernard's flashbacks are of Ford forcing him to do what was needed to accomplish that task. They were unable to get James Delos stable in a host, but maybe it's possible to stabilize in the Cradle.
In the very first scene with Delores, she mentions fidelity testing, which is what they were doing with the James Delos hosts. Since they're testing with an encounter that was established to have been with Arnold, I think we can assume original Arnold's mind is backed up somewhere.
And now there's the question of which scenes over season 2, if any, were actually in the Cradle? So instead of switching timelines, they've been switching realities?
The CR4-DL video from HBO. Worth a watch.
I'm going the Cradle let's them pull some freaky, impressionistic kinda VFX off. Cowboys and samurai have been fun but Legion-like weirdness could add a lot.
I'm hoping the Cradle let's them pull some freaky, impressionistic kinda VFX off. Cowboys and samurai have been fun but Legion-like weirdness could add a lot.
This show seems committed to ensuring the viewer doesn't know when or where ("real" or "virtual", and I feel like I need more air quotes around those) any particular scene fits into the timeline. And going into the Cradle is a big red flag that nothing we're shown can be 100% trusted (if we somehow didn't already know that).
This show seems committed to ensuring the viewer doesn't know when or where ("real" or "virtual", and I feel like I need more air quotes around those) any particular scene fits into the timeline. And going into the Cradle is a big red flag that nothing we're shown can be 100% trusted (if we somehow didn't already know that).
Yup, and is why I’m about checked out of this season. The mystery box aspect this show has grown really tired for me. At this point, I can’t see a finale that saves this season.
Katy wrote:This show seems committed to ensuring the viewer doesn't know when or where ("real" or "virtual", and I feel like I need more air quotes around those) any particular scene fits into the timeline. And going into the Cradle is a big red flag that nothing we're shown can be 100% trusted (if we somehow didn't already know that).
Yup, and is why I’m about checked out of this season. The mystery box aspect this show has grown really tired for me. At this point, I can’t see a finale that saves this season.
Does it need saving? I love that it's not handing the answers over.
I remains to be seen, but I feel like this season is more up front with the different time lines and giving pretty clear indicators of which one is being depicted. Bernard crosses over but otherwise most characters don’t so they signify where we’re at. Yes, the cradle potentially throws that off some but it remains to be seen since so far we’ve seen the cradle remains in a “normal” state for the park (Dolores shopping in town, etc.) save for, of course, Ford being there.
Mysteries with no answers are pointless. If your show is an episodic format, you have to serve to entertain every episode - not just the last one. I see people online saying things like "this episode will probably be great when you go back and watch it after the season finale."
Umm, no. That's not how it's supposed to work if you want me to keep watching until the finale.
To each their own, but for me this season has been too many questions and too little answers.
I thought Akane no Mai was an outstanding standalone story. Phase Space, not so much. This season has been a mix, but it has definitely switched between straight storytelling and "arc" episodes.
I don't view Westworld as an episodic show. I view each season as a ten hour movie. In that, I think, they succeed wonderfully. Having to air the story in ten pieces hurts it somewhat. It constrains the creators, and in some cases, the constraints are obvious and not very pretty. I do think that seen as a whole, there are no wasted scenes, while watching it in pieces, there are scenes that don't make a whole lot of sense in the context of a single episode.
So, I'm not convinced there's only one Bernard operating right now. Pretty sure I saw a few more in the previews for the next episode.
So, I'm not convinced there's only one Bernard operating right now. Pretty sure I saw a few more in the previews for the next episode.
Yeah, I noticed that as well. Looks like there are several of them.
Mysteries with no answers are pointless. If your show is an episodic format, you have to serve to entertain every episode - not just the last one. I see people online saying things like "this episode will probably be great when you go back and watch it after the season finale."
Umm, no. That's not how it's supposed to work if you want me to keep watching until the finale.
To each their own, but for me this season has been too many questions and too little answers.
I'm in the same boat. I think I'm done. I've been getting a distinct "Lost" vibe from the show lately and have decided that's a signal for me to stop watching.
That whole Cradle idea is just so, so, so bad, because it's a place where literally anything can happen, at any time. If anything can be a simulation, then everything we've seen so far could all be a sim, have nothing to do with reality, and have left the real world untouched. Dolores could actually be still on the farm with her Daddy, while what we've been watching is a sim-Dolores that Ford is debugging. The Cradle we see might just be an imaginary projection within an outer Cradle. (ie, Inception.)
In a series that has already demonstrated that it's actively lying to you with its camera work and misleading cuts, this is about the worst development I can imagine. When stories get that meta, they're not stories anymore, they're just solipsism. It ends up being very similar to the Bioshock Infinite-style multiverse crap, where consequences for actions don't exist, and things happen purely because the writers say so, not because they're reasonable and logical outcomes of choices the characters have made.
edit: it could still work, I suppose, and I have been enjoying the season so far, but they're going to have to handle that with exquisite care to avoid totally fouling up their narrative.
It's a little different when they're breaking the fourth wall so thoroughly. In that case, you got to be in on the joke, because you knew why it was funny. (same actor played a different character.) And it didn't really invalidate what you'd seen, it was just purely amusing, you and the screenwriter sharing a little joke.
It's not really comparable to how multiversing/simulated reality can ruin stories.
I am pretty sure the Newhart clip was meant as a joke and not biting, satirical commentary. I chuckled.
Spoiler, I suppose:
Everyone's ability to aim and the deadliness of the bullets seems more dependent on the needs of the plot than any internal consistency. I'd blame Ford for that, except it applies to the Delos team as well.
Also I lost track of the six different places in the timeline we might be in again. I'm wishing it were a bit more obvious, especially as characters start coming together in different combinations.
I'd say there will be fewer characters next week, but the only one I'm at all certain is actually 100% dead is Abernathy, though Dolores has his brain, so even he could come back.
So how we naming this?
Fordnard? Bernord?
So how we naming this?
Spoiler:Fordnard? Bernord?
Terminator: Cowboy?
This is a silly plotline but it is still a fun show. I keep waiting for a come with me if you want to live moment.
It looks like Anthony Hopkins is here to stay.
Next week looks interesting. I am really interested in exploring unseen areas of the park.
What was with the sloppy writing of the scene with the soldier and the blonde host in the computer room? That was beyond unbelievable and the girlfriend and I were both really annoyed that they couldn't come up with anything more interesting than the usual "pretty girl seduction."
Yeah, I kept thinking, "man, just be a professional and put her down". Plus what was she doing there if she needed his equipment to accomplish her mission?
I was really disappointed in this week's episode. Zero character development and nearly zero plot advancement. Everybody's motivations seemed out of whack to me. I really felt sorry for Jeffrey Wright (plays Bernard) because all he got to do this episode was stand around and look confused. In many, many shots. And then there was the interminable exposition by Ford. Not to mention the ridiculous plot armor worn by William and Maeve. And someone already brought up the unbelievable seduction scene. I mean, sure, Angela is super hot, like dated Elon Musk hot, but really?
On the plus side, Teddy 2.0 is totally Terminator-level badass.
Overall I am really enjoying this season, but this episode? Bleh. Did not like.
On a side note, really cool article on the meaning of Les Écorchés. My favorite meaning (put forth by a native French speaker): "The Damaged."
I was totally expecting either Maeve or the man in black to be Dead dead. But, looks like that's not the case. I guess they still have three episodes before the end.
Ford can't last too long out of the cradle. Eventually his persona will degrade. I'm just wondering if that will drive Bernard mad when it happens.
Pages