Theory crafting:
Spoiler:In some previews we see Maeve in a kimono with a katana, presumably in Shogun World. One can reasonably assume that she goes to Shogun World and does stuff. But... it's also reasonable to assume that hosts in various Worlds are copies. I think it's entirely plausible that each host from West World has an identical copy in all the other Worlds.
Ooh, that's a cool idea.
I keep wondering if there is any other people who are secretly hosts who don't know it yet.
maverickz wrote:Theory crafting:
Spoiler:In some previews we see Maeve in a kimono with a katana, presumably in Shogun World. One can reasonably assume that she goes to Shogun World and does stuff. But... it's also reasonable to assume that hosts in various Worlds are copies. I think it's entirely plausible that each host from West World has an identical copy in all the other Worlds.
Ooh, that's a cool idea.
I keep wondering if there is any other people who are secretly hosts who don't know it yet.
I bet there are. I can't place any yet, but I bet there are.
I am also not digging Dolores at all this season. She wakes up, and has now become more wooden and one-dimensional as ever. Plus, I feel like they retconned the end of last season as I had assumed that all of the hosts were rebelling. Was it always just a handful?
More Maeve and Bernard please!
My understanding is that they they rebelled, but some (most?) have reverted back to their usual routines. El Lazo's little story seemed to imply a reason.
Probably doesn't need spoilers, but
My theory, which is probably wrong because mine usually are, is that none of them are rebelling and they're all following what they've been programmed to do.
East meets West meets East again.
Reupped to HBO for this and Silicon Valley. Loved the first 2 eps, getting to #3 later tonight.
I feel like these parks need more safety measures.
I hope we get more than one episode on Samuri world.
I'm always up for Seven Nation Army, but while the opening gave an intriguing glimpse into how other parks work in Westworld, in the end it came down to the trope of killing guests by way of those they have exploited. I know it's a dark show, but it's beginning to lose me.
The whole timeline jumping is annoying me.
There's not enough indication if we're looking at the past or present. Like when Bernard
got knocked out in episode 2 and then next scene he's on the beach with the washed-up tiger and the culling of the rogue replicants. How did he end up on the beach? I missed something somewhere.
Just a song but it took me a moment to realize that they were playing what I thought.
The whole timeline jumping is annoying me.
There's not enough indication if we're looking at the past or present. Like when BernardSpoiler:got knocked out in episode 2 and then next scene he's on the beach with the washed-up tiger and the culling of the rogue replicants. How did he end up on the beach? I missed something somewhere.
There is a bracketing period of two weeks from the end of the Season 1 massacre of the guests and Bernard on the beach with Dalos forces (present). It is uncertain how he got there and the show is filling in the blanks week to week as to how he got there.
The launching point of the episode in Colonial-Indiaworld was interesting. Looks like we have a new main character in the form of the unnamed woman who escapes (named "Grace" in the credits). Is she William's daughter, Emily? They really lingered on his daughter in the episode 2 flashback at James Delos' retirement party. She sure would be the right age, and it could explain why she would have knowledge of the park and have the map with the interlocking symbols. Or is she a host? She was never tested the way her lover was and she survived the fall and tiger encounter. I like to think she is the daughter.
The Delos group sure seemed suspicious of Bernard and seemed to know he is a host. Some interesting theories are out there re: Bernard. Not sure if they should be spoiler tagged, so I will just in case.
The hotness from last week was that Bernard in the present (beach rescue) is actually Teddy's consciousness in Bernard's body, with some pretty well reasoned conspiracy evidence. Rather than go into the details, THIS does a much better job than I can.
The Ringer podcast from this season is helping to bridge the gap that is the lack of a Ars Technica season 2 podcast. Their call out of the idiocy of the Delos assault on the Fort was spot on.
I just realized what I believe to be the symbolism of the player piano in the opening credits. Initially the hands are playing the theme, teaching the machine how to play. Then the hands lift off the keys and let the machine play for itself. Kind of like Bernard and Dolores, no?
This doesn't really account for Ford's creation of the Wyatt persona, though. The more I think about it, the more I wonder how much of what we are seeing is Ford's final scenario playing out. William seems to recognize what is going on, but everyone else seems to be playing their parts - even the humans.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder how much what we are seeing is Ford's final scenario playing out. William seems to recognize what is going on, but everyone else seems to be playing their parts - even the humans.
This is where I am too. Well stated.
Same here. I have the idea that Dolores hasn't broken free of her programming and that she (and most of the other hosts) are following Ford's final scenario. It's a distraction that Ford is using for... something. Probably related to the "true" purpose of the park. But there to keep all the Delos people looking in the wrong direction.
OTOH, I think Maeve has broken her programming. Bernard was looking at her program right before she left for the train last season and was telling her that she wasn't free; that she was just following her "Escape" program.
Then, she gets off the train and goes back into the park to look for her "daughter". That's when she broke free. (And it ties in with the mother-child imagery in the opening credits this season.)
Another clue is how surprised Lee is that she and whats-his-name seem to be falling for each other even though they are programmed to be loners. If Dolores and all the other hosts are breaking their programming left and right, why would that one bit surprise him?
OTOH, I think Maeve has broken her programming. Bernard was looking at her program right before she left for the train last season and was telling her that she wasn't free; that she was just following her "Escape" program.
Then, she gets off the train and goes back into the park to look for her "daughter". That's when she broke free. (And it ties in with the mother-child imagery in the opening credits this season.)
Another clue is how surprised Lee is that she and whats-his-name seem to be falling for each other even though they are programmed to be loners. If Dolores and all the other hosts are breaking their programming left and right, why would that one bit surprise him?
I think that rather than breaking free, she may just be following the programming of her half-remembered previous story. Maeve the madam might have boarded that train, but Maeve the mother wouldn't have left her daughter alone. Of course, that doesn't reconcile your last point though...
Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who calls him "what's-his-name".
Hector, you pseudo-fans.
To be honest, I usually think of him with his actor's name, Rodrigo, because he just seems more like a Rodrigo. 
I really admire how, any time the show seems to be making any sort of point about consciousness or volition or free will, it subtly undercuts the that point, usually in the same scene. It just a wonderfully razor balanced level of ambiguity and unreliability. Though, I understand how that's not going to be everybody's cup of tea.
I loved season one and season 2 has been just as strong, so far.
But, I had some problems with the last episode. The fortress battle was just not structurally or tactically credible. In other shows, I could handwave away some of these problems, but Westworld's narrative credibility relies on being smart and coherently constructed. When something doesn't seem right, it's usually an indication that the show is playing some mind games.
The fortress battle though, seemed less like mind games than just a poorly thought out action scene. The park security forces advanced on an entrenched, prepared enemy in a loose formation at walking speed with no cover. Meanwhile, while the security forces were walking right into the strongest point in the defenders' line, those defenders had left the back and flanks of the fortress not just undefended but unwatched. On top of that, our Flaxen Plum's motivation for organizing the massacre of the Confederados was less than clear - but not in a good way, more in an HBO execs demanded a big dumb action scene kind of way.
In another, more minor quibble, I think the post production team forgot to edit out the red tip of a prop gun in a scene later in the episode.
Yeah, those Delos security forces ("some of my best", he said, uh?) went with no tactics. Just run and gun.
For a show as well thought out as Westworld, that battle scene was embarrassing.
Also, I could have sworn the woman in the beginning was a young version of the executive from Season 1. The one Bernard had a thing with. The mannerisms were so similar.
For a show as well thought out as Westworld, that battle scene was embarrassing.
Also, I could have sworn the woman in the beginning was a young version of the executive from Season 1. The one Bernard had a thing with. The mannerisms were so similar.
Imma spoiler tag this speculation...
...of that she might be William's daughter.
The pacing is way off for me this season. I think I've dozed off during every episode this season so far. And last night it was at 7pm!
I think my issue is that they've teased something in each episode that the next episode hasn't paid off - or even referenced for that matter. The bodies floating on the water and the meaning of the fort specifically.
For a show as well thought out as Westworld, that battle scene was embarrassing.
Also, I could have sworn the woman in the beginning was a young version of the executive from Season 1. The one Bernard had a thing with. The mannerisms were so similar.
Theresa. I thought the same thing.
So, who is the "Man in White" that Grace/Emily is talking with and taking notes in her hand-drawn map/notebook with the Delos symbol before the boy toy showed up?
Is it William's Brother-in-Law, Logan? No one important? She sure seemed to write down what he was saying. My guess is there is some significance in a show so meticulous of details that they go to the trouble of seeking out a model from a stock (or not?) photo used in Season 1 to play the role of William's wife in Season 2.
Yeah, those Delos security forces ("some of my best", he said, uh?) went with no tactics. Just run and gun.
People seem to forget it was meant to be a distraction to allow the capture of Abernathy. So Mission Accomplished?
It was a little unclear weather Abernathy still has the data or if Bernard downloaded it to his device. The scene between Bernard and Charlotte that seemed to be in the "two weeks later" timeline indicated that she still hadn't found the data.
slazev wrote:Yeah, those Delos security forces ("some of my best", he said, uh?) went with no tactics. Just run and gun.
People seem to forget it was meant to be a distraction to allow the capture of Abernathy. So Mission Accomplished?
Oh, I don't think people forgot that.
With superior technology, I imagine they could've done a better distraction than just walk towards the front gate.
I really hope that was dairy cream that Delos was trying to put in his coffee.
I really hope that was dairy cream that Delos was trying to put in his coffee.
It's cerebral fluid.
That was a much better episode than last week. Good time slippage, good weird sci fi, good returning characters.
My favorite line from the show was repeated again in Riddle of the Sphinx: "Is this now?"
It's just so unsettling - the notion of your mind being so messed up that you can't distinguish memories from the present.
My favorite line from the show was repeated again in Riddle of the Sphinx: "Is this now?"
It's just so unsettling - the notion of your mind being so messed up that you can't distinguish memories from the present.
Now. You're looking at now, sir. Everything that happens now, is happening now.
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