[Discussion] Rape Culture, Redux

A continuation of the P&C Rape Culture thread.

sometimesdee wrote:

I was sexually assaulted in virtual reality

It's amazing. The avatars are all alike, but her female-sounding voice was apparently permission to grope her and ignore her protests.

Edit: FB just decided I needed to see an ad for Oculus Touch. Great, now the creeps will actually get tactile feedback when they grope?!

The developer is taking steps to prevent this going forward.
http://kotaku.com/vr-developers-add-...

I just completed an online course mandated by my college about this, entitled "Not Anymore". It was excellent, I wish everyone would be obligated to take it. Interestingly, I did really well in the pre-exam thanks largely to the information I have gleaned from the various discussions on the topic here in GWJ. So thank you, everyone. I appreciate the information and commentary you all provide. It's not always easy to read, as I am certain it's not easy to write, but it does help.

So I tried to read this book but just kept getting too upset and will have to check it out of the library again to finish it. But since then I've learned of this. I just can't articulate well enough to say what I'm think.

Really wasn't quite sure where to post this, but this thread seems like the best fit (ish)...if there's a better place in D&D to post it, feel free to let me know.

One of the top execs at Oculus arrested after getting caught in an underage sex sting.

Dov Katz, Oculus’ head of computer vision, was arrested for “commercial sexual abuse of a minor,” according to a police report. He was booked on Dec. 21.

Charging documents obtained by Geekwire describe an incriminating text message exchange between a phone number later shown to be Katz’ and an undercover officer working from an area hotel.

In those documents, the person Katz believes to be a prostitute first states she is over 18. She later asks Katz if he is comfortable being with someone younger, and he indicates he is.

Upon his arrest, police say Katz told them he was there to “rescue her and call the police.” Investigators informed him that he should have called them first.

The text messages cited in the charging report also included a discussion of Katz obtaining condoms, the number needed for the encounter, and whether the girl would consent to unprotected sex.

Katz joined Oculus in 2013, and stated that he is “leading Oculus’ computer vision and machine learning group” on his LinkedIn profile.

I wonder how many times the police hear the "rescue" excuse in the duration of one of these operations. I'm guessing a lot.

Interesting. I'm curious as to whether he can claim entrapment, as the cop first claimed being over 18. But yeah, he definitely should have called the police first, if he really meant to rescue her. I just hate that he might get off on a technicality due to sloppy police work.

Wow, Oculus sounds more and more like a sh*thole every time I hear about them anymore.

sometimesdee wrote:

Interesting. I'm curious as to whether he can claim entrapment, as the cop first claimed being over 18. But yeah, he definitely should have called the police first, if he really meant to rescue her. I just hate that he might get off on a technicality due to sloppy police work.

I would not have thought of that... but I also can't shake the feeling that "I'm underage, is that ok?" seems so blatantly obvious that I'm wondering if the squad running this has ever even done this before and doesn't know that the potential for entrapment is likely to get them into trouble in court.

No disrespect for sex workers, support your right to choose your own profession... but it kind of seems like a sex worker saying "also, this will be even MORE illegal, is that ok with you?" would be a massive red flag of either blackmail or cops. Why even disclose that before hand?

Like, hindsight 20/20, etc... etc... and I'm looking at this from the lens of knowing it was a sting... but that question seems like it ought to have raised some red flags and caused him to just call off the cops.

I'd assume that any LEO involved in a sting operation would at least be advised on where the entrapment line lay.

Also the fact that that would be a red flag for you kind of illustrates the example of entrapment being a crime someone would not have otherwise committed.

I think entrapment goes away when the guy found out she was underage and still decided to buy a bunch of condoms for his visit, etc.

I presume the condoms were to make balloon animals?

I mean why the heck else would they need to discuss

the number needed for the encounter

or is that something people do when hooking up?

person 1 wrote:

I'm thinking 2 should do

person 2 wrote:

no no no, at LEAST 7

person 1 wrote:

hmm alright I'll bring 9 just in case

It was a commercial transaction remember, not a random hookup.

I believe for it to be entrapment the person possing as the girl under the age of 18 would need to have stated they are not involved in law enforcement (which would be the case regardless of possing as someone under the age of consent).

For clarity I am not defending this dude or his actions.

Maq wrote:

I'd assume that any LEO involved in a sting operation would at least be advised on where the entrapment line lay.

Also the fact that that would be a red flag for you kind of illustrates the example of entrapment being a crime someone would not have otherwise committed.

Yeah, I don't think it can be entrapment when the red flag that what you're going to do is more illegal than what you initially signed on for is given that long before you even show up for your "date." After finding out she was 15, he asked for more pictures, then tried a couple times to get her to agree to go without condoms if they didn't have enough for their "12 hours of play," hours before he showed up at the hotel. This has the charging documents embedded, I don't think he'll have much luck with an entrapment defense.

Garrcia wrote:

I believe for it to be entrapment the person possing as the girl under the age of 18 would need to have stated they are not involved in law enforcement (which would be the case regardless of possing as someone under the age of consent).

For clarity I am not defending this dude or his actions.

Undercover cops don't ever have to tell you they're cops, they are required to lie about actually being cops while working undercover, that's kind of how the whole thing works.
Entrapment is when the police are the ones initiating and escalating the illegal activity that the perpetrator would never have done otherwise. He called the number on their fake add, and didn't object at all when he found out the girl he thought he was going to have sex with was only 15, and showed up to their "date" with the money to pay her.

Stengah wrote:
Garrcia wrote:

I believe for it to be entrapment the person possing as the girl under the age of 18 would need to have stated they are not involved in law enforcement (which would be the case regardless of possing as someone under the age of consent).

For clarity I am not defending this dude or his actions.

Undercover cops don't ever have to tell you they're cops, they are required to lie about actually being cops while working undercover, that's kind of how the whole thing works.
Entrapment is when the police are the ones initiating and escalating the illegal activity that the perpetrator would never have done otherwise. He called the number on their fake add, and didn't object at all when he found out the girl he thought he was going to have sex with was only 15, and showed up to their "date" with the money to pay her.

Pretty much this.

Entrapment would be if they called him.

Zachary Cole Fernandez is facing 6 months in prison for changing the hollywood sign to hollyweed.
Brock Turner, raped an unconscious woman, only 3 months.

Nice sense of balance there 'merica. Granted Zachary has not been convicted yet so may see less but eesh, guess he should have been better at sports or something.

krev82 wrote:

Zachary Cole Fernandez is facing 6 months in prison for changing the hollywood sign to hollyweed.
Brock Turner, raped an unconscious woman, only 3 months.

Nice sense of balance there 'merica. Granted Zachary has not been convicted yet so may see less but eesh, guess he should have been better at sports or something.

If they posted his swim times, he could probably get that down to like a week.

Paleocon wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Garrcia wrote:

I believe for it to be entrapment the person possing as the girl under the age of 18 would need to have stated they are not involved in law enforcement (which would be the case regardless of possing as someone under the age of consent).

For clarity I am not defending this dude or his actions.

Undercover cops don't ever have to tell you they're cops, they are required to lie about actually being cops while working undercover, that's kind of how the whole thing works.
Entrapment is when the police are the ones initiating and escalating the illegal activity that the perpetrator would never have done otherwise. He called the number on their fake add, and didn't object at all when he found out the girl he thought he was going to have sex with was only 15, and showed up to their "date" with the money to pay her.

Pretty much this.

Entrapment would be if they called him.

Or if he said no the first couple times and the cop kept badgering him until he said yes, or if she sprung an escalation on him in the heat of the moment, especially if it could be perceived that he thought that not following along with the escalation could be dangerous for him. For example if he showed up and then once he was there the undercover cop pressed him into adding her little sister into the package deal, or something like that.

The line for entrapment can be pretty fuzzy, but in this case--like others have said--none of the warning signs of entrapment are obvious.

Wait, is that guy actually trying the "are you a cop, because you have to tell me" defense?

"This is an actual tweet from the man leading the largest Trump event in DC right now‬"
IMAGE(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16174949_1274410332597882_7976706098944635743_n.jpg?oh=78790b00893128da828932c8ca468f09&oe=590DEC24)

great, just [email protected]#%in great.

Wow.

1. Rape denial.
2. ACTUALLY encourages men to rape women.
3. Presumably has tried to rape someone "without using force."

Oh good, Cernovich has expanded from GamerGate into politics. /s

BTW: A counterexample:

Spoilered for content

Spoiler:

Date rape drug.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports...

I'm trying to parse the level of horrible to allow this to continue.

And in a not surprising but totally not connected way.. former HC Briles decides to drop his bullsh*t libel lawsuit

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports...

I will be no one involved will be punished in any way.. as they've all moved on to new jobs already.

Watching the rubin report where he is interviewing Sky Williams. About 30 or 40 minutes in he talks about being raped when he was a teen. He talks about how he was made fun of for being raped and how his brother started it. This is so evil on so many levels. Something similar happen to my ex girlfriend. I was shocked how her sister just abused her after being raped. How someone could treat their family so poorly is beyond me.

“Consensual Cuddling” Is a Disgusting Excuse for Tinder’s Alleged Sexual Harassment Coverup

According to the suit and statements made to CNN, Tinder’s vice president of marketing and communications, Rosette Pambakian, says she was harassed and groped by Greg Blatt at a company holiday party held at a Los Angeles hotel, right after he had been named CEO. Pambakian says he told her, “I get hard every time I look at you,” and asked her to leave with him.

“In that moment, I thought, ‘My boss actually thinks I’m going home with him,'” she told CNN. “I basically bolted, found two people I knew, and said, ‘Hey, let’s go up to your room.'” They went up to one of the rooms the company had booked, but Blatt showed up soon after. According to Pambakian and others who were there, Blatt walked in, didn’t say anything to anyone, pushed her back onto the bed she was sitting on, and started kissing and groping her.’

That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Tell me again how rape culture is just a myth........