[Discussion] Trans Issues and Rights

This thread is for the discussion of current events relating to trans rights, for discussion of the lives of trans people and difficulties they face, and for basic questions about the lives and experiences of trans people. (If basic questions become dominant we'll look at making a Q&A thread at that time.)

I’m an atheist and I am a member of a Unitarian Universalist Church. We had a family join us last Sunday for the first time. One of the parents is a transgender person. I got a chance to welcome her and her family to our church. I hope they come back.

Every night I tell my 10-year-old son a science fact at bedtime. Last night he asked specfically (which he's never done before) about transgender folk, sort of a "what's the deal" question. It was an interesting discussion. I focused on the gender aspect, leaving aside questions of sexuality, that your body parts don't necessarily dictate how you see yourself, and that some people feel inside different than what they look like on the outside. We talked about how that can be really hard, especially when other people treat you as they see you, not as you see yourself. We talked about some of the things that transgender people do to accomodate their feelings - clothes, hairstyles, hormones, surgery. We ended with a pretty firm agreement that you treat people as they want to be treated, not as you think they should be treated. If somebody "looks" one gender and tells you they are a different gender, you go with what they tell you, because that's their business. (He agreed pretty emphatically with that one; I like that he thinks it absurd that there is any other way to go.)

I think that's all the high points. Did I miss anything substantial for a Trans* 101 talk?

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Every night I tell my 10-year-old son a science fact at bedtime. Last night he asked specfically (which he's never done before) about transgender folk, sort of a "what's the deal" question. It was an interesting discussion. I focused on the gender aspect, leaving aside questions of sexuality, that your body parts don't necessarily dictate how you see yourself, and that some people feel inside different than what they look like on the outside. We talked about how that can be really hard, especially when other people treat you as they see you, not as you see yourself. We talked about some of the things that transgender people do to accomodate their feelings - clothes, hairstyles, hormones, surgery. We ended with a pretty firm agreement that you treat people as they want to be treated, not as you think they should be treated. If somebody "looks" one gender and tells you they are a different gender, you go with what they tell you, because that's their business. (He agreed pretty emphatically with that one; I like that he thinks it absurd that there is any other way to go.)

I think that's all the high points. Did I miss anything substantial for a Trans* 101 talk?

I shared this with my trans son, my wife, and friends at Thanksgiving dinner. You're a good dad who is raising his kid to be a good human being, Chumpy. You're teaching the core, which irrespective of specifics should apply to how we treat other people. Everyone deserves to discover and be their most true, genuine self whatever that looks like. How do we truly deal with ourselves and grow any other way?

Republican's have abolished gender in the Virginia House of Delegates! ...

....so that they don't have to refer to Danica Roem as a woman.....

They're complete sh*theads, and I don't want anyone to forget that, but I do enjoy the idea of conservatives adopting gender-neutral terminology to spite liberals.

That makes so much sense.

“We’ll do the right thing for the wrong reason and you can’t stop us!”

For now it’s a start.

muraii wrote:

“We’ll do the right thing for the wrong reason and you can’t stop us!”

For now it’s a start.

Nope, not good enough. But doing that, they’re deliberately refusing to recognize as she is. I don’t think we can settle for this ludicrous workaround.

Yeah that makes total sense. I’m probably irrational (not sarcasm) in thinking it’s a foot in the door to broader-minded policies. There is so much evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, I read your post as humor. But the thing is, these people are dangerous and if they had their way, they would simply erase trans folk from existence and that’s not acceptable. I can’t stand by, and there’s just no half measure with these people: either they wise up and get on board, or we condemn firmly and absolutely their hate speech.

Catherine is being ported to PS4 and Vita and will add a third romance option. Sounds good, right?

That's gross.

Maybe this is better news? There is a stark physical transformation here but the real thing is, as the first comment points out, that the person looks startlingly happier.

Reddit post "Denial beard? Check. One year HRT? Check. Still waiting on that choker."

ugh.... I thought that was already in the game from the start though?

*oh no, apparently that was a different Trans character they misgendered and generally made fun of. Got it.

muraii wrote:

That's gross.

Maybe this is better news? There is a stark physical transformation here but the real thing is, as the first comment points out, that the person looks startlingly happier.

Reddit post "Denial beard? Check. One year HRT? Check. Still waiting on that choker."

Bad link, bud.

garion333 wrote:
muraii wrote:

That's gross.

Maybe this is better news? There is a stark physical transformation here but the real thing is, as the first comment points out, that the person looks startlingly happier.

Reddit post "Denial beard? Check. One year HRT? Check. Still waiting on that choker."

Bad link, bud.

Keeping the old one because funny (and maybe you use Sortd and want to get to your Gmail settings):

https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/commen...

pyxistyx wrote:

ugh.... I thought that was already in the game from the start though?

*oh no, apparently that was a different Trans character they misgendered and generally made fun of. Got it.

Yup, already bad precedent in the game, but if this is what it appears to be then it's likely taking things to a whole new level...

For what it's worth, I don't agree with Laura Kate Dale's take on that footage at all. I don't think the trailers and artwork are suggesting that the new character, Rin, is trans, especially in context of the game. That team absolutely has a bad track record of dealing with trans folk, but in this case I think it's a bit of hearing hoofbeats and thinking zebras.

I did note that a few people are saying that the character has the transgender symbol attached to it on the official website when...i don't think it does? unless I'm missing it somewhere.

It DOES have a button containing both the male and female symbols connected together though. Maybe that's unrelated (or maybe they just couldn't be bothered researching the real symbol). We shall see I guess...

pyxistyx wrote:

It DOES have a button containing both the male and female symbols connected together though. Maybe that's unrelated (or maybe they just couldn't be bothered researching the real symbol).

Something like this?
IMAGE(http://static3.depositphotos.com/1005917/250/i/950/depositphotos_2505199-INTERLINKED-MALEFEMALE-SYMBOL.jpg)

Interlocked gender symbols are commonly used to identify couples, not individuals. Linked male and female symbols would indicate a heterosexual couple.

IMAGE(http://fullbody.jp/resources/img/sp/top/pv_play_0a246ef840b7d3dd273c9a1e52af32c2.png)

That's the one, yeah. Unless there's a symbol on there I couldn't see, I think that's the one everyone seems to be mistaking for the trans symbol.

Number 1- Rest In Power, Christa (TransGriot, Monica Roberts, Jan 06 2018)

Christa Leigh Steele-Knudslien, 42, North Adams, MA

This one hits close to home. Christa was an organizer and well known in the community.

I just found out (as in today) that my friend's youngish adult child (19) now identifies as male. When I found out, my reaction was mostly "well that makes sense". Anyway, I still catch myself saying "she", apologizing, and having to correct myself.

I feel bad about it because I know how important it is to him, but changing his gender association in my own mind is probably going to take longer than a couple hours.

Keep working to do better, and remember that a simple self-correction is better than a stumbling apology.

Hypatian wrote:

Keep working to do better, and remember that a simple self-correction is better than a stumbling apology. :)

I will. Like I said, I know how important it is to him. It's just that I have known him since he was 4, so there is a lot of history to overcome in a few hours. His dad says he trips up from time to time too and he's had quite a bit more time than I have.

I suspect it will be easier when I talk to him because the second person pronoun is gender neutral.

I struggled with this a bit when someone in my social circles transitioned a while back. It was someone I only ever saw or interacted with infrequently so it took me a while longer before the change to her preferred pronoun became automatic for me.

I think that's normal to take a bit longer for someone you don't see every other day. Just keep making the effort.

Cross-posting from the Questions You Want Answered thread.

PaladinTom wrote:

I've been tasked with updating our old database which currently only includes the options 'M' or 'F' for gender.

What are the best and/or most respectful options that are inclusive of all gender identities? I've not found any general standards with my Google-fu. The purpose of the database is to recruit volunteers to test products that are marketed at either men or women.

Broadly, the most inclusive solution when gender is information that needs to be collected is a free-form text entry field, but you actually have a reason here to want something easier to parse. (Marketing at either men or women is a little side-eye worthy. But this is the world we live in. :>) Another alternative is to include M/F/Other with a free-form field if they'd like to give their name for how they're other. And finally, you could do M/F/Other (with or without a free-form field)/prefer not to say.

A way to handle the marketing goals might be to instead of asking for the participant's gender to ask them for whether they would like to participate in testing items marketed towards men or towards women.

Or maybe bonus points to ask which marketing they'd prefer to participate in, plus include one of the more inclusive gender options. This potentially gives you some interesting additional information. For example: I wouldn't be surprised if there's a substantial set of lesbian women who might be interested in items and marketing aimed at men.

Paleocon wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

Keep working to do better, and remember that a simple self-correction is better than a stumbling apology. :)

I will. Like I said, I know how important it is to him. It's just that I have known him since he was 4, so there is a lot of history to overcome in a few hours. His dad says he trips up from time to time too and he's had quite a bit more time than I have.

I suspect it will be easier when I talk to him because the second person pronoun is gender neutral.

This is normal. You've already formed a spot for someone in your brain, and in conversation you'll automatically access that unless you're constantly being mindful of the change. For a while what's there is going to be incorrect.

It's worse when your own kid transitions, and 2 months later you catch yourself having said, "she" and "her" at least 5 times in what you've just said while your wife and kids are all looking at you like you're a clueless idiot.

Like I did last night.

Of course I stopped mid-sentence, exclaimed, "sh*t! Sorry." and they laughed themselves to tears. 17 years is a long time for those mental pathways to form. I'm proud of not using his old name by mistake for nearly a month now.

Hypatian wrote:

Broadly, the most inclusive solution when gender is information that needs to be collected is a free-form text entry field, but you actually have a reason here to want something easier to parse. (Marketing at either men or women is a little side-eye worthy. But this is the world we live in. :>) Another alternative is to include M/F/Other with a free-form field if they'd like to give their name for how they're other. And finally, you could do M/F/Other (with or without a free-form field)/prefer not to say.

A way to handle the marketing goals might be to instead of asking for the participant's gender to ask them for whether they would like to participate in testing items marketed towards men or towards women.

Or maybe bonus points to ask which marketing they'd prefer to participate in, plus include one of the more inclusive gender options. This potentially gives you some interesting additional information. For example: I wouldn't be surprised if there's a substantial set of lesbian women who might be interested in items and marketing aimed at men.

How the products are marketed are not my call sadly. For a fairly progressive company such as ours, our marketing department sure can be somewhat sexist, racist, and ageist at times.

I love the idea of asking folks the type of products they would be more interested in testing though!

Thanks for the help Hyp.

In less nice news:

Trump's Latest Transgender Rights Move Could Be Devastating For Trans People's Health
(Morgan Brinlee, Bustle, 2018-01-17)

Transgender people face significant barriers to medical care, and a proposed rule from the Trump administration may make things even more difficult for them. The administration may soon allow health care workers to object to treating transgender patients in a move framed as protecting the religious rights of those workers, according to a new report from POLITICO. The White House reportedly is reviewing a proposed rule that would enable health care workers to deny services and care to certain individuals — including, but not limited to, transgender patients — on the basis of religious or moral objections.

This of course, has tons of potential to cause harm to people seeking abortions or other birth control services, to queer people in general, to women, to Black people, to muslims, etc.

Yay. :l