[Discussion] Medical Quackery

This is a follow up to the thread "Medical quackery in the US upsets me very, very much". The aim of this current thread is to take up the discussion on medical quackery (widening the scope since the US isn't the only country concerned), discuss news item pertaining to it and the potential responses to address it.
The definition of medical quackery is not up for debate and includes, among others, homeopathy, vaccine skepticism, naturopathy, crystal healing, psychic healing.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
Keldar wrote:
RawkGWJ wrote:

Why do so many folks out there think that they’re smarter than their doctors?

Because it's easy to believe that the doctors are pushing the vaccinations not because they're a good idea but because they're being paid off by Big Pharma.

It's not true, mind you. But it's not so difficult to believe.

It doesn't help that some doctors do push opioids because they're being paid off by Big Pharma.

Yes. Sadly there are some actual conspiracies. But that’s different from a conspiracy theory. Actual conspiracies sometimes get brought to justice.

bighoppa wrote:

Because the culture now is to refute knowledge itself. I have former friends that have bought into anti-vax because their newborn was non-verbal. On top of that, they've now gone flat-earth, moon-landing conspiracy, space is fake, 9/11 truther, etc, etc. I had to step away from that relationship despite knowing the guy and his family for 20 years.

Wait, what?

Agent 86 wrote:

Wait, what?

Yeah, the thinking goes that earth is surrounded by Firmament, not space. It goes hand-in-hand with moon landing being faked, the sun and moon are actually close to the planet, flat-earth nonsense. It's all about denying any knowledge or "science" (because a lot of these flakes call themselves scientists) that you don't understand or didn't "research" yourself (because a lot of these flakes think watching each other's youtube videos is research).

To avoid further derailment of the thread, you can watch SciManDan's channel as he does a pretty good job debunking most of this stuff. Other good channels are Conspiracy Catz or Fight the Flat Earth or Godless Engineer. SciManDan has regular posts on Tuesdays ("Tinfoil Tuesday", addressing general conspiracy theory stuff) and Fridays ("Flat Earth Friday", where he focuses specifically on debunking flat earthers).

Should we have a separate thread for this?

Thanks. I had never heard that one. Just...wow.

'space is fake' is an extension of flat earth and NASA conspiracy. In this one, everything NASA does is a lie that can be fully explained (if you close your eyes, plug your ears and go lalalalala) with camera tricks, wire work, and vomit comets.

Like most science denying movements, they have no idea what they think is really reality, they just know everything they're being told is a lie.

bighoppa wrote:

Because the culture now is to refute knowledge itself. I have former friends that have bought into anti-vax because their newborn was non-verbal. On top of that, they've now gone flat-earth, moon-landing conspiracy, space is fake, 9/11 truther, etc, etc. I had to step away from that relationship despite knowing the guy and his family for 20 years.

Emphasis mine. Please have a care with your wording. Having a child on the spectrum (or indeed being on the spectrum yourself) does not make one buy into conspiracy theories. It does, however (and this is especially true of parents who are typicals), put parents in a state of distress, some would even say grief for the idealized child they'll never have. A state which makes them more vulnerable to grasp at straws.
As always, correlation isn't causality.

Incidentally, if you haven't listened to it already, I recommend listening to the Bleach episode of Sawbones. They do throw a trigger warning at the top, and rightfully so, but you'll get a sense of what lengths those parents will go to. It's infuriating and heartbreaking (not to mention ableist too, but that's another topic).

So their "newborn was non-verbal"? Heh, I'm imagining that they expected their child would start talking in the hospital just after being born.

My wife went down the anti-vax rabbit hole when my son was diagnosed with autism. I was able to convince her to vaccinate our daughter but she would only agree if we did an alternative schedule where they were spread out. We had to negotiate HPV vaccine a bit but as a cancer doctor I insisted on that one.

Fear and grief will definitely cause people to lose rational thought sometimes....

gewy wrote:

So their "newborn was non-verbal"? Heh, I'm imagining that they expected their child would start talking in the hospital just after being born.

Yeah, I thought I'd let that slide, but that definitely stood out for me as well.

Sorry, Elemia and those here with kids on the spectrum. Very fair criticism of my post. I let my frustration with my friend get to me and was very dismissive of other real issues. I sincerely apologize and I will try to do better.

Docjoe wrote:

My wife went down the anti-vax rabbit hole when my son was diagnosed with autism. I was able to convince her to vaccinate our daughter but she would only agree if we did an alternative schedule where they were spread out. We had to negotiate HPV vaccine a bit but as a cancer doctor I insisted on that one.

Fear and grief will definitely cause people to lose rational thought sometimes....

Re: the HPV vaccine, the early cervical cancer rates from the UK after the vaccine was introduced are just plain astounding. Despite the anti-vax opposition i think that vaccine in particular will go down in history as a real life saver.

NPR Throughline podcast had an episode recently about the anti-vaxx movement and its history, very much worth listening to. It goes, among other things, into forced vaccinations for Chinese minorities as they were deemed filthier and thus more prone to illness by the (very white) powers that be/were.

Distrust in authorities, rational or irrational, doesn't appear out of thin air...

thrawn82 wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

My wife went down the anti-vax rabbit hole when my son was diagnosed with autism. I was able to convince her to vaccinate our daughter but she would only agree if we did an alternative schedule where they were spread out. We had to negotiate HPV vaccine a bit but as a cancer doctor I insisted on that one.

Fear and grief will definitely cause people to lose rational thought sometimes....

Re: the HPV vaccine, the early cervical cancer rates from the UK after the vaccine was introduced are just plain astounding. Despite the anti-vax opposition i think that vaccine in particular will go down in history as a real life saver.

It’s even more impressive in Australia which is a few laps ahead of the rest of us.

IMAGE(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60645312_2264036563710556_5072649572518461440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_eui2=AeHQGYY8Rg84HNXJu64-xveWVZwBisuQTnAnet4NoyS34ni3x3_WKhyEN3e6Akk-rdb4Ngl3F0qpQI6dch5wR7gQ-iDjBgbsjqBYLg6oB-s62g&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=eb05d9d68645716b558d20a9a2fc7cd9&oe=5D6AF18D)

Saw that on facebook. It’s brilliant.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/M1BMve5.png)

Just the beginning of the article, because it doesn't like adblockers. But this caught my attention due to recent conversations/posts. I hope more states jump in, but I wonder who will now pay the remainder.

By ANNA STAVER | [email protected] | The Denver Post
PUBLISHED: May 23, 2019 at 11:36 am | UPDATED: May 23, 2019 at 10:05 pm

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/05/2...

Diabetics in Colorado who use insulin to control their blood sugar levels won’t pay more than $100 per month for the drug starting in January thanks to a bill signed into law by Gov. Jared Polis on Wednesday.

“Today, we will declare that the days of insulin price gouging are over in Colorado,” Polis said in his office as he signed the bill, according to CBS Denver.

Insulin has been around for nearly a century, but the price that patients with Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes pay for the drug has doubled since 2012, according to the Healthcare Cost Institute. The cost of insulin can creep up toward $1,000 for those whose health care coverage requires significant cost-sharing.

farley3k wrote:

Diabetics in Colorado who use insulin to control their blood sugar levels won’t pay more than $100 per month for the drug starting in January thanks to a bill signed into law by Gov. Jared Polis on Wednesday.

“Today, we will declare that the days of insulin price gouging are over in Colorado,” Polis said in his office as he signed the bill, according to CBS Denver.

My concern now is whether insulin will still be widely available in Colorado, or whether certain companies will just stop selling it there because it's no longer as profitable.

Well, the high price of insulin doesn't stem from the manufacturing cost, so any company that makes that choice needs to be pilloried.

I’m confused. How is that quackery? That should be a good thing.
Or has this thread kinda drifted into “wow, look at how sucky the US healthcare system is” territory?

I put it here because it seemed like the thread dealing with medial stuff not for the quackery. We used to have a thread about medical issues but I didn't see it.

I just had an employee of mine come into my office and ask me if CBD oil could cause a drug screen to return a positive. Said they wanted to know before they tried it because they thought it might help them sleep at night. I'm getting the impression that CBD oil is the newest hit cure-all.

I dunno, pot makes me sleepy...