[News] Post a Political News Story

Ongoing discussion of the political news of the day.

Go ACT, almost 75% yes vote.

Yeah. Looks like Moore supporters went full on "Damned Yankee Jews tryin' ta smeer our beloved Judge Moore" route.

And Alabama might just be dumb enough to fall for it.

An Alabaman I work with was asking the "but why are they just coming out now instead of 40 years ago?" and I responded that it is awfully tough to have the courage to come after a powerful person. This is particularly true if you are 16 years old and don't come from a rich or political powerful family. Or as Omar Little would put it "you come at the king, you best not miss".

He didn't seem to get it until I said "it's like folks asking why no one rushed the gunman in a mass shooting. It doesn't work if you're the only one doing it.".

He admitted it was a good point.

Paleocon wrote:

An Alabaman I work with was asking the "but why are they just coming out now instead of 40 years ago?" and I responded that it is awfully tough to have the courage to come after a powerful person. This is particularly true if you are 16 years old and don't come from a rich or political powerful family. Or as Omar Little would put it "you come at the king, you best not miss".

He didn't seem to get it until I said "it's like folks asking why no one rushed the gunman in a mass shooting. It doesn't work if you're the only one doing it.".

He admitted it was a good point.

Clap.gif

Congrats on an excellent approach to a very hard topic. I am totally stealing this.

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

DSGamer wrote:

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

Yes.

DSGamer wrote:

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

The easiest. We're all well aware of what they do.

Grenn wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

The easiest. We're all well aware of what they do.

Always this too...
IMAGE(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/US_M18a1_claymore_mine.jpg)

But yeah, violence...It's what we know.

Wow Fox News actually did the unthinkable and reported the truth on the Uranium deal. Now everyone is convinced they are part of the conspiracy with CNN...Sigh. I give up.

May or may not have been at the guidance of Fox News but at least Shepard Smith. I don't care, I have lost hope for the day seeing the responses.

DSGamer wrote:

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

I don't think that's necessarily it. It's about how people imagine themselves to be powerless.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that Paleocon's coworker was a white guy. For a lot of people in America, but especially for white men, the only scenario of power imbalance that they've actually seriously considered and made plans for is a mass shooting. Perhaps the only other situations would be your boss directing you to do something illegal and threatening to fire you if you didn't, or a child speaking out against being abused.

Exploitation of the vulnerable and the protection of the perpetrator by structures of power is more of an abstract concept the higher up the ladder of privilege you get. The power imbalance of a shooter situation is a more concrete example that, sadly, every single person I know has made plans for or thought about how to respond to.

That said, the one thing that I do think the mass shooter metaphor misses is the very real likelihood that Moore's victims didn't speak out because they were told, either implicitly by our culture or explicitly by friends and family, that they were at fault for what happened or that nothing untoward happened. I've talked to a lot of victims of rape and molestation, and one thing I've heard over and over is that they told someone what happened and were told that it was their fault, or they struggled to acknowledge that what had happened to them was wrong.

In the context of the shooter metaphor, it's like being told that the shooting wasn't wrong because you somehow made yourself a target or invited yourself to be shot. That's not a realistic dynamic in that situation, but it's an important one to understand when it comes to recognizing why it might take someone thirty years or more to stand up and say, "This is what this person did to me, and it was not okay".

ClockworkHouse wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

I don't think that's necessarily it. It's about how people imagine themselves to be powerless.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that Paleocon's coworker was a white guy. For a lot of people in America, but especially for white men, the only scenario of power imbalance that they've actually seriously considered and made plans for is a mass shooting. Perhaps the only other situations would be your boss directing you to do something illegal and threatening to fire you if you didn't, or a child speaking out against being abused.

Exploitation of the vulnerable and the protection of the perpetrator by structures of power is more of an abstract concept the higher up the ladder of privilege you get. The power imbalance of a shooter situation is a more concrete example that, sadly, every single person I know has made plans for or thought about how to respond to.

That said, the one thing that I do think the mass shooter metaphor misses is the very real likelihood that Moore's victims didn't speak out because they were told, either implicitly by our culture or explicitly by friends and family, that they were at fault for what happened or that nothing untoward happened. I've talked to a lot of victims of rape and molestation, and one thing I've heard over and over is that they told someone what happened and were told that it was their fault, or they struggled to acknowledge that what had happened to them was wrong.

In the context of the shooter metaphor, it's like being told that the shooting wasn't wrong because you somehow made yourself a target or invited yourself to be shot. That's not a realistic dynamic in that situation, but it's an important one to understand when it comes to recognizing why it might take someone thirty years or more to stand up and say, "This is what this person did to me, and it was not okay".

To expand briefly on Clocky’s point, many victims and/or those who experience abuse and violence are often told directly by their abuser they will not be believed because of the power and status of the abuser.

Hobear wrote:

Wow Fox News actually did the unthinkable and reported the truth on the Uranium deal. Now everyone is convinced they are part of the conspiracy with CNN...Sigh. I give up.

May or may not have been at the guidance of Fox News but at least Shepard Smith. I don't care, I have lost hope for the day seeing the responses.

Is this Fox News now?

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/ChaiMzg.gif)

Paleocon wrote:

An Alabaman I work with was asking the "but why are they just coming out now instead of 40 years ago?" and I responded that it is awfully tough to have the courage to come after a powerful person. This is particularly true if you are 16 years old and don't come from a rich or political powerful family. Or as Omar Little would put it "you come at the king, you best not miss".

He didn't seem to get it until I said "it's like folks asking why no one rushed the gunman in a mass shooting. It doesn't work if you're the only one doing it.".

He admitted it was a good point.

The Onion covers this too:
Woman Assaulted By Celebrity Just Needs To Sit Tight For 40 Years Until Dozens More Women Corroborate Story

DSGamer wrote:

That’s good, but seriously... guns are the only metaphor Americans understand?

He said it was an Alabaman.

Hobear wrote:

Wow Fox News actually did the unthinkable and reported the truth on the Uranium deal. Now everyone is convinced they are part of the conspiracy with CNN...Sigh. I give up.

May or may not have been at the guidance of Fox News but at least Shepard Smith. I don't care, I have lost hope for the day seeing the responses.

Shep Smith has long been one of the only level-headed people at Faux News.

I had no idea before today that he was gay. Can't be that easy being a gay journalist at Fox News.

On the "why didn't these women (girls!) come forward" front, we also have to consider that there is a "citation needed" flag there. The fact that the local police knew of his behavior and he had been banned from the mall implies that some of his victims did indeed come forward at the time, and, surprise surprise, the response wasn't sufficient.

Roy Moore is as bad at hiring lawyers and Tump is.

Roy Moore lawyer brings up Ali Velshi’s ‘background’ while defending client from underage sex allegations

Anchor Stephanie Ruhle asked Garmon, “Why would he need permission from any of these girl’s mothers if they aren't underage?"

“Sure, that’s a good question. Culturally speaking, and obviously there is differences, I looked up Ali’s background there and wow that is awesome that you have got such a diverse background,” Garmon replied. “And it is really cool to read through that.”

“What does Ali’s background have to do with dating a 14-year-old?” Ruhle asked.

Garmon began to reply that he was not finished with the context of his remark, when Ruhle interjected, “Please answer: What does Ali Velshi’s background have to do with dating children, 14 year old girls?”

“In other countries, there is an arrangement through parents for what we would refer to as consensual marriage,” Garmon said.

“Ali is from Canada,” Ruhle said.

“I understand that. And Ali’s also spent time in other countries,” Garmon said.

“So have I,” Ruhle responded.

"Which I’ve gone to. So it’s not a bad thing," Garmon said.

"I don’t know where you are going with this, Trenton," Velshi said.

Velshi was born in Kenya and raised in Toronto.

Garmon then continued to defend Moore saying that he would ask for a mother’s permission to date their daughter regardless of how old they were.

The transcript just doesn't do that exchange justice, especially the oh-so-subtle lead in of "wow that is awesome that you have got such a diverse background." The action starts around 2:15.

Last night the guy got eviscerated on Twitter when lawyers got ahold of the rambling, incoherent letter filled with misspellings he delivered to the Alabama Media Group--not the Washington Post, who actually broke the story--threatening all kinds of lawsuits and legal damages unless they immediately retracted their articles about Moore.

Ooof that was brutal.

44 year-old married Moore thought it was OK to try to pick up a woman--and grab her ass--who was in his office because her marriage was falling apart and she was signing over the custody of her son to her mother

AL.com wrote:

In interviews with AL.com, Tina Johnson recalls that in the fall of 1991 she sat in the law office of then-attorney Roy Moore on Third Street in Gadsden. Her mother, Mary Katherine Cofield, sat in the chair next to her. Moore sat behind his desk, across from them. Johnson remembers she was wearing a black and white dress.

Almost from the moment she walked in to Moore's office, Johnson said, Moore began flirting with her.

"He kept commenting on my looks, telling me how pretty I was, how nice I looked," recalled Johnson. "He was saying that my eyes were beautiful."

It made her uncomfortable. "I was thinking, can we hurry up and get out of here?"

Johnson was 28 years old, in a difficult marriage headed toward divorce, and unemployed. She was at the office to sign over custody of her 12-year-old son to her mother, with whom he'd been living. Her mother had hired Moore to handle the custody petition.

Johnson had two young daughters at the time with her then-husband, and her son said he wanted to live with his grandmother.

At one point during the meeting, she said, Moore came around the desk and sat on the front of it, just inches from her. He was so close, she said, she could smell his breath.

According to Johnson, he asked questions about her young daughters, including what color eyes they had and if they were as pretty as she was. She said that made her feel uncomfortable, too.

Once the papers were signed, she and her mother got up to leave. After her mother walked through the door first, she said, Moore came up behind her.

It was at that point, she recalled, he grabbed her buttocks.

"He didn't pinch it; he grabbed it," said Johnson. She was so surprised she didn't say anything. She didn't tell her mother.

The article included the story of another woman from Gadsden who in 1982 said that Moore asked her out at the restaurant she worked at. She was 17 at the time and Moore was 35.

Thorp said Moore asked her if she'd go out with him sometime.

"I just kind of said, 'Do you know how old I am?'" she recalled.

"And he said, 'Yeah. I go out with girls your age all the time.'"

Look.

Society brought this on ourselves from banning him from malls. What did you expect to happen?

Two more women describe unwanted overtures by Roy Moore at Alabama mall

Richardson says Moore — now a candidate for U.S. Senate — asked her where she went to school, and then for her phone number, which she says she declined to give, telling him that her father, a Southern Baptist preacher, would never approve.

A few days later, she says, she was in trigonometry class at Gadsden High when she was summoned to the principal’s office over the intercom in her classroom. She had a phone call.

“I said ‘Hello?’” Richardson recalls. “And the male on the other line said, ‘Gena, this is Roy Moore.’ I was like, ‘What?!’ He said, ‘What are you doing?’ I said, ‘I’m in trig class.’ ”

As much good as the internet has brought, I have to wonder how much more good it would have delivered if it hadn't absolutely gutted the revenue streams of local newspapers everywhere.

I dunno. I mean, local newspapers were doing pretty well in the 80s and 90s and they didn't mention jack sh*t about Roy Moore at the time.

bnpederson wrote:

I dunno. I mean, local newspapers were doing pretty well in the 80s and 90s and they didn't mention jack sh*t about Roy Moore at the time.

And national media wasn't too eager, either.

But I'd really like to see what a well-funded local media would do in a post-Weinstein world.

OG_slinger wrote:
bnpederson wrote:

I dunno. I mean, local newspapers were doing pretty well in the 80s and 90s and they didn't mention jack sh*t about Roy Moore at the time.

And national media wasn't too eager, either.

But I'd really like to see what a well-funded local media would do in a post-Weinstein world.

Yeah, but I think a lot of the recent reactions are because of the interconnectedness of the world via the Internet. Things can go viral now, news stories can gain steam beyond what's on cable news, individuals have the chance to get their voice amplified without gatekeepers.

At least I like to think we got something good out of this internet thing.

And we might still get the chance to see that well funded media thing, too. And if you figure out how that's going to happen, shoot me a PM so I can get in on the ground floor.

This reminds me of a convo i had with a family friend yesterday, that basically amounted to "all the moral outrage about harassment and child molesting is BS because what-about-Roman-Polanski" and it really drove home something that has been on the edge of my consciousness. I feel like this shift in views, willingness to believe victims, willing to call powerful people to task is very much the result of people of my generation (I was born in '82) and the half generation after me who were raised on the internet making their way into positions of influence. There's a lot of bad from the internet, but there's a lot of good too and i think the fact we are able to step into a "post-Weinstein" world is one of them.

OG_slinger wrote:

I'd really like to see what a well-funded local media would do in a post-Weinstein world.

My local suburban paper, with a newsroom of approximately 1.5 people, took down our school superintendent this year for financial improprieties. He has just been charged with 21 felonies, and is still being investigated by the FBI.

While justice has been done this event is causing a lot of unrest in our community. It was first brought to light by a group on Facebook that has an extreme distrust of government. Though they now have their pound of flesh it's not enough. Next they want the entire school board to resign and regularly engage in unfounded rumor mongering and ad hominems against city council and school board members, as well as trolling and flaming anyone who dares to disagree with or demand facts from the online mob.

I'm hopeful that this echo chamber of like-minded fools will prove harmless, but I find myself paying much more attention to local politics now to make sure one of these yahoos doesn't make it on a board in the next election.

thrawn82 wrote:

This reminds me of a convo i had with a family friend yesterday, that basically amounted to "all the moral outrage about harassment and child molesting is BS because what-about-Roman-Polanski" and it really drove home something that has been on the edge of my consciousness. I feel like this shift in views, willingness to believe victims, willing to call powerful people to task is very much the result of people of my generation (I was born in '82) and the half generation after me who were raised on the internet making their way into positions of influence. There's a lot of bad from the internet, but there's a lot of good too and i think the fact we are able to step into a "post-Weinstein" world is one of them.

Roman Polanski is an odd choice for whataboutism. He still lives in self-inflicted exile because he's a fugitive from justice. And while it's really awful that people in Hollywood have put their names to petitions in support of him, Polanski's conviction hasn't gone away.

Moore, Trump and the Right’s New Religion

You can peg any number of moments in recent history when the objective seemed to change for the members of the religious right, where they swallowed all pride and principle to secure power and vent anger, but for me there is none more glaring than the embrace of Donald Trump.

Trump is clearly not a religious man, unless you believe being compulsively devilish is a form of religiosity. He is mean and surly. He is a bully. He is a pathological liar. He cheats. He is an adulterer. He is twice-divorced with children by three different women. He bragged, on tape, about assaulting women. He says he doesn’t think he has ever asked God for forgiveness.

Trump was a walking, talking rebuke of everything the Christian right had ever told me that it stood for, and yet Republican voters either held their noses or thrust their fists in the air and voted for him anyway.

The anger that gave birth to Trump was a death notice for Republican religious principles. Now, if you ask me what the Republican Party stands for, I’m not sure I can tell you. All I see is regression, wealth worship, nationalism and white supremacy. Maybe that’s it. I no longer see Christ in that equation.

In the wake of all that, we now have the former Alabama Supreme Court judge Roy Moore running for the U.S. Senate as a Republican. Moore has been accused by multiple women in Alabama of having inappropriate sexual contact with them when they were still minors and he was in his 30s, working as a district attorney.

The accusations are serious and not easily dismissed. And yet Moore has denied them, vociferously and unequivocally. Someone here is telling a vicious lie. It’s a he said/she, she, she, she, she said. Not to mention the people interviewed by The New Yorker who say that Moore was banned from a local mall for harassing girls.

What has been most distressing and revelatory is the contortions Moore’s supporters have put themselves in to try to defend him against the allegations.

Another hero bites the dust

The incident happened in December 2006, she said, when she and Franken, then a comedian, were on a USO Tour to "entertain our troops."

Franken in a statement apologized for his actions.

"It wasn’t until I was back in the U.S. and looking through the CD of photos we were given by the photographer that I saw this one," Tweeden wrote about the photo on KABC.
"I felt violated all over again. Embarrassed. Belittled. Humiliated," she wrote. "How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?"

Tweeden wrote that Franken, who was the headliner on the tour, had written some skits and told her he had a part for her, adding that she "agreed to play along."

"When I saw the script, Franken had written a moment when his character comes at me for a ‘kiss’. I suspected what he was after, but I figured I could turn my head at the last minute, or put my hand over his mouth, to get more laughs from the crowd," she wrote.

"On the day of the show Franken and I were alone backstage going over our lines one last time. He said to me, 'We need to rehearse the kiss.' I laughed and ignored him. Then he said it again. I said something like, ‘Relax Al, this isn’t SNL…we don’t need to rehearse the kiss.’"

She wrote Franken continued to insist and she got "uncomfortable."

"He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth," she wrote.

"I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again I wouldn’t be so nice about it the next time."

She said she felt disgusted and violated. She added that she didn't tell anyone what happened at the time, but she was "angry."

Tweeden also said she fell asleep while on the plane back to the U.S. She said is wasn't until she saw the photo of Franken groping her that she told her husband what had happened and showed him the photo.

"I wanted to shout my story to the world with a megaphone to anyone who would listen, but even as angry as I was, I was worried about the potential backlash and damage going public might have on my career as a broadcaster," she wrote.