[Discussion] 2016 Presidential Elections Vote-All

Pages

The US Presidential Elections catch-all. All discussion related to the ongoing campaigns can go here.

The new general election thread!

Snopes, with video of Hillary stumbling to her car this morning.

This is going to bring her health discussion out of the fringes again, there's no way around that.

But in the meantime, Trump's facing reports of fraud over 9/11 funds, accusations of misusing charity money to buy stuff for himself, and a growing focus on his donations to the Florida AG.

CIA director rebuts Trump's claim on intelligence briefing

"We don't comment on policy," Brennan added. "We don't give policy recommendations, so I am fully confident that they comported themselves with the utmost professionalism and demonstrated their real breadth and depth of intelligence capabilities."

Trump's comments also drew criticism last week from former top intelligence officials, who are freer to speak their minds than Brennan.

“I’ve never seen anything like that,” Michael Hayden, who served as CIA director under George W. Bush, told POLITICO last week. "That's just awful," he added.

If she falls one more time, does Biden get to take her place?

Sign me up for the end of the world.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

But in the meantime, Trump's facing reports of fraud over 9/11 funds, accusations of misusing charity money to buy stuff for himself, and a growing focus on his donations to the Florida AG.

And it wont make the slightest difference.

Stele wrote:

Snopes, with video of Hillary stumbling to her car this morning. :?

It really doesn't look good. I mean, if you've ever fainted you know it's completely possible for an otherwise healthy person to turn to Jello in a moment. It happens. But to have footage of it after everything Trump has been saying about her health? That's really bad. No way around it.

I guess there's a reason for the presidential photo ops clearing brush and riding bikes.

Turns out Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia rather than an incurable case of advanced frailty and lingering death and is being treated with antibiotics and rest.

OG_slinger wrote:

Turns out Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia rather than an incurable case of advanced frailty and lingering death and is being treated with antibiotics and rest.

SAYS WHO?

POLLS!

But seriously though, pneumonia is not something she can just shake off like overheating or dehydration. If it's viral, the antibiotics won't help much except to reduce the chance of a secondary infection. It's going to hurt how much campaigning she can do and it'll affect how people perceive her.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

But seriously though, pneumonia is not something she can just shake off like overheating or dehydration. If it's viral, the antibiotics won't help much except to reduce the chance of a secondary infection. It's going to hurt how much campaigning she can do and it'll affect how people perceive her.

Pneumonia is no joke at any age, but when you're pushing 70? This is the kind of thing that can kill people.

Clinton's in good enough health that she should be fine after some bed rest, but this is terrible timing and it seems sure to derail her campaign for a while.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

But seriously though, pneumonia is not something she can just shake off like overheating or dehydration. If it's viral, the antibiotics won't help much except to reduce the chance of a secondary infection. It's going to hurt how much campaigning she can do and it'll affect how people perceive her.

I was thinking this as well.

I had pneumonia in my mid-30's. By the time I admitted I needed to rest, I basically collapsed into bed and stayed very low energy for a week or ten days. I had had some energy early into it, but as it went on it sapped my strength and really took me out of things.

I can't imagine what it would be like at 70. IV liquids for sure, bed rest, soup, bed rest, bed rest...

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsFhzfJWgAA9Xni.jpg:large)

The Clinton pneumonia thing is a perfect exemplar for the tenor of the debate between supporters of each candidate. Clinton supporters criticize Trump for his repeated outlandish and impractical policy statements, while Trump supporters criticize Clinton because she got pneumonia and stumbled while a camera happened to be rolling.

Let Trump get pneumonia and keep the cameras on him. We'll see how hale and robust he looks. Plus he's two years older than Clinton.

This is basically a video version of the article Vox put out about Clinton as a listener. I thin in this case, the video helps because it includes clips from those actually talking about her. It's really well done, and hopefully explains why, even with as much distrust as many have of her, she could really be not just a lesser of two evils, but one of the great presidents.

Seriously, this a great listen.

Robear wrote:

I had pneumonia in my mid-30's. By the time I admitted I needed to rest, I basically collapsed into bed and stayed very low energy for a week or ten days. I had had some energy early into it, but as it went on it sapped my strength and really took me out of things.

I can't imagine what it would be like at 70. IV liquids for sure, bed rest, soup, bed rest, bed rest...

I had a similar experience at the same age. I was also completely bedridden for nearly two weeks. The only thing I could focus on was continuing to breathe. It took a constant conscious effort to keep doing so. I finally was able to get to a doctor near the end of it, and he told me he was frankly surprised I was still alive, and that I really should have been hospitalized. The one positive outcome of the ordeal was that I had to quit smoking. It wasn't by choice, mind you. When I tried to smoke, even a very little, I became violently ill and could barely breathe again. It was like my body was saying "WTF is wrong with you, moron?!" I have had zero desire to smoke since.

Very effective cold turkey smoking cessation method, but I strongly recommend against it.

As someone who is becoming more of a Clinton cheerleader, I do think it's a mistake to try brush off the health concerns as some supporters seem to be. Better to own it.

One tweet I like that I saw last night:

@MarkAgee

I mean if Hillary really is using her last months and dying breaths to save America from fascism she should get her face on Rushmore

I should add that I was under a doctor's care at the time, but it was followed immediately by a trip overseas, which was fun but *very* exhausting. I imagine that Clinton's schedule will put her into that situation no matter how long she takes to recover.

It'll be interesting to see how she holds up under a brutal health challenge. Even Trump seems to recognize that this is not something to make fun of. So far, anyway.

I basically dropped off of the face of the earth this weekend, so I'm catching up on on this pneumonia story now. Anyone who can deal with the rigors of a campaign schedule with pneumonia is tough as nails and I find it crazy that people are trying to use it as an attack.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I basically dropped off of the face of the earth this weekend, so I'm catching up on on this pneumonia story now. Anyone who can deal with the rigors of a campaign schedule with pneumonia is tough as nails and I find it crazy that people are trying to use it as an attack.

I understand the attack. Pneumonia tends to be something people with weakened immune systems catch as their overall health falters. It could also just be that the campaign trail takes it's toll on the body. But both are valid points until you hear from a doctor (which of course will be assumed to be biased in this case).

I'm still waiting to see more come out about this, not that I'm expecting to hear a whole lot of info out of the Clinton camp. Not excited about how this impacts the election.

Unfortunate as the race is nearing an end. I am 100% sure Trumists will scream loudly and frequently that is proves she cannot lead - which is all kinds of silly since getting ill doesn't have anything do with policy, political goals, or leadership but (in my opinion) Trumpists lose on all those issues so this is their next vulnerable spot to attack.

I am just really encouraged by the fact that Republicans are finally paying attention to women's health issues.

I'm still waiting to see more come out about this, not that I'm expecting to hear a whole lot of info out of the Clinton camp. Not excited about how this impacts the election.

If her doctors can get her back to 100% in two weeks (i.e., before the debate), I suspect she can rebound just fine.

But if she misses it, or even seems unhealthy on camera, then I think all bets might be off.

Ugggh, it will take all my willpower to not flip out over this. If Hilary gets tanked because she got pneumonia... I fear the worst.

You just now fear the worst?

The last few weeks have been... sobering.

My only concern with this is how it appears to validate the fear mongering from the last month.

oilypenguin wrote:

You just now fear the worst?

The last few weeks have been... sobering.

Uh, no, I generally find it difficult to hold it together during election times.

I feel like the takeaway from Hillary continuing to campaign in spite of her illness and showing so much oomph while doing so should be seen as a GOOD thing. She's far tougher than Trump is.

BoogtehWoog wrote:

I feel like the takeaway from Hillary continuing to campaign in spite of her illness and showing so much oomph while doing so should be seen as a GOOD thing. She's far tougher than Trump is.

Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. -Booker T. Washington

I agree with people trying desperately not to freak out, and while I was 100% with you last night as I was reading all the news, let's be clear: as long as she gets through this, she will be fine. If she can say "I got pneumonia and still was able to take care of Trump in the debates", this sickness will be a much smaller foot note in the grand scheme of things.

This election cycle is exhausting though. I hate it. Only Hillary Clinton could keep Trump within striking distance of her. Trump was smart with saying "I hope she gets better, and I'll see her at the debates" over this health thing. It obviously wasn't him saying it, but Kellyanne behind the scenes, but it works.

Pages