GWJ Conference Call Episode 517

Seasons After Fall, The Final Station, Duelyst, Scythe, The Order 1886, Deus Ex: MD, Your Emails and More!

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This week Shawn, Julian and Rob Zacny catch up on your emails!

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Add And - Broke for Free - http://brokeforfree.com/ - 40:03

Comments

00:01:18 The Final Station
00:11:25 Scythe
00:22:02 Seasons After Fall
00:27:20 The Order 1886
00:32:40 Duelyst
00:39:19 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
00:40:13 Your Emails

...syk-see-sticks? really?

IMAGE(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/5/59/PixieSMT3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080613013128)
+
IMAGE(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/greekmythology/images/2/20/Styx_River.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151028010438)

or

IMAGE(https://ecs7.tokopedia.net/img/product-1/2015/8/26/11001203/11001203_ed9cef4a-bd7e-4a3f-a549-56dd241d7ca9.jpg)

For some reason I was thinking psy like Psylocke.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeB2D2bW4AAwPoV.jpg)

well, now I definitely need to get a purple streak in my hair.

Interesting how Shadowrun was brought up; I like how the karma system only grants you points for completing objectives, not points for killing enemies or say constantly crawling around vent ducts. You're never penalized or rewarded for doing things a certain way.

FYI, here's the link to Duelyst:

https://duelyst.com/

And you can use GWJRabbit as a referal. Also, here's the shut up and sit down video on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGYW...

Or I guess that's his side show ...

I liked the discussion about games that make you feel nothing. I've had that a couple of times when playing a game to review, and some of them are my favorite reviews because I just project something onto the blank canvas the game left in my soul and enjoy the movie.

Or I just make jokes about how uninspiring the game is, which can are some of my least favorite reviews.

So... Mixed bag.

My first response to the roleplaying question was also "Bad DM". I'm surprised no one brought up the idea of asking the other players their thoughts, see if it's a communal feeling, and then if it is approach the DM together. Perhaps that's not a good solution for someone that'd rather avoid conflict, though.

I'm surprised Vampire was brought up, but then again, my only exposure to White Wolf is through my brother, who took a narrative and Historian's approach to D&D. He has ultimately left D&D behind as he finds himself less interested in games where combat is built-in as conflict resolution. So saying that Vampire might be the game that they're playing, unless they're specifically fighting regular humans or other weaklings I cannot see combat being an ideal and regular conflict resolution.

Of course, that could just be further evidence to being a Bad DM. Or GM. Of course, my brother is one-of-a-kind in many ways, right down to caring about details no one else is going to (for example, he loves Forgotten Realms and will go so far as to mention whose face is on the currency to suggest the age of it (I myself cannot be so bothered to study a game's setting)).

I laughed when you brought up Kingsglaive, Certis, and then just... moved on. That was about the most JRPG discussion that's been on the conference call in forever.

I posted some thoughts in the FFXV thread, but yeah, I actually loved it and thought it was fantastic when you view it as a giant, beautiful video game trailer. I want to play around in that world and story.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I laughed when you brought up Kingsglaive, Certis, and then just... moved on. That was about the most JRPG discussion that's been on the conference call in forever.

I posted some thoughts in the FFXV thread, but yeah, I actually loved it and thought it was fantastic when you view it as a giant, beautiful video game trailer. I want to play around in that world and story.

I felt the temperature in the conversation drop a few degrees when I mentioned it. I didn't want to call down any wrathful Gods.

It has given me a weird hankering to play a JRPG though. It's been a good while since I dug into one for 20 hours and then gave up on it.

Certis wrote:
tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I laughed when you brought up Kingsglaive, Certis, and then just... moved on. That was about the most JRPG discussion that's been on the conference call in forever.

I posted some thoughts in the FFXV thread, but yeah, I actually loved it and thought it was fantastic when you view it as a giant, beautiful video game trailer. I want to play around in that world and story.

I felt the temperature in the conversation drop a few degrees when I mentioned it. I didn't want to call down any wrathful Gods.

It has given me a weird hankering to play a JRPG though. It's been a good while since I dug into one for 20 hours and then gave up on it.

Yeah, that temperature drop and moving quickly forward was what got me laughing. Well, if anyone ends up trying out FFXV, it'll be fun to hear thoughts, good or bad, especially if it's been awhile since people have visited the genre.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Certis wrote:
tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I laughed when you brought up Kingsglaive, Certis, and then just... moved on. That was about the most JRPG discussion that's been on the conference call in forever.

I posted some thoughts in the FFXV thread, but yeah, I actually loved it and thought it was fantastic when you view it as a giant, beautiful video game trailer. I want to play around in that world and story.

I felt the temperature in the conversation drop a few degrees when I mentioned it. I didn't want to call down any wrathful Gods.

It has given me a weird hankering to play a JRPG though. It's been a good while since I dug into one for 20 hours and then gave up on it.

Yeah, that temperature drop and moving quickly forward was what got me laughing. Well, if anyone ends up trying out FFXV, it'll be fun to hear thoughts, good or bad, especially if it's been awhile since people have visited the genre.

My wife preordered it.

By the time she gets it we hope to have our own podcast up and running, so I'll let you know. Her thoughts are bound to be interesting, and I'm not just saying that because she married me.

Certis wrote:

It has given me a weird hankering to play a JRPG though. It's been a good while since I dug into one for 20 hours and then gave up on it.

Got a platform of choice? Steam is crawling with 'em and some of the best of the last several years are on 3DS. Tell me, what would you say is your Tolerance Index for Pandering Otaku Bullsh*t?

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

My wife preordered it.

By the time she gets it we hope to have our own podcast up and running, so I'll let you know. Her thoughts are bound to be interesting, and I'm not just saying that because she married me.

Cool!

ccesarano wrote:
Certis wrote:

It has given me a weird hankering to play a JRPG though. It's been a good while since I dug into one for 20 hours and then gave up on it.

Got a platform of choice? Steam is crawling with 'em and some of the best of the last several years are on 3DS. Tell me, what would you say is your Tolerance Index for Pandering Otaku Bullsh*t?

I was eyeballing Legends of Heroes Trails in The Sky on PC. I think my biggest issue would be tons of grinding and random battles. That stuff feels so dull after a while, I definitely hit that wall with Ni no Kuni.

Certis wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
Certis wrote:

It has given me a weird hankering to play a JRPG though. It's been a good while since I dug into one for 20 hours and then gave up on it.

Got a platform of choice? Steam is crawling with 'em and some of the best of the last several years are on 3DS. Tell me, what would you say is your Tolerance Index for Pandering Otaku Bullsh*t?

I was eyeballing Legends of Heroes Trails in The Sky on PC. I think my biggest issue would be tons of grinding and random battles. That stuff feels so dull after a while, I definitely hit that wall with Ni no Kuni.

Yo Kai Watch! Play Yo Kai Watch!

See what folks in the JRPG thread think. I know the Trails series has been big around here. I've only played the tutorial of the first Trails game on PSP so I cannot comment on that one.

Certis wrote:

I was eyeballing Legends of Heroes Trails in The Sky on PC. I think my biggest issue would be tons of grinding and random battles. That stuff feels so dull after a while, I definitely hit that wall with Ni no Kuni.

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it if you aren't fully into JRPGs because it is pretty grindy. It's pretty good but it's a slow burn. There actually aren't random encounters. You have to run up to enemies to start an encounter. You can always run around or away to a degree if you want to avoid a battle. I'm about 10 hours into it. The battles are fairly interesting but not great. I think the story is going somewhere interesting, though, so it's probably one of those games that rewards time and patience.

Really, if you have a hankering for a JRPG, the most interesting thing out this year has by far been Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE which is a Persona-like game. The battle system in that is just gloriously fun. In a lot of ways, I think the actual battle system is more fun than previous Persona titles. If you can't deal with the pop-idol stuff which is actually kind of fun in an over-the-top way, you might as well just wait till FFXV or Persona 5.

If I could recommend one game on Steam that's fairly new but probably not expensive it would be FFXIII Lightning Returns. I think it's really interesting and avoids the whole young heroes trying to save the world plot. It's all about small character stories and has a fun groundhog day mechanic similar to Majora's Mask. You really don't need to know the stories from the other XIII games to play Lightning Returns.

Play it with the Japanese language track, though, because while Lightning's English voice is good, Hope's English voice is hella annoying.

The battle system is very action oriented but still has lots of strategy involved. Even if you only put 10 hours into it, it should be fairly fun and scratch that JRPG itch.

Yikes! That post got lengthy.

Aside from being super super Japan, I wouldn't recommend Tokyo Mirage Sessions as the combat is fun for a good 40 hours but then that last ten or fifteen it begins to grow tedious. It's not really a grindy game, but it's certainly long in the tooth. I enjoyed every minute of it, but the degree to which I enjoyed it in that final chapter waned compared to all the chapters prior.

Certis, what JRPG's have you enjoyed in the past? I'm tempted to recommend Valkyria Chronicles but it could be there's plenty of other titles on Steam within your wheelhouse worth recommending (or even in the PSN back-catalog. For example, I'm going through PS2 release Wild Arms 3 right now and really enjoying it).

I have vague, fond memories of Grandia, Tales of Symphonia, some of the early Suikoden games and ... Skies of Arcadia.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Certis wrote:

I was eyeballing Legends of Heroes Trails in The Sky on PC. I think my biggest issue would be tons of grinding and random battles. That stuff feels so dull after a while, I definitely hit that wall with Ni no Kuni.

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it if you aren't fully into JRPGs because it is pretty grindy. It's pretty good but it's a slow burn. There actually aren't random encounters. You have to run up to enemies to start an encounter. You can always run around or away to a degree if you want to avoid a battle. I'm about 10 hours into it. The battles are fairly interesting but not great. I think the story is going somewhere interesting, though, so it's probably one of those games that rewards time and patience.

Really, if you have a hankering for a JRPG, the most interesting thing out this year has by far been Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE which is a Persona-like game. The battle system in that is just gloriously fun. In a lot of ways, I think the actual battle system is more fun than previous Persona titles. If you can't deal with the pop-idol stuff which is actually kind of fun in an over-the-top way, you might as well just wait till FFXV or Persona 5.

If I could recommend one game on Steam that's fairly new but probably not expensive it would be FFXIII Lightning Returns. I think it's really interesting and avoids the whole young heroes trying to save the world plot. It's all about small character stories and has a fun groundhog day mechanic similar to Majora's Mask. You really don't need to know the stories from the other XIII games to play Lightning Returns.

Play it with the Japanese language track, though, because while Lightning's English voice is good, Hope's English voice is hella annoying.

The battle system is very action oriented but still has lots of strategy involved. Even if you only put 10 hours into it, it should be fairly fun and scratch that JRPG itch.

Yikes! That post got lengthy.

What an awesome post, thanks! Could have sworn Lightening Returns was a bit of a low-reviewed kinda game, so I never gave it a long look.

Certis wrote:

Could have sworn Lightening Returns was a bit of a low-reviewed kinda game, so I never gave it a long look.

For what it's worth, I never really got turn-based JRPGs until 3 years ago or so. Final Fantasy never made sense to me.

There were a few who dug it, and I think it's very underrated. They were obviously trying to make sidequests meaningful like The Witcher 3 does. They didn't succeed so well as TW3, but they certainly were trying, and the sidequest stories and characters are quite interesting.

I think it carries a lot of FFXIII disappointment baggage. Also, being 3rd in a series kinda has that whole Aladdin 2 or Beauty and the Beast 2 bias that it's going to be subpar. It didn't run great on the PS3 either (long load times being the main problem and there was a lot of aliasing). The big bummer is the final boss battle is way harder than it should be. I threw in the towel after getting frustrated and never finished the game even though I put in 50 hours or however many it was.

It's not like you'll get that far in if you try it, though, so I didn't bother mentioning it.

I was curious how the PC port is, and it's apparently pretty good but you can only max it out at 1080p 60 fps. 1080p is probably due to the console cut scenes or something. Looks like there are some resolution hacks but it might not be worth bothering with. At least you could run it at 60 fps and get really fast load times which will help a lot and be way better than the PS3 version.

rabbit wrote:

FYI, here's the link to Duelyst:

https://duelyst.com/

And you can use GWJRabbit as a referal. Also, here's the shut up and sit down video on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGYW...

Or I guess that's his side show ...

The art looks very Dungeon of the Endless. Gorgeous!

Duelyst sounds very interesting, but I can't play games like that on my PC. When the iOS client drops I am in.

For anyone interested in more traditional roguelikes I had fun for a while with Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Thread here, which gets active at tournament time. Although I haven't played a tournament in years, and I didn't do well, but disasters are fun.

Instructions for playing online, which has leaderboards and tiles, here.

Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup is still my favorite of all the classic roguelikes, too. Too me the essential features of Rogue that make up a (good) roguelike:
* Permadeath
* Turn-based gameplay/movement
* Procedural generation of something
* Management of limited resources (food, HP, equipment)
* Complex and interesting interaction of equipment, items, and abilities

The initial Rogue was fairly limited with the last feature. There were potions and scrolls you could find and use, some of which had multiple uses, but mostly were pretty straightforward. Later games added much more variety to your toolkit, and generated a lot of interesting mechanics and uses. DCSS is really good at this in particular. Online WebTilez is great because you can get feedback from other people while playing, and can send a link with a dump of your current situation to other people for suggestions.

If you watch this GDC Diablo Post-mortem, you'll see that Diablo was originally conceived of as a turn-based, tactical game like Rogue, and was later turned into an action game by just continuously running the action point clock and tweaking some things. Diablo didn't have quite the same level of interesting item interaction of DCSS and its ilk, but it's still pretty good.

That postmortem is with the Loom one, one of the must-watch of the GDC youtube channel, highly recommended.

Roguelike was always a term used to name all the rogue clones, Angband, Nethack, or the newest one like ADOM, the one I played the most, lately the term is being used as a marketing tool, like the RPG term in all the 90s videogames, that were mostly hack & slash, but the marketing departments used RPG in a phrase to raise awareness

kabutor wrote:

That postmortem is with the Loom one, one of the must-watch of the GDC youtube channel, highly recommended.

Roguelike was always a term used to name all the rogue clones, Angband, Nethack, or the newest one like ADOM, the one I played the most, lately the term is being used as a marketing tool, like the RPG term in all the 90s videogames, that were mostly hack & slash, but the marketing departments used RPG in a phrase to raise awareness :)

"RPG elements" broadly came to mean your character's abilities at the end were different than at the beginning. Similar to "roguelike," I think there's still truth in the term. RPGs almost always involve levelling systems, though there are many other common elements to RPGs (story focus, the element of chance, player choice). Rogue had plenty of elements that could have been referenced when people initially started saying that games were "like" it, but the term seems to be settling into a meaning of "repetitive dungeon-crawling."

Just going to take a peak at my cards and maybe play a practice game. 5 Duelyst matches later...