Turkey coup?

Turkey coup attempt: military claims takeover of government – live

The Associated Press is now carrying fuller quotes from the Turkish prime minister’s interview with NTV.

Having confirmed his belief that an attempted coup was underway, Yıldırım said: “We are focusing on the possibility of an attempt [coup]. There was an illegal act by a group within the military that was acting out of the chain of military command. Our people should know that we will not allow any activity that would harm democracy.”

The Dogan news agency said one-way traffic on the Bosporus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges were blocked. Video footage showed the bridge being blocked by military vehicles.

CNN - Turkish military units attempt uprising, PM says

Reddit link seems to have a lot of information.

https://www.reddit.com/live/x9gf3don...

What the f*ck.

More like Erdo-gone.

I really love how they waited for him to go on vacation.
This is not unexpected for Turkey. Their military has historically been a pro-democratic and westernizing force within the country. Ataturk did a good one.

I tend to have the opinion that military coups can be beneficial in some countries and cases; in the long term bringing them away from dictatorship, albeit taking a road through another dictatorship first. In multiple countries historically, the military has been more interested in the well-being of the citizens and their freedom, than the previous dictators in power. On the other hand, the military has been a prime source for creating such dictators in the first place.

As awful as Erdogan is, I don't think Turkey is such a case though. A failed military coup could really fuel Erdogans existing path toward dictatorship.

I dunno man. Turkey loves it's military coups.
Many of these are due to the fact that the Turkish military is generally not a fan of islamists (e.g. AKP).

Well, sh*t. That's some wonderful added instability, especially since the US and NATO have nuclear missiles in Turkey at the moment.

Looks like a coup.

Here's the problem with that. I'm no fan or Erdogan, at all, but he was democratically elected. You cannot claim that the Turkish Military is pro-democracy and then topple a leader elected by popular mandate. Only recently. That is fraught with problems.

If the Military just don't like certain perspectives, again, that is fraught with problems.

Lets also not forget that the Kurds wouldn't view the Turkish Military as some benevolent force in the country with many of their people either dying in custody or disappearing altogether.

What this will mean for all the Syrian refugees in the country remains to be seen as well.

This is very worrying on many levels.

Axon wrote:

Looks like a coup.

Here's the problem with that. I'm no fan or Erdogan, at all, but he was democratically elected. You cannot claim that the Turkish Military is pro-democracy and then topple a leader elected by popular mandate. Only recently. That is fraught with problems.

If the Military just don't like certain perspectives, again, that is fraught with problems.

Lets also not forget that the Kurds wouldn't view the Turkish Military as some benevolent force in the country with many of their people either dying in custody or disappearing altogether.

What this will mean for all the Syrian refugees in the country remains to be seen as well.

This is very worrying on many levels.

Wasn't there a lot of concerns that the election last year was rigged though?

The military has been putting Turkey back on it's feet after coups for nearly the last hundred years. I suspect there's an official manual for it.

That Reddit liveblog is amazing. Never seen so much live info coming in. But of course most of it is raw and not entirely trustworthy. Still fascinating.

Clusks wrote:

Wasn't there a lot of concerns that the election last year was rigged though?

There were concerns with how the campaign was conducted but as far as I'm aware the actual system of voting wasn't criticised. Either way, I'm still very uneasy that Military coups are they way to solve that problem.

Robear wrote:

That Reddit liveblog is amazing. Never seen so much live info coming in. But of course most of it is raw and not entirely trustworthy. Still fascinating.

Isn't it, though?

According to The Guardian live news thingy Erdogan is blaming this on the Gulen movement as opposed to whatever Secular elements remain.

Axon wrote:

Here's the problem with that. I'm no fan or Erdogan, at all, but he was democratically elected. You cannot claim that the Turkish Military is pro-democracy and then topple a leader elected by popular mandate. Only recently. That is fraught with problems.

Yeah. I guess someone could make an argument for Preemptive Coup.
But no thanks.

Zona wrote:

According to The Guardian live news thingy Erdogan is blaming this on the Gulen movement as opposed to whatever Secular elements remain.

The guy was moving the country in a more religious direction, right? He wasn't moving enough? Wondering if this is convenient blaming, trying to get Western powers on his side?

What a mess, though.

Zona wrote:

According to The Guardian live news thingy Erdogan is blaming this on the Gulen movement as opposed to whatever Secular elements remain.

That is fascinating.

Edit: I'm with you, MilkmanDanimal. There could any of several scenarios playing out here.

Edit 2: I was planning on going to bed early tonight as well! Future me won't be happy.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

The guy was moving the country in a more religious direction, right? He wasn't moving enough? Wondering if this is convenient blaming, trying to get Western powers on his side?

Erdogan has spend years saying whatever different groups want to hear. One day the great devil is the USA, yesterday it was Islamists, another day EU, tomorrow the tooth-fairy.
Blaming everyone else is standard politics in all countries ever, but Erdogan seem to have made it into an art form, setting up different groups inside and outside Turkey against each other, leaving himself as the only stabilizing factor for everyone to cling to.

Hardly a loss if he was thrown out, but he is a popular and democratically elected guy. The military would have no justification to stand on.

Civilians now facing down tanks. Crowds of pro-Erdogan supporters on the streets. Not good.

Shadout wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

The guy was moving the country in a more religious direction, right? He wasn't moving enough? Wondering if this is convenient blaming, trying to get Western powers on his side?

Erdogan has spend years saying whatever different groups want to hear. One day the great devil is the USA, yesterday it was Islamists, another day EU, tomorrow the tooth-fairy.
Blaming everyone else is standard politics in all countries ever, but Erdogan seem to have made it into an art form, setting up different groups inside and outside Turkey against each other, leaving himself as the only stabilizing factor for everyone to cling to.

Hardly a loss if he was thrown out, but he is a popular and democratically elected guy. The military would have no justification to stand on.

Apparently the Turkish military has a constitutional clause where they are supposed to overthrow the government if the government poses a threat to secularity. Or that's what people from Turkey in other forums are saying. Given that the current constitution was written under a military junta I can believe it.

I'm still not going to rush to any judgements, it's still not a sure thing that they'll even succeed.

CNN Turk anchor reports soldiers have entered their building: "That's it, we now have to go"

Is this the first coup in a 'major' country since the widespread adoption of the internet? I can't remember another one since 2000 or so. It will be interesting to see how the instant communication everywhere shapes it.

It very much sounds like it has not succeeded - though nothing is obviously certain. I'll bet that there will be a lot less democracy in Turkey going forward. Erdogan is not going to be kind.

Yeah, if this coup doesn't succeed I'm thinking we'll have three major Islamic powers now, with Turkey joining Iran and Saudi Arabia. Though it'll really be Erdogan attempting to keep power and using Islam to do that, naturally.

How does this affect Turkey's accession into the EU?

Probably doesn't. Not like they were getting into EU in any foreseeable decade anyway.
Certainly not as long as Erdogan is around - he doesn't exactly seem interested in getting closer to EU.
Seems like he is happy if he can position Turkey as the unavoidable and necessary main power around the Middle East, for both EU and US. Which might be smart enough in pure power politic view - why join someone when you can have them come begging you for help instead - but considering how much of a chaos the Middle East is, maybe not the most stable and secure path to power and growth.

Paleocon wrote:

How does this affect Turkey's accession into the EU?

Apparently the UK couldn't handle an influx of Polish immigrants.

Turkey joining the EU as a full member was a pipe dream by people (me) who thought the world was a whole lot more accepting than it actually is.

President-For-Life Erdogan... Sigh... This is a real death-blow for the secularists, I think. That was kind of the role of the military, since it didn't answer to the President. And now that's failed, look for him to modify the Constitution to kill that role. Expect more religious law influence in the judiciary going forward.

One can hardly blame Erdogan for modifying the constitution to limit the role of the military after this (not that it matters, really, if the military want to make a coup, it hardly matters if it is somehow "allowed" in the constitution or not).
He must be overjoyed, finally getting a good excuse for rewriting the constitution - other than "I really desire to be your megalomaniacal dictator".

You have to give it to him, he does need to catch his breath.

Turkey’s state-run news agency says authorities have detained 10 members of Turkey’s highest administrative court as the government appeared to press ahead with a purge of judiciary officials with alleged links to a US-based Muslim cleric.

The Anadolu Agency said that arrest warrants were issued for 48 administrative court members and 140 members of Turkey’s appeals court. Earlier, Anadolu said a body overseeing judges and prosecutors in Turkey has dismissed 2,745 judges across Turkey.

jowner wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

How does this affect Turkey's accession into the EU?

Apparently the UK couldn't handle an influx of Polish immigrants.

Turkey joining the EU as a full member was a pipe dream by people (me) who thought the world was a whole lot more accepting than it actually is.

While Turkey's cultural make up is a factor in its lack of progress on membership, there is actually a greater and more realpolitik factor at play: Qaulified Majority Voting.

The long and short of QMV means the states with the more citizens have their votes on the council weighted and MEPs applied porportionally in Parlaiment. This suited Germany, France and Britain as they were the paymasters.

With Britain leaving, the chance the Turkey, who has more citizens than Germany but is economically far weaker, joining is a distant hope. There is no way France is going to dilute it's influence in the current context, whatever about Germany.

Same goes for Russia joining. Both countries would have to have some kind of associate deal with the EU and have a long track record of proper governance before membership would even be seriously considered.

As Shadout says, this has done nothing to effect Turkey's chances at they close to zero at it is. Religion is actually the minor factor why.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Is this the first coup in a 'major' country since the widespread adoption of the internet? I can't remember another one since 2000 or so. It will be interesting to see how the instant communication everywhere shapes it.

Are we not counting Egypt as a major country? (Serious question, that's not supposed to come off as snarky as it probably does).

It looks like the coup has failed. A helicopter from Turkey fled and landed in Greece, the passengers are said to be seven military and one civilian supporter of the coup, and they are requesting political asylum from Greece.