Nioh Slash-All!

Stele wrote:

There's definitely a lot of loot.

I did pick up Nioh 2 the other day on sale, since the remaster gets a free PS5 upgrade in Feb. I'll probably mess around with the first until then, and if I haven't beat it, move on to 2.

Just my personal opinion with my short time playing Nioh 2, it feels geared more towards Nioh veterans. They layer on even more systems, some of which I'm still struggling to understand fully and they've styled their challenges in that way that's meant to upend your mastery of core mechanics from Nioh 1 but it does sometimes come across as reaching and a bit annoying. A good example of this are the Other Realm areas in Nioh 2. If you are having trouble managing your Ki in the first game, wait until you experience the "Ki hate" in the Other Realm. There's clear design direction here for making you utilize your anima and shiftling forms to compensate for your hampered normal attacks.

My hot take with 2 at the moment is they could update Nioh 1 with customizable character and throw in the two new weapons as well and I'd happily play that version instead of the sequel.

Glycerine wrote:

Could not agree more, way too much loot.

There is. Though that is more a problem of quantity than quality.

I might like the Souls games more than Nioh. Much more even. But it is the build and loot stuff that makes it its own type of game. Which is good imo. I definitely think the game would be worse off without those.

Maclintok wrote:
Stele wrote:

But I went to the gate, saved, and then died to the yokai in a house nearby about 3-4 times before calling it a night. Haha.

IIRC, that yokai is optional. I don't remember if you can only enter the house through the roof. It's so cramped in there, I think I rushed to the door to open it to lead the demon outside for easier fighting.

Yes. The 2nd time last night, I grabbed my spirit, and mashed O to open the door. Died as the door was opening haha. Then failed a couple times and it was like 3am, time to quit.

Maclintok wrote:
Stele wrote:

I used living weapon on the couple of yokai that I did defeat and that was super helpful. I also started using bow to pick enemies off on the rooftops, especially when they were grouped, to even the odds. And also when they were archers to shoot first so they didn't shoot me.

Game is very slow going. Not sure how long I'll stick with it, but at least I made it a little farther and don't feel quite as useless.

Dope! Yes, yes, it's all about being more methodical and making use of all the tools at your disposal. Glad to see you making more progress!

Thanks. Today during kids nap time I finished off that yokai. I cleared out the cave down the beach. I backtracked to the middle shrine, and then opened the ladder shortcut to the first shrine. Cleared out all of those crawling poison guys, and found 2 more kodama for blessings. Think I covered everything in the area except the ship. Fought a few red summons for fun and loot. Felt like it was time to try the ship.

And died maybe a dozen times. Of course one time, I got cute on the run to the ship and died, so I lost another few thousand amrita. Ugh. That ticked me off more than any boss deaths honestly.

First time I got there I popped my spirit and got him to 2nd phase, maybe down to 1/3 health. Then most every run since has been worse. I think I've only seen 2nd phase 3 times. Any tips?

Watched a couple videos but those people are clearly higher level. They get hit for 20-30% health. I lose 60% or so. If I get hit twice without healing in between I'm dead. I dodge his first chain attacks pretty easy. But that spin sneaks up on me and I can't get clear fast enough. Tried blocking it, which did work, but sent my stamina to 0, and sometimes he keeps swinging and hits me with 0 stamina, which seems to do even more damage. Ugh.

One suggestion I saw that I haven't tried yet are maybe using all light armor to dodge more? I'm in a mix of mostly Medium right now with 60% burden or so, in green, still pretty mobile. But I could try to trim it up I guess?

There's no need to get fancy with Onryoki. Hit and run, hit and run. This is an exercise in spacing and finding short openings time and time again. The longer you stay in the pocket, the more likely he will do his spin-o-rama with the balls and chains. You can get up close enough to avoid getting hit by the spin but it can be tricky.

I documented all of my Nioh boss fights years ago but somehow missed this one. I recorded a repeat encounter later in the game when he shows up as a mid-level fight. The fundamentals are the same. In fact, I was a lot more timid in this fight than I remember. I fell back to my safe approach of duck in, duck out (mostly). The encounter actually gets easier once he rages out.

Haha so many dead signs on the ground.

Stele wrote:

I dodge his first chain attacks pretty easy. But that spin sneaks up on me and I can't get clear fast enough.

I really struggled with him at first, then I realised that I could just dodge forward and roll beneath his legs when he raised his arms for a ground-pound attack. Following the roll are a couple of quick hits to his back, and then dodge out to avoid the inevitable spin. He went from difficult to trivial.

For my money, you need to stay just outside of his strike range. Too close, and you'll get taken out by the spin. Too far, and he starts distance attacks. The good news is that he's a skill-check to ensure you're ready to proceed. The bad news is the next boss is Hino-Enma, and she can go DIAF.

Coldstream wrote:

The bad news is the next boss is Hino-Enma, and she can go DIAF.

I've heard about her already. Lots of comments on the videos of this boss talking about the next one. Just put the toddler down for bed, hopefully I'll get to try a few attempts soon. Beating the first area would be an accomplishment I think. Unlocking blacksmith, map, etc... there's like a whole game behind this wall right?

Crazy, you think London is a tutorial, and then the dojo tutorial is labeled as one... but then this level is still just learning the game... and then maybe the real game starts, after 8 hours or something.

Polygon did have an intro to Nioh article and then an intermediate Nioh article, that's supposed to start after 10 hours. Makes sense now.

Stele wrote:

Beating the first area would be an accomplishment I think. Unlocking blacksmith, map, etc... there's like a whole game behind this wall right?

Crazy, you think London is a tutorial, and then the dojo tutorial is labeled as one... but then this level is still just learning the game... and then maybe the real game starts, after 8 hours or something.

As Clocky said, the fishing village is really a superb area to hone skills. Think of it less as a tutorial, and more of a proving ground. It's super satisfying to beat the first boss, and I'd encourage you to sit back and take stock of where you are in terms of your own skill, compared to where you were when you started the village sequence. It's really shocking how much improvement a single level can give you.

There's definitely a ton of stuff waiting for you behind that first boss, but it's mostly fun stuff that sits on top of the fundamentals that are being driven into you right now. Stuff like leveling up your weapons and inheriting traits will become more important than they are now.

Man, you're really going to make me boot this up again!

Beat him after about 5 more runs tonight. Not a ton different than my earlier tries, except I really got my ass out of there before he did the big swings. And from the videos, I started running after he picked up the ball in phase 2, instead of waiting for him to throw it, I was already a moving target, and that seemed to keep me from getting hit with those.

Almost had him on the very first try, down to 20% or so. That's how it usually is when you take a break and come back later that day or the next day, fresh.

Now looking through all the forge, storehouse (hey London items), and dojo.

Congrats Stele! The next main mission has quite a different pace to it. Still building on the lessons you learned in the fisherman village. I look forward to your Hinno-Enma battle reports.

Maclintok wrote:

I look forward to your Hinno-Enma battle reports.

Indeed! If they are anything like mine, they'll have a lot of F-bombs in them.

The first time I beat her it was when I had a summon to assist, and that still took two tries. Happily, the second time I beat her (on my current play-through) it was solo, using nearly every trick in my arsenal and all of the twitch skills I had built up. Heck of a fight, but super satisfying. I think I actually jumped up and yelled a victory cry when it happened. My wife just rolled her eyes.

I went for the village sub-mission first. Didn't realize I died on the end boss last night, as he just seemed like another tough humanoid enemy. Died on the way back this morning, so lost a few thousand more. Found another yokai in the cave, so beat my head against that a couple times. Then I made a quick run towards the boss, skipping a few enemies. Got there pretty easily, and surprise, when I beat that tough guy, mission over. Oh well.

Went on to real 2nd mission now... talking cat spirits, ok... and then some fun cliffside combat. I tried my spear a bit more here since it has that nice shove stun/attack. Knocks guys off the cliff pretty easy. Still haven't found second shrine yet, but will get back to it later.

So a couple of tries today. Got to a 2nd shrine finally. Started mixing things up with my spear, and trying low stance against those crawling guys. That seemed to work much better. And I got a spear that restored 87 health when I defeat an enemy in melee, so that was helping keep me topped off from little nicks and scratches instead of wasting elixir.

Then getting the bottom of the area, so many yokai, and most of them seem to respawn instead of the one-time defeat ones like the first level? Ok, a little tougher. Tried going right, tried going left, down some ledges... finally tried a ledge down the middle and oh there's a 3rd shrine?! Good grief, that would have helped earlier.

Anyway... 1st run from that shrine I went to the cloud yokai in the corner that I could see... which opened the path to the boss. I think I hit her once? She paralyzed me twice. I died soon after. Uh... damn. That's not going to be fun.

We'll see...

Making some good progress I see! Yes you’re correct about the yokai that don’t spawn from the yokai realm mist: these will respawn when you use a shrine or die. Best to stealth or run past them, if they are en route to a boss fight retry, for example.

The boss is Hinno-Enma, the one we’ve all been gabbing about:

Spoiler:

- Wear paralysis resistance gear if you have it
- Equip paralytic needles to a quick slot
- Learn her patterns when in the air. Her projectiles don’t always have to be dodged.
- Also be patient with her when she’s fighting on foot. Learn to sprint away from her but pull a sharp u-turn once she’s done her big attack or combo so you can punish.
- Do attacks that drain her Ki. She can be gassed. This applies to pretty much all humanoid bosses.
As always, good luck!

Ding dong the witch is dead. Mwahahaha.

So I was using more and more spear yesterday. Got a great one that dropped, was about 20 more damage than the dual sword I had been using. So started focusing on her with it.

I did pick up the full archer set during the level, so had about +21 paralysis when wearing it. I did have a lot of needles. But I had to get hit 2x before I was paralyzed, so that was good. I watched a video for some of her moves. Then I went in and died in about 5 seconds, haha.

I picked up the Guardian Spirit talisman onmyo power way early on, as that looked pretty useful. And it has saved my life against a lot of Yokai, and even helped with the first boss. Take a second to use it, but the guardian (Kato) launches forward and does a bunch of fire damage. The first time I tried it on her, it exhausted her ki and knocked her down. So that was cool, and I have 3 of those. I almost beat her on attempt 5 or 6, when I landed all 3 of those. She was down to 5-10% health, and right after that I remembered I should have thrown some Shuriken at her. But I had changed my shortcuts around to get the needles on demand instead of my thrown weapon.

Mac's tip about Ki gassing also reminded me of something I read about Kunai. I saw a tip about hitting her with kunai while she's in the air and it could drain Ki and she would fall and get stunned. I only had Shuriken so far, but had a couple points I hadn't used yet waiting on better skills. So I put them in Kunai and switched out to those. So that's what finally helped me win, on attempt 11 or 12. I got 2 of 3 guardian knockdowns and heavy combos. And then I hit her with 3 kunai while she was in the air, and knocked her down for another. Same thing as the almost run, down to 5-10%, but I was much better at dodging in and out and just chipped away and won!

It's still pretty crazy, I had 4-5 runs where she annihilated me in 3-4 hits, in a matter of seconds. I was too busy recovering my spirit and missed a dodge, or she got me in a combo, or I got stunned. Then I think one time I got too close and got embraced and died. But most of the other runs were decent for a minute, taking her down between 40-60% health before I got tripped up, stunned, combo'd, whatever. But those 2 runs, the almost and the victory, were the only time I got much past the halfway point.

Feels awesome.

Grats. You basically have won the entire game then

Okay, for me there was one other really difficult witch later on too. So maybe not the entire game.

Stele wrote:

I saw a tip about hitting her with kunai while she's in the air and it could drain Ki and she would fall and get stunned.

Congratulations! That's a big fight to get behind you. I was going to let you bang your head against it for a while since that's part of the experience, and recommend hitting her in the air if you got frustrated. Sounds like you powered right through though! I feel like you've beaten the two main gate-keepers at this point, so I think you can settle in and really enjoy the rest of the game. Congrats again!

Stele wrote:

Ding dong the witch is dead. Mwahahaha.

Feels awesome.

Yesssss! Congrats once again, Stele.

Well, Japan is your oyster now. You've survived Nioh's hazing ritual. I can think of a handful of obstacles from here that may cause you some concern. At least they gave me a lot of trouble. Let's see... Umi-Bozu, the Ogress, the Raven Tengu enemies, Tachibana Muneshige (the side mission duel), Date Shigezane. Yeah... there's a whole lot of game waiting for you still!

So what's your impression of Nioh now compared to a week ago?

Maclintok wrote:

So what's your impression of Nioh now compared to a week ago?

Still think the combat is more fast paced like Bloodborne, rather that DS. That's actually what I meant to play last month but I thought I'd just give this a try first. And a little bit of stubbornness kept me trying these early bosses until I got them.

If I hadn't beat those 2 bosses I might have put it on the shelf. Now I think I'll stick it out and see where the story goes and maybe try to beat it. There's a lot of interesting combat here, tons of loot, and so far an entertaining story. Worth spending some more time with for sure.

Stele wrote:

There's a lot of interesting combat here, tons of loot, and so far an entertaining story. Worth spending some more time with for sure.

If you're curious, the character is based (very, very loosely, obviously) on a real person: William Adams, known to the Japanese as Miura Anjin. Multiple areas of Japan have some reference to him and I believe there's still an annual festival in Shizuoka. Funnily enough, it's the same guy that Clavell's Shōgun is based on.

Urge to re-install growing, must resist...

Glycerine wrote:

Urge to re-install growing, must resist...

One of us! One of us!

Oh yeah the Anjin text or scene was right after that boss, suggesting he go by that instead of William

Coldstream wrote:
Glycerine wrote:

Urge to re-install growing, must resist...

One of us! One of us!

IMAGE(https://i.giphy.com/media/10cpkZkTSkj7dm/giphy.webp)

Last night I did the sub mission for the one I had just completed. Killed that turtle like enemy that was jumping around and mission complete. Got a nice Earth damage spear for that.

So then on to mission 3 of japan. Outside in the rain with a little river. Cool level. Completed everything including the door back to the shrine and then over to the gate, back for a key, and found the new shrine, all without dying. Then promptly died to the statue enemies right beside the new shrine haha.

Anyway, then tried lightning lion boss (Nue?) at lunch today. What a jerk. I did realize that the armor set I found in the level gives me lightning and poison protection, so I put that on after just one or two attempts. At least it takes him 2 or 3 hits to finish me. And after maybe 10 attempts I haven't got poisoned yet.

But only one time did I get him below 70-75% health and that time I got him all the way down to 30-40%. But still doesn't feel like I'm very close yet. Twice my spirit had dropped right near where he spawns and he electrocuted me when I was trying to get it and the retrieval wasn't successful and I died before picking it up. So I've only got to try my spirit weapon once on him.

I guess I should watch a video or two. Doesn't seem like he's that tough in theory but in practice I'm not doing very well.

Also I don't understand why bosses fight through 0/red ki? Normal enemies crumple and I get a chance to wail on them. Even the last boss I could knock down. But I've thought I had the lion stunned a few times and he just fights right through it and kicks my ass. Not fair.

Stele wrote:

I guess I should watch a video or two. Doesn't seem like he's that tough in theory but in practice I'm not doing very well.

I was getting my ass kicked by him, and then I realised that the little roof over the entry gate blocks his lightning from above. It was a knife-fight in a phone-booth but I got him!

It is a difficult fight, but also the first I really liked. Felt more like a good Souls fight, where you can feel getting better as you keep trying. Unlike the stun witch.

Coldstream wrote:
Stele wrote:

I guess I should watch a video or two. Doesn't seem like he's that tough in theory but in practice I'm not doing very well.

I was getting my ass kicked by him, and then I realised that the little roof over the entry gate blocks his lightning from above. It was a knife-fight in a phone-booth but I got him!

That's a cool strategy, using the environment to block. I noticed the one move where he does lightning breath in an arc in front of him I was able to jump behind one of those fences and block. But it's also possible to just roll dodge through it, so that seemed easier.

Oh yeah, Nue was a pain in the arse, even on repeated encounters and playthroughs. The major key for me was getting into kiss range when he's shooting the lightning beam from his mouth. He makes a pretty good case for improving your Ki pulses in close range. And cleanse those yokai pools!

Spoiler:

In hindsight there's no need for me to be so far away from him. Just makes getting in close that much harder. Not to worry: you'll meet him again in closer quarters further down the road.

Good grief. I spent 40 minutes banging my head against Nue tonight. Many more attempts than the first 2 bosses but very quick attempts. One time I popped spirit and got him under 50%. Otherwise I died in the opening seconds or within 45 seconds of fight. It was terrible.

Just when I was about to give up, I had a good start where I got him down to 60-70%, while only getting clipped by the tail. Decided this might be the run and popped spirit. Then finished him off before it ended. Just wailed on him, dodging a bit but staying in close and beat the hell out of him.

So weird.

And then that wasn't the end of the level at all. Next area was fun, some obvious floor traps, living statues, interesting stuff. Died a few times but always got my amrita back. Then I got the co-op NPC which was cool. She carried her own.

Then boss... You again! And... Beat him first try!!!

Had a good run going, got him to half health. Popped spirit, got him down to 10% or less. Then I was poking, trying not to screw it up. Threw all my spirit attacks but one missed. Then I took a big hit, down under 100 health myself. Backed off to heal and then stayed back. Threw all my kunai, and he still had a sliver of health. Threw 4 more shruiken, and that finished him off. Hahaha. Not ashamed of it. I won, first try.