There an interesting article on Slate today about what the "Jedi problem" in Star Wars. it echoes some of the thoughts and themes posted on this thread over the years.
Yeah, I dunno. I feel like the problem with SW shows isn't that there are a bunch of jedi, it's that the shows are uninteresting and, with the exception of Andor and maybe the first season of Mandalorian (though that might have been novelty as much as anything), they exist primarily as a vehicle for the license and creating an entertaining show is a secondary concern.
Andor felt like the creators had a good idea for a spy story and thought 'how can we tie this into the SW universe' rather than starting from the premise of 'we've got all this cool SW stuff, how can we add a spy.'
Edit: I should add, though, that I say all this as someone who fell off The Mandalorian a few episodes into Season 2 and hasn't watched anything else other than Andor. Rise of Skywalker did a real good job of killing my interest in the universe.
* I do need to watch Andor before my subscription runs out.
WATCH ANDOR!
I'm gonna admit, I cried a little bit when the Ghost came out of the shadow of that larger ship. Such a beauty.
Well Andor is the best show they've done, and there's no Jedi anywhere. It's Rogue One all over and it kicked ass.
Well no overt Jedi.
Why did Ahsoka never...
Spoiler:Use her secondary/shoto blade in either fight?
Also, once Ahsoka gets out of the world between worlds, I assume they'll get the Purgill's to take them to Ezra/Thrawn/Sabine.
I think she was using Anakins lightsaber style which is a one blade style.
Edit: Some research has indicated it was the style that Quigon used.I think Ahsoka will use the world between worlds to go to Ezra directly. But Hera will probably use the Purgill.
I'm afraid I found this week's episode disappointing. Far from being thrilled by the fights, I found them tedious filler. it felt like more than half the episode was taken up with averagely choreographed, and ultimately inconclusive, light saber fights. (Though - during the fight with the Inquisitor - I thought I detected a nod to the most famous fight scene from the 70s TV series, 'The Water Margin'. And I very, very much liked that; the show was a big part of my childhood.)
I also wondered whether Ashoka is for a much younger age group, as I watched the characters sometimes behave in ways which seemed to defy common sense for an adult viewer The one that stuck in my craw most was...
Hera's complete failure to attack the hyperspace-capable ship... despite being specifically told to do so. Instead, she decided just to park in front of it.
No rationale was offered for this decision. She just did it. And it appeared to achieve nothing, but the deaths of two of her team.
but perhaps this is all part of some greater plan that will be revealed in the coming episodes.
The other thing that I'm not to comfortable with is
the reappearance of the world-between-worlds thing.
Star Wars: Rebels took some brave swings that I really liked, but adding even more magical "wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey" stuff to the Star Wars universe was not one of them. There's now too much potential for deux ex machina; what with space wizards, semi-Jedi inquisitors, space witches, portals to places-that-aren't-places, re-incarnation as wolves and inter-galactic whales.
As someone noted in the thread for the Slate article that I posted, 'A New Hope' posited a world in which magic was:
(a) pretty weak - Jedi had a sixth sense of some kind, and could choke or push you using the power of their minds, but that was about it
(b) pretty rare - there appeared to be only 3 fully-trained Jedi left.
By the time of 'Return of the Jedi' was released, the magic was strong enough to allow users to cast lightening bolts from their hands. By the time of 'Obi Wan Kenobi', a Jedi can pull spaceships out of the air!
And now - in Ashoka - it feels like there is magic and magic wielders everywhere you look.
And now - in Ashoka - it feels like there is magic and magic wielders everywhere you look.
Isn't this back to the Old Republic/High Republic though?
detroit20 wrote:And now - in Ashoka - it feels like there is magic and magic wielders everywhere you look.
Isn't this back to the Old Republic/High Republic though?
That may well be true. I don't know. Apart from buying a couple of editions of the Marvel's Star Wars comics in the 1970s, my knowledge and experience of the IP is limited entirely to the films and the TV shows. I never explored the various spin-off games, books and comics.
(As I understand it, with the canon reset of 2012, there no longer is any Old Republic/High Republic beyond that which is mentioned the official Star Wars media.)
MannishBoy wrote:detroit20 wrote:And now - in Ashoka - it feels like there is magic and magic wielders everywhere you look.
Isn't this back to the Old Republic/High Republic though?
That may well be true. I don't know. Apart from buying a couple of editions of the Marvel's Star Wars comics in the 1970s, my knowledge and experience of the IP is limited entirely to the films and the TV shows. I never explored the various spin-off games, books and comics.
(As I understand it, with the canon reset of 2012, there no longer is any Old Republic/High Republic beyond that which is mentioned the official Star Wars media.)
The High Republic is where they are releasing a lot of books and comics right now.
I was shocked when they killed
Ezra and he just went up in a puff of smoke. I was also shocked when Thrawn showed up at the end pretending to be Anakin. The only problem I have with this show is they setup that they are looking for Ezra and Thrawn but the bad guys already have them. Well they lost one of them. Ahsoka will probably kill Thrawn next episode like she did Ezra.
Then about the scrooge mcduck robot
he trains people in using light sabers. Why isn't he using a light saber. We all know he is General Grievous father. They both have four arms and they are both robots. Scrooge bot clearly trained Grievous when he was a kid.
My prediction is that the night sister is really Mephisto.
You might be on to something, Baron. Or… you might be on something.
Or he isn't Baron at all, but a pod person from the planet Mars ........... or an AI.
I'm afraid I found this week's episode disappointing. Far from being thrilled by the fights, I found them tedious filler. it felt like more than half the episode was taken up with averagely choreographed, and ultimately inconclusive, light saber fights. (Though - during the fight with the Inquisitor - I thought I detected a nod to the most famous fight scene from the 70s TV series, 'The Water Margin'. And I very, very much liked that; the show was a big part of my childhood.)
I also wondered whether Ashoka is for a much younger age group, as I watched the characters sometimes behave in ways which seemed to defy common sense for an adult viewer The one that stuck in my craw most was...
Spoiler:Hera's complete failure to attack the hyperspace-capable ship... despite being specifically told to do so. Instead, she decided just to park in front of it.
No rationale was offered for this decision. She just did it. And it appeared to achieve nothing, but the deaths of two of her team.
I don't think they were in weapons range yet when it jumped. They were still on approach. Literally nothing they could have done to stop it.
The other thing that I'm not to comfortable with isSpoiler:the reappearance of the world-between-worlds thing.
Star Wars: Rebels took some brave swings that I really liked, but adding even more magical "wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey" stuff to the Star Wars universe was not one of them. There's now too much potential for deux ex machina; what with space wizards, semi-Jedi inquisitors, space witches, portals to places-that-aren't-places, re-incarnation as wolves and inter-galactic whales.
As someone noted in the thread for the Slate article that I posted, 'A New Hope' posited a world in which magic was:
(a) pretty weak - Jedi had a sixth sense of some kind, and could choke or push you using the power of their minds, but that was about it
(b) pretty rare - there appeared to be only 3 fully-trained Jedi left.By the time of 'Return of the Jedi' was released, the magic was strong enough to allow users to cast lightening bolts from their hands. By the time of 'Obi Wan Kenobi', a Jedi can pull spaceships out of the air!
And now - in Ashoka - it feels like there is magic and magic wielders everywhere you look.
The logo's font and the ending credits should have made the reappearance of the World Between Worlds obvious in retrospect. I would also expect the Mortis gods to get at least a mention, if not a whole bunch of new info revealed about them. As for the other part, Filoni has always been about expanding the The Force beyond just how it's used by Jedi vs Sith, which are really just two different religions that formed around the use of it, so I dunno what to tell you. The things they've already established about how the Force exists and interacts with the galaxy means there have always been groups that learned to use it. So reveals about specific groups existing shouldn't be a big surprise.
Despite the potential being there to use force shenanigans to get out of trouble, Filoni has a really good track record of using them in service of the story he's telling, rather than using them to avoid consequences. Like, yes, when Ezra was in the World Between Worlds, he pulled Ashoka out of the path of Vader's lightsaber, sparing her from certain death. But in doing so she was there to stop him from doing the same thing for Kanan, helping him learn the lesson he needed to from Kanan's sacrifice in order to be ready to make his own.
Yeah Dave is no JJ. He actually cares about story, not just flashy moments.
But he's pulled off some damn flashy moments too.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Stengah.
And I agree with you and Stele about Filoni's good intentions. As I said, I really liked much of the way that he extended the Star Wars universe and its range of possibilities. for example, the Jedi temples.
I also agree with you that, "logically", you would expect other groups to have discovered and harnessed the Force. However, because they are absent from the core - the spine - of Star Wars, the feature films, I'd argue that they do come as a big surprise to the viewer.
And it raises an obvious question, why isn't the Galaxy teaming with these groups/individuals?
On the 'world between worlds', I wonder whether a plot device that gives characters access to all of time and space is the very definition of "shenanigans". In Rebels, Ashoka dissuades Ezra from attempting to save Kanan using two linked arguments. One, I thought, was implicit; that Kanan's sacrifice was important and should be respected. But the other was explicit; the 'grandfather paradox' was at work, and saving Kanan would instantly kill everyone else.
Nonetheless, I'm intrigued to see where this goes, because
it is not clear if/how/why long-dead Anakin Skywalker is able to use the world-between-worlds in this way to save Ashoka from what would otherwise have been certain death. I say "if", because it's not clear if it actually is Anakin.
This raises interesting questions about
the extent of the powers, and ongoing influence of, dead/ascended Jedi/Force users. Can they all do this? Or is it only the most powerful? If so, how many of them are quietly or loudly intervening from 'backstage'?
Is this what Obi-Wan meant in 'A New Hope' when he warned Vader about the consequence of him (Vader) striking Obi-Wan down.?
My take on why there aren't non-Jedi force users all over the place is that the Republic and the Jedi have been running most of the galaxy for thousands and thousands of years. The Jedi actively seek out force-sensitive children as young as possible and the Republic's general culture encourages parent to willingly give up their children to them. (Sidenote: They've never really gone into what happens when a parent doesn't agree, but I imagine they respected their wishes rather than forcibly take the children, so they just never learn how to actively connect to the Force) This galaxy wide recruitment means that groups of non Jedi force weilders are still uncommon, and those that do form likely keep themselves apart from the rest of the galaxy as best as they can, lest they draw the attention of the Jedi Order who might brand them as Sith if their use of the force was a bit more gray than the Order was comfortable with.
Going to the core movies, there's even more reason for non-Jedi Force wielder groups to hide their presence from the galaxy at large, since they take place while the Empire is in power, and Vader was actively hunting and killing any force weilders he could find.
As for what Anakin being in the World Between Worlds means, it's better to just wait for the next episode than speculate, as there's too many possibilities. I'm guessing that the World Between Worlds is going to be heavily tied to how force ghosts work though.
It's worth nothing that the World Between Worlds didn't actually allow Ezra to change the past. In the Rebels episode where Ashoka fought Vader, Ashoka was shown even then to have survived the fight. Even though we didn't see how she survived it or the temple exploding, we saw her walk further into the cave at the very end of the episode, after the temple had already exploded. Kanan and Ezra obviously couldn't see that, but they saw the explosion and since she didn't contact them afterwards, they mistakenly believed she was dead. It wasn't until the episode where Ezra was in the World Between Worlds that we saw exactly how she had survived both Vader and the explosion. She survived them *because* Ezra pulled her out of the moment she "would have" died in, and she returned to the temple at a point in time shortly after the explosion. So she never actually died there, and Ezra didn't change the past by pulling her out of that moment, he was actually completing a closed time-travel loop. Ashoka knew she was supposed to be dead for that time, sonshe stayed in seclusion, hiding herself from everyone until after the episode where Ezra entered the WBW and she could finally let people know she was still alive. So we're probably safe from the kind of branching timeline causing kind of non-linear time-travel shenanigans where characters try to undo things they didn't want to have happen, but we might see more closed-loop, linear time-travel shenanigans.
RE force ghosts, pretty sure that Yoda taught Qui Gon? Been a while since I watched the prequels but Qui Gon definitely taught Obi Wan. So then I presume he taught Anakin? And either Obi Wan or Yoda could have taught Luke.
Those are the only ones we've seen with the ability on screen, part of that same master-padawan chain
RE force ghosts, pretty sure that Yoda taught Qui Gon? Been a while since I watched the prequels but Qui Gon definitely taught Obi Wan. So then I presume he taught Anakin? And either Obi Wan or Yoda could have taught Luke.
Those are the only ones we've seen with the ability on screen, part of that same master-padawan chain
Absurdly, having recently watched the place where this canon was established in Clone Wars while listening to A More Civilized Age, I guess it was Qui Gon who discovered the ancient/secret/lost technique, and then as Order 66 is approaching he appears and communicates to Yoda where to find the whateverthehell it is on a planet somewhere where he learns it, and then he also suggests that Obi Wan might want to look into it too or something.
I dunno, it was a whole bunch of needless retconning to explain why only a few people could do it (and it sort of neglected to explain how Anakin managed to become a force ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi).
Yeah maybe in George's original plan all Jedi could do it but not Sith. And so that was part of RotJ, Anakin turning back to Jedi at the end.
But once you do prequels, why isn't everyone showing up for help or training in ep 3? So they tried to make it a "some Jedi can do this" thing instead
I don't like the choice Sabine made.
I can't understand or forgive someone who risks millions for their personal comfort. Really I know being without Ezra is painful for her but pain exists. Someday Ezra will die - old age, slipping in the shower, etc. Risking bringing back Thrawn just so she can feel better is a deeply flawed choice.
I don't like the choice Sabine made.
Spoiler:I can't understand or forgive someone who risks millions for their personal comfort. Really I know being without Ezra is painful for her but pain exists. Someday Ezra will die - old age, slipping in the shower, etc. Risking bringing back Thrawn just so she can feel better is a deeply flawed choice.
*I know it's not exactly the same, but that's what came to mind when she made the decision. But unlike Steve, she made it from a position of doubt, not strength.
I just watched episode 4. I would have made the same choice as Sabine.
I'm not sold on Thrawn inherently being that big a threat. Yeah, he might be good for Imperial propaganda as a symbol to rally around, but you know what a good counter to that is? The return of the Jedi who beat him last time.
And she didn't concede the whole fight. She was outmatched and alone, and managed to play that hand into getting the enemy to bring her one step closer to her own goal. There will be more opportunities to stop them once the situation changes.
I don't like the choice Sabine made.
Spoiler:I can't understand or forgive someone who risks millions for their personal comfort. Really I know being without Ezra is painful for her but pain exists. Someday Ezra will die - old age, slipping in the shower, etc. Risking bringing back Thrawn just so she can feel better is a deeply flawed choice.
She also disrespected Ezra’s sacrifice so she’s got a lot of work to do to get back in everyone’s good graces.
I get her choice. It was either "die immediately after destroying the map" or "hand the map over and be taken to Ezra, who has already beaten Thrawn before and might be able to do so again."
I don't really disagree with it, but it is an increbily risky gamble shes making. And of course she couldn't choose differently for plot reasons.
Yeah, I finished Rebels this morning and it's very in character for Sabine, or anyone from that show really, to make a bad deal to get one step closer to their goal.
While I don't think it's necessary to have watched Rebels I do think Ahsoka does hang together a bit better with the context from that show.
And this is why Sabine should not have had the Dark Saber and be the Queen of Mandalore. She doesn't make good deals.
Spoiler:And this is why Sabine should not have had the Dark Saber and be the Queen of Mandalore. She doesn't make good deals.
i mean, she didn't think she should have it either, though it was because she didn't want the responsibility, not because she thought she made bad decisions.
Good episode.
Ashoka the White as predicted by many,
Yeah enjoyed the episode also.
Loved the episode. Loved it from beginning to end.
Pretty great. I still thought World Between Worlds could have used some exposition. Or even an acknowledgement by Ahsoka of being there before.
Like I'm not sure my wife knew WTF was going on, having not watched Rebels.
But that nitpick aside, pretty cool.
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