Salt and Sanctuary Catch-All

Tyrian wrote:

Stuck on the alchemist boss at the moment. He just doesn't seem to take much dmg from my attacks, and his magic and poison are just a major pain! Feel like I've missed an obvious mechanic.

What kind of character do you have? Is that your second or third boss fight? Did you upgrade your weapon a couple times at the blacksmith already?

Dyni wrote:
Tyrian wrote:

Stuck on the alchemist boss at the moment. He just doesn't seem to take much dmg from my attacks, and his magic and poison are just a major pain! Feel like I've missed an obvious mechanic.

What kind of character do you have? Is that your second or third boss fight? Did you upgrade your weapon a couple times at the blacksmith already?

knight class (2H sword)
3rd boss, level 25 (because I was grinding some earlier spots) ... though I accidentally spent a bunch in willpower
weapons and most armor upgraded to II
2-handing weapon
several rings equipped

I went and watched a few YT videos taking him on, and they just never seem to get the same number of attacks I do towards the end. Or they aren't taking as much dmg (maybe my poison def is too low).

Realistically, I assume I'm not playing cautious enough. I've gotten him to under 25% a few times, but end up with too many slimes or scythe producers on the field and just die.

I had some trouble with him too and was only able to do it during an episode where I was able to stand on the platform above him and use a spear to thrust downward (jump/strong attack) repeatedly. It seems he struggles to adapt when you're directly above his head.
I don't think he's the best designed boss in the game. His random slime spawns can be a bit much considering the magnetism and frequency of their jumps are just insane. If he does it a few times in a row the whole bottom section of the arena can become unusable. (TIP: you can mash square to get the slimes off faster) For that reason if he starts throwing lots of slimes I found it best stick on the upper platforms where the slimes don't seem to jump to and play a defensive game.

Finished this last night. Even with a lot of highly anticipated games on the horizon this year, I have a hard time believing that I won't consider this one of the 2 or 3 best games of 2016 when I look back at the end of the year. It's supremely fantastic and consistently great throughout.

A few random thoughts
- I thought the boss fights were universally fantastic. I've seen a lot of criticism in discussions online claiming that the boss designs were cheap or unfair and I couldn't disagree more. Every boss had well designed patterns and weaknesses to specific types of damages that, once learned, made them very manageable. Yes, many of them were very difficult, there were 3 in particular that took me 15-20 tries each, but I never found that frustrating because I was constantly learning with each try, I felt progress, and when I finally took those 3 down those were some of the best moments in gaming I've had... ever.

- I loved the metroidvania elements. To me, those were the spin that made this game something more than 2d Dark Souls knock off. That being said I would have liked to see a few more abilities added over the course of the game, specifically around traversal.
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Tyrian wrote:

I went and watched a few YT videos taking him on, and they just never seem to get the same number of attacks I do towards the end. Or they aren't taking as much dmg (maybe my poison def is too low).

Realistically, I assume I'm not playing cautious enough. I've gotten him to under 25% a few times, but end up with too many slimes or scythe producers on the field and just die.

If you're having too much trouble, poison your own weapon. It's very overpowered (at least early in the game). I was just mucking about with the poison stuff on a different boss and he went down so fast I felt a bit cheated.

sithcundman wrote:
Tyrian wrote:

I went and watched a few YT videos taking him on, and they just never seem to get the same number of attacks I do towards the end. Or they aren't taking as much dmg (maybe my poison def is too low).

Realistically, I assume I'm not playing cautious enough. I've gotten him to under 25% a few times, but end up with too many slimes or scythe producers on the field and just die.

If you're having too much trouble, poison your own weapon. It's very overpowered (at least early in the game). I was just mucking about with the poison stuff on a different boss and he went down so fast I felt a bit cheated.

Yeah, I was playing around with that a bit, but never in a serious attempt. I'll give it another 20 tries tonight.

imbiginjapan wrote:

I had some trouble with him too and was only able to do it during an episode where I was able to stand on the platform above him and use a spear to thrust downward (jump/strong attack) repeatedly. It seems he struggles to adapt when you're directly above his head.
I don't think he's the best designed boss in the game. His random slime spawns can be a bit much considering the magnetism and frequency of their jumps are just insane. If he does it a few times in a row the whole bottom section of the arena can become unusable. (TIP: you can mash square to get the slimes off faster) For that reason if he starts throwing lots of slimes I found it best stick on the upper platforms where the slimes don't seem to jump to and play a defensive game.

I had a few attempts where I did that, and he'd endlessly throw fireballs or lightning at me. Not much room to run there. I'd inevitably roll into a slime. Poooooisssonnnnnn! Is just a weird wall to have hit. I had one-shot the other bosses to that point, so I was pulled up short when this one was seemingly more difficult.

Bonus to having watched some of those Let's Play videos... I saw a whip in action, and it made me think Castlevania!

I *think* tonight I FINALLY have a moment to purchase and get into this game.

Current mood: Leaning mage.

So, considering I'm starting up probably tonight... Anyone have any tips? Strategies? Things to watch for that aren't immediately obvious?

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I *think* tonight I FINALLY have a moment to purchase and get into this game.

Current mood: Leaning mage.

So, considering I'm starting up probably tonight... Anyone have any tips? Strategies? Things to watch for that aren't immediately obvious?

Mage is definitely the easiest way to go so I definitely recommend it as a starting class. Once you wrap your head around everything you can go back and try something more difficult if you want.

Tyrian wrote:

Realistically, I assume I'm not playing cautious enough. I've gotten him to under 25% a few times, but end up with too many slimes or scythe producers on the field and just die.

I was also running with a 2h when I beat him. IIRC, I was pretty aggressive on my successful attempt. I prioritized taking out the slimes and then made sure to get attacks in whenever he started casting the lightning or slime spells. I would stagger him out of the cast animation half the time and get in some good damage. Make sure you save your weapon buff for under 50% hp point if you can too.

cls33 wrote:

Finished this last night. Even with a lot of highly anticipated games on the horizon this year, I have a hard time believing that I won't consider this one of the 2 or 3 best games of 2016 when I look back at the end of the year. It's supremely fantastic and consistently great throughout.

Great to hear I'm level 58 now, but I haven't been able to play for a few days. I hope to get back to it tonight.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

So, considering I'm starting up probably tonight... Anyone have any tips? Strategies? Things to watch for that aren't immediately obvious?

  • Some weapons have combos that only work when you're under certain encumbrance levels. I was surprised to figure that one out. I think it was a dagger weapon. I couldn't use one of its combos if I was over 50%.
  • Miracles seem extremely useful in this game. I already have more great spells than I can use at one time. Magic of any kind will serve you well if you choose to go that route.
  • Don't agonize too much over skill point choices. You'll get some items that will let you respec single points as you progress.
  • Parrying is not essential, but very strong. You can even parry while using a giant 2h.

2h weapons also look stupid fun.

Perhaps I'll start Mage and then build up Strength and alternate between magic and greatswords...

Man, I really love the part of a game where I don't have it but am planning for it.

There is a greatsword that scale off magic. Though like Dark Souls you won't be able to two hand a sword and cast magic.

Dyni wrote:
Tyrian wrote:

Realistically, I assume I'm not playing cautious enough. I've gotten him to under 25% a few times, but end up with too many slimes or scythe producers on the field and just die.

I was also running with a 2h when I beat him. IIRC, I was pretty aggressive on my successful attempt. I prioritized taking out the slimes and then made sure to get attacks in whenever he started casting the lightning or slime spells. I would stagger him out of the cast animation half the time and get in some good damage. Make sure you save your weapon buff for under 50% hp point if you can too.

Yeah, so it only took 2 tries tonight. Typical *souls scenario of just not clicking with the pattern I needed. I also got him to face outward on the upper right platform, and so he'd throw the slimes off screen. Helpful!

Seems like I've found a decent farming area in the next segment, so i might grind here for a bit (enemies worth ~132+, not hard to kill, etc).

This game really is derivative as all get up, but the 2D angle does help make it feel different than Bloodborne. I got about two solid hours in and had a blast playing with it last night!

I rolled up a mage, but I struggled a bit swapping between weapon and wand, so I rolled up a knight. That worked better for me, and I took out the first boss as soon as I realized that Heavy Armour just isn't my style and rolling is way more effective in lighter gear. I explored in a bunch of directions and I found a really badass 2H sword. Basically I'm running around in Rogue armor with a massive greatsword and I think the basics are starting to click. Might try and build a little magic if I can find a wand or staff.

I'm still a little lost on the faiths. I imagine they have some game difference but I can't quite parse out what, exactly. I went with the Three for the Mage character and the Iron Ones on the knight. It seems like I had no trouble praying at shrines of different faiths that I've found. Anyone have more info?

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I'm still a little lost on the faiths. I imagine they have some game difference but I can't quite parse out what, exactly. I went with the Three for the Mage character and the Iron Ones on the knight. It seems like I had no trouble praying at shrines of different faiths that I've found. Anyone have more info?

There are only a few differences. The effect of healing and stamina restoration items vary slightly between faiths. Merchants of different faiths appear to sell different items. You can't offer stone idols at foreign shrines, which means fewer buffs and NPCs are available. When you gain items after increasing devotion by turning in a task at a leader, you do not get those bonus items when resting at a foreign shrine.

imbiginjapan wrote:
TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I'm still a little lost on the faiths. I imagine they have some game difference but I can't quite parse out what, exactly. I went with the Three for the Mage character and the Iron Ones on the knight. It seems like I had no trouble praying at shrines of different faiths that I've found. Anyone have more info?

There are only a few differences. The effect of healing and stamina restoration items vary slightly between faiths. Merchants of different faiths appear to sell different items. You can't offer stone idols at foreign shrines, which means fewer buffs and NPCs are available. When you gain items after increasing devotion by turning in a task at a leader, you do not get those bonus items when resting at a foreign shrine.

You can also desecrate shrines of other religions and make them your own with a certain item, but doing so will build sin and incite possible NPC aggression until you have your sins forgiven by a specific NPC. The benefits for converting a shrine to your own religion are listed by imbiginjapan above.

TBH if you're well stocked with calling horns the only thing that really matters are the area buffs. Otherwise you can just jump between friendly shrines where you've placed guides back to wherever you need to go. It's weird that they let you jump from a friendly shrine to a foreign one with a guide because they basically mooted a big decision point (where to place idols) with that mechanic. I have a hunch that the teleport system was more limiting at some point and was changed, because the limitations can be entirely circumvented.

imbiginjapan wrote:

TBH if you're well stocked with calling horns the only thing that really matters are the area buffs. Otherwise you can just jump between friendly shrines where you've placed guides back to wherever you need to go. It's weird that they let you jump from a friendly shrine to a foreign one with a guide because they basically mooted a big decision point (where to place idols) with that mechanic. I have a hunch that the teleport system was more limiting at some point and was changed, because the limitations can be entirely circumvented.

I noticed that I lost the extra consumable items I got for trading to the leader of my shrine when I traveled to shrines of other religions. That's drops me from 5 to 2 energy potions, so my magic capabilities are much more limited when I'm not resting at Devara's shrines.

Ah, that must explain why I lose my "hearty rolls" at every shrine I've been to aside from the hidden one near the first boss and the original.

I've been spending all day wishing I was at home playing this. That feeling is a damn good sign.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

Ah, that must explain why I lose my "hearty rolls" at every shrine I've been to aside from the hidden one near the first boss and the original.

I've been spending all day wishing I was at home playing this. That feeling is a damn good sign.

There are many unclaimed shrines deeper into the game. Worrying about allegiance becomes not so much of an issue after a while.

So, one plot question... Regarding the scarecrow I came across...

Spoiler:

...In the Village of Smiles. He asked me to kneel, and I said "No" and then he said some creepy stuff. DId anyone answer 'yes'? What happened when you did?

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

So, one plot question... Regarding the scarecrow I came across...

Spoiler:

...In the Village of Smiles. He asked me to kneel, and I said "No" and then he said some creepy stuff. DId anyone answer 'yes'? What happened when you did?

I now want to try, as I'm curious about this as well.

Did you make the same choice I did the first time you encountered it?

EDIT - Took out the second boss this morning. I think I'm roughly level 15 now. I've mostly B-lined up the sword branch of the tree, just got Class 3 availability. I feel like I could use more stamina and I'm debating about going down the Heavy armor road or sticking with light... Lots of great decisions so far.

Spoiler:

Though I'm getting some "fashionborne" instinct with armor and thinking I should cease wearing the stupid pumpkin head, even though it is better in every conceivbable way to the rogue's mask I've been rolling (quite literally) with.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

thinking I should cease wearing the stupid pumpkin head, even though it is better in every conceivbable way to the rogue's mask I've been rolling (quite literally) with.

The eternal struggle

I also made the same choice with the scarecrow, so I'm not sure if going the other way would do anything different.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

thinking I should cease wearing the stupid pumpkin head, even though it is better in every conceivbable way to the rogue's mask I've been rolling (quite literally) with.

I'm doing the same thing I do in Souls, which is gear up for boss fights and wear whatever during exploration. In Souls/Bloodborne I often go without headgear until I need to fight a boss.

imbiginjapan wrote:
TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

thinking I should cease wearing the stupid pumpkin head, even though it is better in every conceivbable way to the rogue's mask I've been rolling (quite literally) with.

I'm doing the same thing I do in Souls, which is gear up for boss fights and wear whatever during exploration. In Souls/Bloodborne I often go without headgear until I need to fight a boss.

This is actually what I do IRL! Crazy!

Got to coop this last night with a friend - holy smokes is it fun. I really hope they manage to make remote play work.

My wife saw it for the first time and said the graphics reminded her of Child of Light.

I'm four bosses in now. Debating switching to leather for the better balance. By the by, anyone know what the balance stat does?

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

I'm four bosses in now. Debating switching to leather for the better balance. By the by, anyone know what the balance stat does?

Stagger resistance

I blew through what felt like a lot of bosses in one sitting yesterday. Felt like I had stumbled on an overpowered build or something. Knocked off Queen of Smiles, Mad Alchemist, Kraeken Giant guy (sunken keep), and False Jester in about two hours. Build is based mostly on pike skills and the haymaker weapon.

Edit: forgot to mention the reusable item that electrifies my attacks. For being part of the iron men and building some thing.

I hit all of those in rapid succession (save that last one.) doing a full on Great Sword build right now. I think I might have over leveled / upgraded my gear, as I was hitting hard.

That Mad Alchemist lightning attack legit one shot me though!