GWJ Conference Call Episode 491

Stardew Valley, Grim Fandengo Remaster, SUPERHOT, XCOM 2, Far Cry: Primal, VR Pre-Orders, Lonliness, Social Anxiety and Where Games Fall In, Your Email and More!

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This week Allen, Julian and Shawn talk about feeling lonliness, anxiety and where games fall in.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.

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Comments

Thanks for the carrier idea! We have an Ergo 360, and I don't know why I didn't even think of that! I will give it a shot

00:01:51 Far Cry Primal
00:10:43 Stardew Valley
00:17:24 XCOM 2
00:23:52 SUPERHOT
00:24:33 Virtual Reality Headsets
00:29:43 Broforce
00:32:15 Grim Fandango Remastered
00:35:05 Feeling Lonely in Games
00:54:34 Your Emails

Stardew Valley, while good, is a shameless clone of Harvest Moon.

Last Harvest Moon I played was on a PS2, but I played it a lot, and Stardew Valley is essentially the same game, mechanically. I'm hard pressed to think of a single thing I've found yet in Stardew Valley that isn't a direct analog of something in Harvest Moon.

That all said, it is delightfully charming, and the 27 hours I've logged in the 3 weeks since it released are a testament to it's charms. It's also provided a wonderful counterpoint to the grimdarkness of XCOM 2.

Honestly, I'm amazed at how much I've fallen for it given that I've played this same darn game 15 years ago.

I would not exaggerate to say that the biggest surprise game of the Super Nintendo for me growing up was Harvest Moon. It was a mild curiosity that became a surprising and incredible experience for me. So Stardew Valley is one of the biggest temptations I've ever run into.

Thank God it's not on 3DS or I'd be doomed.

(Edited to link this feature on Gamasutra with the creator, for those not following the Catch-All thread)

In regards to the topic: I find it increasingly fascinating how video games are more and more becoming a comfortable isolation for me. Perhaps it's more because they aren't something I resort to while I'm bored. I'm technically never bored these days. I don't have time to be bored (unless I'm at work but that's a whole different story). So if I am half-an-hour into a single player game and I get a message asking me to play Destiny, I hit a conundrum. Tonight is my single player night! I have plans to make progress in this eight hour game that's been taking me two weeks! But if I tell this friend that I haven't gamed or spoken with in five weeks no, does that make me a sh*tty friend?

This has been especially rough with my roommate lately. He and I got Final Fantasy Explorers, and were it up to him we'd be playing it every night. However, I'm much more interested in completing Gravity Rush, Fire Emblem Fates and playing through Twilight Princess HD. So some nights I'll say "sorry man, I can't", and then other nights I sacrifice my solo game time and play with him. I much more prefer my "Thursday night is social gaming night" that I put together with friends in Destiny, which also doubles as my ability to chat with and keep connected from a buddy of mine from Jersey. But even this goes in phases, as everyone's schedules shift and become inconsistent.

So gaming itself is never a time where I feel lonely. When I feel lonely is when I'm not playing these games and want to talk to someone about them. There aren't a lot of folks I can do deep dives with, and sometimes I'll consider writing my thoughts down on the forums only to think I should save it for my blog. And then sometimes I'll post in a thread, come back a few days later with even more to say, but either no one has replied since or what few responses remain seem disinterested.

That's when I feel lonely in relation to games.

Videogames sure do have loneliness going for them in a lot of ways, but my suggestion that jumped out at me as soon as you hit the main topic, if you want a cure to the lonlinesss, there is no better solution than boardgames.

Also proud that a three guy podcast managed to talk eloquently about feelings. Go you three.

Honestly I'm only here because I'm waiting for The Division to download. *dum dee dum*

I would also classify myself as an introvert. I don't dislike people, but I cherish my alone time. I work with people all day, have two dogs, three cats, two babies, and a wife. I love them all dearly but also turn to games like Skyrim and the Long Dark to be alone.

Just a quick FYI: the "RPG thing" you're doing is called an "actual play."

Emoryy wrote:

Thanks for the carrier idea! We have an Ergo 360, and I don't know why I didn't even think of that! I will give it a shot :D

I played a lot of Skyrim wearing a Baby Bjorn, or pushing a baby rocker with my foot.

I'm closer to Pyroman on this one. I don't really get lonely. Not anymore, anyway. I got lonely once. It prompted me to find my wife. Problem solved.

I was greatly amused by the comments that a person can't be "half-in" a cocktail party, which is to say one can't be at a party and not talk. It's funny because you guys basically said it was impossible for me to do what I've, more or less, done at every social occasion I've ever been to. Every time I get roped into doing some off-campus social thing with coworkers, like a team lunch or dinner for example, I usually end up sitting in the middle of a group of people while I try to figure out which side-conversation is the one I want to listen to and think about the book I'd rather be reading right now.

I can be gregarious and talkative, to some extent, but it takes a lot of effort unless it's a mutual interest that I can really geek out on with the person.

Anyway, interesting show as usual.

In response to the Jonathon Blow talk, Eurogamer had this interview with Adam Orth, who began work on the game Adrift after resigning from Microsoft after the whole "always on" "why would I want to live there?" fiasco.

While I hadn't played Braid, Blow's behavior online gave me a rather foul taste of him. Oddly enough, it was Indie Game: The Movie that changed my perspective of him. "Oh, he's just wired differently" was essentially my response, and while that could mean just about anything, getting to hear him speak and listen to the manner in which he speaks and the tone that he uses, it all conveyed to him what I would never have gotten with raw text. I could now empathize with him.

On the other hand, that film also turned Phil Fish into a bit of a smacked ass in my mind. There are some things I can sympathize with him on, but I basically have little interest in anything he has to say. But, doesn't mean I won't some day play Fez, though, or something else he releases. Also: doesn't mean he really is a smacked ass. I don't know him, after all.

Shout outs to Certis and Rabbit for talking about SkyKid! I didn't think anyone else remembered that game. It was one of my favorites of the NES era.

ccesarano wrote:

In regards to the topic: I find it increasingly fascinating how video games are more and more becoming a comfortable isolation for me.

This is me as well lately. Before I had a child and had a lot more free time, as well as jobs that kept me more socially isolated, I would turn to games (and other things) to try and help the loneliness. Games never really worked well for me there though. Now that I have no time I treasure that time alone where I can actually play a game. "Comfortable isolation" is the perfect description for what I usually go for, even when I'm playing a multiplayer game.

gravity wrote:

"Comfortable isolation" is the perfect description for what I usually go for, even when I'm playing a multiplayer game.

How about this? One of my favorite Zevon songs.

I always considered myself an introvert, and still prefer single-player games over multi-player (except for GWJ Rocket League).

That said, I did have a small group of like-minded friends in HS, and met my wife in college. Being married and have 3 kids does teach you to appreciate your alone time, though.

Really enjoyed the show this week. I don't have game friends lists that overflow and never play with people online. I don't interact with people much in general, but do feel lonely sometimes. lately really noticed how lonely I've been feeling. Just wanted to drop a line to say how much I enjoy your show and look forward to watching the new feed. thanks so much!

Backing up Certis' comments in reply to the listener email on guilt from gaming with a newborn.

It is VITAL that you take the time to enjoy your hobbies unrelated to your child and parenting when you can provided you still enjoy them (you may find your tastes change though, I did). If you want to game you should feel no guilt in this. Your happiness is very important, an unhappy parent is a less effective parent. Same goes for your relationship with your partner. Don't feel guilty taking time for just the two of you if you feel you need it.
I think you should explore where the guilt is coming from. If you just force yourself to game and still feel guilty it defeats the purpose if you're not enjoying it. If comments like these and Certis' don't help eliminate that unwarranted feeling of guilt then I say dig deeper. Those kind of feelings shouldn't be ignored and something else may be going on.
Not sure I agree with the forward facing baby carrier with video games in general, particularly violent/heavy games, even despite the early age and vision not being at all clear at that stage. I don't have evidence to support this view, but a sling or carrier setup where the screen isn't the main focus would be my recommendation. Enjoying things together like gaming seems cool, I just don't like the idea of them having the screen filling most of their field of view.
I've found some style of games are far more conducive to fun experiences in the newborn phase. Particularly turn based games, mobile games or anything you can pause without impacting on the flow. I would imagine your experience with Firewatch would have been suboptimal due to rushing through as you said and pausing emotionally resonant games at inopportune moments can also have an impact on your experience.

Congrats on becoming a new parent and enjoy things! Not just being a parent!

troubleshot wrote:

I think you should explore where the guilt is coming from. If you just force yourself to game and still feel guilty it defeats the purpose if you're not enjoying it. If comments like these and Certis' don't help eliminate that unwarranted feeling of guilt then I say dig deeper. Those kind of feelings shouldn't be ignored and something else may be going on.

Yeah, not to throw shade on Emoryy's husband—of course I don't know anything about them—but I admit I groaned inwardly when she said she felt guilty playing games, but he had no problem playing Blops 3.

troubleshot wrote:

Not sure I agree with the forward facing baby carrier with video games in general, particularly violent/heavy games, even despite the early age and vision not being at all clear at that stage. I don't have evidence to support this view, but a sling or carrier setup where the screen isn't the main focus would be my recommendation. Enjoying things together like gaming seems cool, I just don't like the idea of them having the screen filling most of their field of view.

I think the screen filling most of their view, and perhaps harming their developing eyesight if that is the root of your concern, is primarily an issue if you're playing at a PC or something similar. If you're playing from the couch, then the forward-facing should be no problem and theoretically give them more to look at (depending on the age of the baby, as I believe it takes a while before they can see more than a few feet in front of them). But, I imagine there are emotional benefits and detriments to both approaches as well (baby facing mom or pop allows them to be assured of a parents' presence, but can encourage too much attachment that will become a pain later on (guess work, I'm not a child pyschologist)).

ccesarano wrote:
troubleshot wrote:

Not sure I agree with the forward facing baby carrier with video games in general, particularly violent/heavy games, even despite the early age and vision not being at all clear at that stage. I don't have evidence to support this view, but a sling or carrier setup where the screen isn't the main focus would be my recommendation. Enjoying things together like gaming seems cool, I just don't like the idea of them having the screen filling most of their field of view.

I think the screen filling most of their view, and perhaps harming their developing eyesight if that is the root of your concern, is primarily an issue if you're playing at a PC or something similar. If you're playing from the couch, then the forward-facing should be no problem and theoretically give them more to look at (depending on the age of the baby, as I believe it takes a while before they can see more than a few feet in front of them). But, I imagine there are emotional benefits and detriments to both approaches as well (baby facing mom or pop allows them to be assured of a parents' presence, but can encourage too much attachment that will become a pain later on (guess work, I'm not a child pyschologist)).

Eh, when mine were sub 8 months (because after that they sure as hell were not sitting still), I made sure to face them away from the tv, usually facing me. Not that we managed to keep the video stimulation away for too long, but we made sure it was always balanced which for us has been the key.

wendellmn wrote:

Really enjoyed the show this week. I don't have game friends lists that overflow and never play with people online. I don't interact with people much in general, but do feel lonely sometimes. lately really noticed how lonely I've been feeling. Just wanted to drop a line to say how much I enjoy your show and look forward to watching the new feed. thanks so much!

This sentiment totally resonates with me. Good on you wendellmn, I too put a lot of importance in podcasts such as the GWJ CC in helping me feel connected.

Distance from screen is definitely a concern, but equally for audio and visual content. Even if you cant see in full colour or clearly, the nature of the images can still come across. Even looking at a muted colour, blurred version. Flashing, fast cut, burst sounds convey panic, violence among other things. Small exposure is probably of no concern, but extended, 10, 20, 30 minute stints of it is an idea that irks me.

I'm not a scientist, doctor or psychologist. The closest I get is being married to a Psychiatrist and she tells me my ideas on things are dumb and inaccurate all the time (plenty of you will probably agree). But something about it still sits wrong with me. Even babies of days old are sponges. I'm vary wary of what they might absorb, without being an alarmist or seeming judgey.
I'm just putting it out there to consider, its something I have and will continue to avoid as a parent. For a yard stick, my wife and I are firmly of the opinion that more than an hour of screen time a day is a problem, though we sometimes struggle to stick to it. Anecdotally, we definitely see a very different child when she gets more than that, who gets very cranky and tantrumy. Bed time is usually quite an ordeal, which is unsual for her.

I really enjoyed this week's show, particularly the section about gaming and loneliness. My job has me working alone for the most part all day every day and I've found I use podcasts in the same ways as mentioned to stave off that loneliness. I'm surprised Twitch wasn't mentioned at all in the context of this as that has recently taken over the task of "AM Radio" for me in my studio, its also an interesting area that dovetails into the conversation about communal movie watching in VR. I'm not sure what it is about watching people play games in real time that I find comforting and relaxing but often I find I'd much rather do that than play the game myself.

gravity wrote:

Shout outs to Certis and Rabbit for talking about SkyKid! I didn't think anyone else remembered that game. It was one of my favorites of the NES era.

http://www.playretrogames.com/1875-s...

rabbit wrote:
gravity wrote:

Shout outs to Certis and Rabbit for talking about SkyKid! I didn't think anyone else remembered that game. It was one of my favorites of the NES era.

http://www.playretrogames.com/1875-s...

Awesome! It's been years, but all the goofy touches they put in came right back when I saw them.

Sitting at the very western edge of a lonely continent (Perth in Western Australia) in summer can be a lonely experience. With a 3 hour time change to most of the rest of Australia, and having to wait for my children have gone to bed before I can begin gaming I can often look at the ever dwindling numbers in games like Rising Storm or Rocket League attempt to look through those playing and find no matches. Widening search to include all regions and all skill levels all too often fails to find any games anywhere that I could join in, joining a BF4 game of 3 on the server isn't quite as much fun as when 10 times that are playing, if I can find that many. Summer is often a single player game time, because its often all I can find.

Sitting at the very western edge of a lonely continent (Perth in Western Australia) in summer can be a lonely experience. With a 3 hour time change to most of the rest of Australia, and having to wait for my children have gone to bed before I can begin gaming I can often look at the ever dwindling numbers in games like Rising Storm or Rocket League attempt to look through those playing and find no matches. Widening search to include all regions and all skill levels all too often fails to find any games anywhere that I could join in, joining a BF4 game of 3 on the server isn't quite as much fun as when 10 times that are playing, if I can find that many. Summer is often a single player game time, because its often all I can find.

I have to admit, I marvel at the idea of someone with small children having *any* time for gaming.

I had a fairly challenging first child (he finally slept through the night for the first time at age 5) as he couldn't really be awake and stationary for the first 2-3 years of life.

Since I was fortunate enough to have a few weeks of paternity leave when my child was born, I knew that my day job was *infinitely* easier than taking care of my child. After all, I could go to the bathroom, sit down for more than 30 seconds, talk with adults, etc.

Thus it was my responsibility to not be too late from work (every minute counted in those early years) and have enough energy to entertain the little one for a few hours as soon as I got home so that my wife got a sanity break. By the time housework was done and baby was put to bed, it was time to catch some sleep before he woke up.

I can understand the stay-at-home parent doing a little gaming to stay sane (my wife use GEnie), but if you're working, that *is* your sanity time. If you've got strength to spare, it should be probably be spent relieving the person who's doing the *real* work, the stay-at-home parent.

However, old training dies hard. It was also my wife who felt guilty for actually needing few minutes each day that weren't directly connected to the baby.

Of course, a few years later, things got easier. I resumed my weekly board gaming once my youngest was in his teens, and obviously nowadays I have time for an hour or two spent mostly on message boards.

But gaming in the first few years? People have my envy...

west wrote:

I have to admit, I marvel at the idea of someone with small children having *any* time for gaming.

I had a fairly challenging first child (he finally slept through the night for the first time at age 5) as he couldn't really be awake and stationary for the first 2-3 years of life.

Since I was fortunate enough to have a few weeks of paternity leave when my child was born, I knew that my day job was *infinitely* easier than taking care of my child. After all, I could go to the bathroom, sit down for more than 30 seconds, talk with adults, etc.

Thus it was my responsibility to not be too late from work (every minute counted in those early years) and have enough energy to entertain the little one for a few hours as soon as I got home so that my wife got a sanity break. By the time housework was done and baby was put to bed, it was time to catch some sleep before he woke up.

I can understand the stay-at-home parent doing a little gaming to stay sane (my wife use GEnie), but if you're working, that *is* your sanity time. If you've got strength to spare, it should be probably be spent relieving the person who's doing the *real* work, the stay-at-home parent.

However, old training dies hard. It was also my wife who felt guilty for actually needing few minutes each day that weren't directly connected to the baby.

Of course, a few years later, things got easier. I resumed my weekly board gaming once my youngest was in his teens, and obviously nowadays I have time for an hour or two spent mostly on message boards.

But gaming in the first few years? People have my envy...

Eh, it's luck of the draw with how well your kids sleep and then just working it out with your partner.
Both of us worked, so we were always splitting the duties about 50/50 once she went back. Once the kid was down, finish up the chores and then I could still maybe get an hour or so of personal time. Some with the spouse, some without. As others have said, you need your own relaxation time just to be sane. Both of you.
One thing that was very workable was both kids would sleep in my arms/shoulder at times. Well one arm free means lots (and lots) of Civ5 time.

tangofool wrote:

Sitting at the very western edge of a lonely continent (Perth in Western Australia) in summer can be a lonely experience.

OOf. Yeah. I can imagine. Perth is OUT THERE. I visited once for a week, and it was gorgeous, but I can imagine it feeling very very isolated from the rest of the world.

At least you get great wine and great sunsets?

I'm going to parrot the praise of Far Cry Primal. I loved 3 and never touched 4, so the Far Cry Fatigue isn't hitting me. This game is just so much fun to explore and interact with. There's constantly something just a little different or new that keeps me going back for more.

My only other thought with the review is that it sounded kind of forced to keep saying African-American when describing the main character. He could have gone with just plain African. This is a game set at the dawn of humanity (as far as I know), which is largely accepted to have happened in Africa. Also, I never thought about it until Certis mentioned it, but even this game has an outsider coming into the situation and being the "chosen one". At least this time he's more of a long lost cousin than a complete stranger.

Skiptron wrote:

My only other thought with the review is that it sounded kind of forced to keep saying African-American when describing the main character. He could have gone with just plain African. This is a game set at the dawn of humanity (as far as I know), which is largely accepted to have happened in Africa.

Heh, I noticed that too. It reminded me of a sportscaster reporting an Olympic event in which an African athelete won the gold medal. The sportscaster said it was historic, because it was the first time an African-American from any country won the gold in that event.

I'm guessing that was me. I plead Stupid.