American Gods on Starz - Catch-All -"You're an a@#hole, dead wife!!

I listened to the 10 year anniversary audiobook during season 1. Very enjoyable, but some parts were long-winded. Funnily enough, one of those parts I thought slowed the book immensely was one of the better parts in the show (episode 7). I did find the recycling of actors odd (Essie is Laura and old Essie is Essie's granny).

I have mixed feelings overall for the show. I really need a second season to consolidate my opinion.

Well, in the case with Essie MacGowan, it was to show why Mad Sweeney has a weak spot for Laura, and why he gives her the coin back.

As for the grandmother, I assume it was just to show the cycle of life, of Essie growing up to be just like her grandmother, but now in a land that doesn't have time for magic and fairys.

It was my favorite episode of the season, and I rewatched it with my wife, who has moved on from the show because it just isn't her thing. But that was such a great stand alone story. It was probably the best of the introductions and worthy of getting its own episode.

"Anger gets sh$t done" Love this phrase so much as it crystallizes something I have always felt was true but struggled to express. Hatred and anger may be the ugly side of our humanity but in the right circumstances they can be the right tool for the situation.

PissedYeti wrote:

"Anger gets sh$t done" Love this phrase so much as it crystallizes something I have always felt was true but struggled to express. Hatred and anger may be the ugly side of our humanity but in the right circumstances they can be the right tool for the situation.

Yup... forum-name checks out

Wanted to add that I quite enjoyed the soundtrack this season. Being a fan of Garbage and Blondie probably has something to do with that. It's included in the basic Amazon Prime Music and it's on YouTube as well.

Jayhawker wrote:

Well, in the case with Essie MacGowan, it was to show why Mad Sweeney has a weak spot for Laura, and why he gives her the coin back.
...

They've been constantly at odds, punching each other, cursing each other, and now, all of a sudden, he has a weak spot for Laura. Nah, I can't go with that.

Jayhawker wrote:

Well, having read the book and knowing there was one episode left, I felt like they are on a pace for three seasons.

And I loved the last episode, stretching out Mad Sweeny's arrival in America over the entire episode, instead of just the opening bit they've been doing for the other Gods. Not sure he is worth the extra time, as a character, but that was an awesome story that pretty much stands on its own.

I haven't read the book, but I have a similar feeling because of the pacing. I appreciate the production team taking its time to tell the story as fully as possible, but there are some bits that feel distinctly flabby, filler-ish. this may prove to be too leisurely for me.

Between this and Legion, I feel TV's starting to go full psychedelic.

Looks like this show is having some problems. Sad. I really thought it was great. I hope they get this stuff figured out.

http://deadline.com/2018/01/american...

So, finally got around to watching this series and really enjoyed episode 1.

However, just started episode 2 and hit a major problem. Big ass hairy spider filling the screen. Guessing this must be Anansi. But, had to switch it off as my wife is seriously arachnophobic and let out a blood curdling scream at the sight of the spider.

If anyone who has seen the show can give me a heads up as to how much we actually see a big ass spider filling the screen, that would be great.

Thanks!

Not much spider at all. Even in the rest of episode 2. I want to say no spiders the rest of the way, but I could be wrong, since it has been a awhile since I watched it. But I think you guys are safe for the rest of this season.

That is awesome to hear. Thanks!

It's just really sad that the odds of us getting more seasons are slim to none.

ranalin wrote:

It's just really sad that the odds of us getting more seasons are slim to none.

Nope. Rejoice!

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...

itshappening.gif

But no Sigourney Weaver, so no Media. Unless they re-cast.

tanstaafl wrote:

But no Sigourney Weaver, so no Media. Unless they re-cast.

I think you mean Gilian Anderson, the most perfect woman alive. And sadly, she is not returning.

tanstaafl wrote:

But no Gillian Anderson, so no Media. Unless they re-cast.

FTFY

Doh!

I humbly turn in my geek card.

I want this now.

It sounds like S2 has had a very, very hard time in development. They booted out the S1 showrunners because Gaiman didn't like where they were going with the script, and that meant that both Gillian Anderson (Media) and Kristin Chenoweth (Ostara) left the show. Media can be replaced in-universe with no problem, since she can look like anything she wants, but Anderson was killing that role, and losing her is a grievous blow. And I have no idea how they even deal with losing Chenoweth right where they did. How on earth do they handle that?

And then the new showrunner they brought in was wildly unpopular with the cast and crew, to the point that the cast was rewriting their own sections of the script with better dialog, which in turn got the Screen Actor's Guild uptight, so they had to bring in Orlando Jones (Mr. Nancy) as an official writer, because he was the only cast member in the guild. He became the 'author' of any changes the actors wanted. Eventually, the new guy got totally sidelined; officially not "fired" because the company running it didn't want the reputation hit of losing two separate showrunners, but in reality, he's not doing anything anymore. Gaiman and Jones are maybe doing most of it now? That's not very clear.

And then Starz was upset that they A) were paying so much for the series, and B) that S2 wasn't looking like S1, even though they were trying to pay less money for it. And then Fremantle, who I guess actually owns the show and is responsible for making it, is being accused of not knowing what the heck they're doing and interfering all the time (like, by hiring the epically bad S2 showrunner). In S1, there was apparently one talented lady at that company more or less holding things together, but she left, and it sounds like they've descended into near-incompetence.

So I don't even know what to expect. I really enjoyed S1, even though parts of it went way off into the weeds, and it sounds like a damn miracle it was as good as it was. S2... man, that could be anything. Gaiman's got more influence, so it could be better, but so many things have gone wrong that it could end up being a real fustercluck.

Basically, almost everyone involved seems to have a different idea about just what, exactly, they're making. And not just minor creative differences, major gaping-chasm differences of vision.

Yeah, this show sounds like a clusterf*ck.

I'm surprised that Neil Gaiman is being sticky about the direction. He usually is pretty chill about adaptations of his work. I mean,... Lucifer, the Constantine movie. He's fine with those.

I think Starz screwed up when they thought this project would drive enough of a subscription increase to be worth the price they paid, not just for the rights, but for a full blown Bryan Fuller production.

Now they have to run season 2 like it is on Starz, not HBO or Netflix.

I get the vibe that American Gods is a novel that's closer to Gaiman's heart than Lucifer or Constantine as characters. Haven't other writers used those characters in comics before? If so, it's probably easier to be more hands off for a film adaptation of those characters, since you've kind of let go of them already.

American Gods was Gaiman's thing completely, and nobody else has touched it before now. I can see him being more protective of that. It's also possible that he wasn't entirely thrilled with earlier adaptations of his works, and decided he's not letting that happen any more.

I'm pretty disappointed to hear about the development problems for S2. This is the first I've heard, since I don't really follow production news. I liked S1, so I was hoping they'd be able to keep going, and yeah, losing Anderson and Chenoweth are big hits. I'm also not super optimistic about Gaiman taking a heavier hand in running things. I love him as a writer, but his scripts are...hit and miss. Plus, being a good writer has nothing to do with being able to be effective as a showrunner. It's a totally different set of skills. Based on what Malor posted, I don't have high hopes. Those kinds of production problems going that long are really hard to come back from.

Well, they've got a superb cast, and apparently most of them really love the show, so the actors are definitely doing their best to hold it together.

I think what I'm worried most about is that Fuller and Green may have been recognizing where they had real gold, Jones and Anderson being two of the biggest hitters, and were changing the script to take advantage of the cast. The "bad" scenario is that Gaiman wants to be faithful to the book, and play it pretty close to straight, which would most likely mean that some of the best people would end up with fairly minor roles.

The "good" scenario is that Gaiman has better taste in video, and was right to have them booted. But the loss of Anderson and Chenoweth worries me. Just because he wrote the book doesn't mean he's the best judge of how to transfer the story to video, and their anger and/or lack of confidence in the production makes me think Gaiman might be the lesser light, here. Some stories need to change a lot to work on video. Blade Runner is probably the canonical example, but there have been many others. Gods may be one of them, and Gaiman might not be correctly recognizing that.

Malor wrote:

It sounds like S2 has had a very, very hard time in development. They booted out the S1 showrunners because Gaiman didn't like where they were going with the script, and that meant that both Gillian Anderson (Media) and Kristin Chenoweth (Ostara) left the show. Media can be replaced in-universe with no problem, since she can look like anything she wants, but Anderson was killing that role, and losing her is a grievous blow. And I have no idea how they even deal with losing Chenoweth right where they did. How on earth do they handle that?

I had read before that Anderson was only there because of her relationship with Bryan Fuller. So when he left she did too.

Chenoweth isn't much of surprise because she's a hard core Christian and i found that her playing Ostara/Easter deliciously ironic and was curious if she knew about or was told about the book before agreeing to do that role.

Again everyone had done so damn well with the show. Too bad Starz were/is being tight on the purse strings.

The budget isn't necessarily a deal killer. A budget is just a set of boundaries you have to work around, and a good show runner knows how to do that. Hell, even Game of Thrones has a large, but set budget, and if you're looking, you can definitely see where they make decisions that are there to save their budget. You'll get scenes set in the same location, or a location where there's an establishing shot, but then if you watch what the scenes are showing you, you'll notice that they're actually in pretty small sets. They're just clever about knowing how much they have to show you to get across the setting. Then they'll also do episodes where there's not much in the way of big, expensive scenes, which means they're saving their money for the giant dragon fight in the next episode or something.

So yeah, a bad showrunner who doesn't know how to make the most of a limited budget will produce bad results. But if the showrunner knows what they're doing, you wouldn't even notice unless you started really looking, and even then, you probably won't care.

Chaz wrote:

The budget isn't necessarily a deal killer. A budget is just a set of boundaries you have to work around, and a good show runner knows how to do that. Hell, even Game of Thrones has a large, but set budget, and if you're looking, you can definitely see where they make decisions that are there to save their budget. You'll get scenes set in the same location, or a location where there's an establishing shot, but then if you watch what the scenes are showing you, you'll notice that they're actually in pretty small sets. They're just clever about knowing how much they have to show you to get across the setting. Then they'll also do episodes where there's not much in the way of big, expensive scenes, which means they're saving their money for the giant dragon fight in the next episode or something.

So yeah, a bad showrunner who doesn't know how to make the most of a limited budget will produce bad results. But if the showrunner knows what they're doing, you wouldn't even notice unless you started really looking, and even then, you probably won't care.

90 million doesn't come close to 10 million. It also does make a difference especially when trying to stay faithful to source material. There are certain things that HAVE to happen in a show like this and those things don't come cheap.

I didn't say that Game of Thrones had a small budget. I'm saying they easily could have spent WAY more than that. It's a period piece with a huge cast, taking place across a ton of locations, with a bunch of massive battles and supernatural stuff going on. Even with that budget, there were some obvious concessions to budget.

I'm also not saying American Gods doesn't have a small budget. But it's nuts to say "they couldn't possibly do it for that little." Maybe to do an exact translation of the source to the screen, but adaptations do that all the time. Doing it well is hard, but almost never impossible.

Chaz wrote:

I'm also not saying American Gods doesn't have a small budget. But it's nuts to say "they couldn't possibly do it for that little." Maybe to do an exact translation of the source to the screen, but adaptations do that all the time. Doing it well is hard, but almost never impossible.

That's the thing they are doing it well and it definitely has a cost. They're not doing an exact translation either. Anyone thinking this was going to be cheap was sadly mistaken.

ranalin wrote:
Chaz wrote:

The budget isn't necessarily a deal killer. A budget is just a set of boundaries you have to work around, and a good show runner knows how to do that. Hell, even Game of Thrones has a large, but set budget, and if you're looking, you can definitely see where they make decisions that are there to save their budget. You'll get scenes set in the same location, or a location where there's an establishing shot, but then if you watch what the scenes are showing you, you'll notice that they're actually in pretty small sets. They're just clever about knowing how much they have to show you to get across the setting. Then they'll also do episodes where there's not much in the way of big, expensive scenes, which means they're saving their money for the giant dragon fight in the next episode or something.

So yeah, a bad showrunner who doesn't know how to make the most of a limited budget will produce bad results. But if the showrunner knows what they're doing, you wouldn't even notice unless you started really looking, and even then, you probably won't care.

90 million doesn't come close to 10 million. It also does make a difference especially when trying to stay faithful to source material. There are certain things that HAVE to happen in a show like this and those things don't come cheap.

Eh. The big budget hasn't worked for Game of Thrones on that front.

The first season had too much meandering, which is something I actually sort of enjoyed on Hannibal (season 3), but since I had read the American Gods book before watching the first season, it was a bit harder to forgive and be patient.