GWJ Conference Call Episode 489

Unravel, Firewatch, Dragon Quest Heroes, Dragon Age: Inquisition, The Draw of Dynamic Relationships and More!

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This week Amanda, Karla Andrich, Lara Crigger and Kate Craig go deep the draw of dynamic relationships in games.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Golden Hour - Broke for Free - http://brokeforfree.com/ - 25:06

Comments

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Brendon, that is the best thing anyone could have possibly posted in response. Day: made.

------------------------------------

UMM

I'd like to make explicitly clear that my commute involves me riding trains and buses and that I do not, nor do I encourage, playing games on your phone while driving!

Also, some links that were mentioned (first two courtesy of KaterinLHC in another thread):
One Weird Trick That Makes a Novel Addictive
The Ideal Marriage, According to Novels
Xcom community pool ( Most recent compilation courtesy of Maq!) = This is a collection of characters created by Shawn, myself, and other community members!
The horrors of Monster Factory from some of the fine, hilarious peeps over at Polygon.

It was really cool to hear Amoebic at the helm this week, along with all the returning voices that I've missed for awhile.

I hope this crew gets together more often.

00:01:10 Unravel
00:06:31 Ni no Kuni
00:07:50 Dragon Quest Heroes
00:12:28 Firewatch
00:18:10 XCOM 2
00:20:46 Monster Factory (video series)
00:21:55 Final Fantasy VI
00:24:15 We Know the Devil
00:25:06 Dynamic Relationships in Games

Enjoyed the "Lady Zone" podcast!

I'm definitely in the camp of letting bad decisions stand. It always feels more natural and satisfying to me. Playing Walking Dead Season 2 was interesting in that respect. I made some bad decisions in that game but it seemed fitting considering Clem's age. Quite often other characters would argue vehemently with each other and then look to me for arbitration. I'd remain steadfastly silent thinking, 'I'm eleven years old. Sort it out amongst yourselves.'

Wonderful podcast, nice one Amanda !
Lovely to hear from Lara again + guests.
I feel spoiled now, come back soon.
As far as comic book crossovers, I think that started, within Marvel at least, with X-Men and Fantastic Four specials back in the early 70s

Amoebic wrote:

Brendon, that is the best thing anyone could have possibly posted in response. Day: made.

Hooray, glad to hear that. I thoroughly enjoyed the Lady Zone cast as well.

Amoebic wrote:

The horrors of Monster Factory from some of the fine, hilarious peeps over at Polygon.

I found it funny that you all mentioned laughing to the point of pain at Monster Factory. One night I couldn't sleep, so I watched The Final Pam series. Big mistake. I woke my wife up because the bed was shaking and I think she thought I was choking or something. Nope, just trying not to die from laughter.

I need to know why all the guys had to be kicked off for these wonderful contributors to come back.

Guys...? What did you do?

Tyops wrote:

I need to know why all the guys had to be kicked off for these wonderful contributors to come back.

Guys...? What did you do?

Stepped aside and applauded wildly.

brendonsmall wrote:

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So. Much. This. Actually joy-screamed in my car as the introductions were happening.

Higgledy wrote:

I'm definitely in the camp of letting bad decisions stand. It always feels more natural and satisfying to me.

I can't remember if I brought this up on the show or not, but in this playthrough of FF6, I let Cid die for the first time ever. And WOW. I should've been letting the dude choke on his crappy fish all along. The subsequent scene with Celes is so incredibly, incredibly important; it serves as a narrative bridge and ties together about a thousand different thematic elements and GOD I just can not believe I'd been robbing myself of this experience all this time, just because I didn't want to "lose" by letting Cid die. So yeah, sometimes it pays off to trust the writers, even in older games, and let your crappy decisions be what they are.

Slight 'well, actually' correction - the bit about the horse having opinions about the rider is from Douglas Adams, I think, not Terry Pratchett.

That said, I love hearing your voices, and I hope the Lady Zone visits GWJ more often

Substantive comment at the 45' mark:
What I really like is that you all are very supportive of each other. It's a very different feel than the podcast as usual.

Loved this week's episode, and am Flandersing along with BrendonSmall.

Higgledy wrote:

I'm definitely in the camp of letting bad decisions stand. It always feels more natural and satisfying to me. Playing Walking Dead Season 2 was interesting in that respect. I made some bad decisions in that game but it seemed fitting considering Clem's age. Quite often other characters would argue vehemently with each other and then look to me for arbitration. I'd remain steadfastly silent thinking, 'I'm eleven years old. Sort it out amongst yourselves.'

That's usually how I go through a first playthrough: make choices on the fly based on how I think I would handle it and let the ramifications play out. Second playthrough, though, is probably best described as a Reverse Asshole Run, where decisions are usually leaning towards not necessarily the paragon/ light side dynamic but towards whatever maximizes the reward/outcome of the interaction. Unless there's a dude standing by a window begging to be shoved out of it.

Cissy Jones! That was the voice actor behind Delilah in Firewatch. Shoot, I almost had it.

Also thanks kindly for the lovely words (and for letting me guest this week). Amanda's a wonderful host!

I've been waiting for this episode, I didn't think it would arrive so soon... I mean, Cory has hosted a bunch of eps and still can't get it right...
Nailed it Amanda, and it was great to hear from Lara, Kate and Karla again. It's been too long.

On player adaptation in RPG's, I tend to be a crowd pleaser as well and sometimes regret it a little at the end, I'm rarely one for a second play through (my story was my story and that's the end for me) and I often go into a game with an idea of who my character is, and that may change but even then I find myself bending to what my companions want in most cases.
I think as the youngest of three brothers I gained a little empathy which makes for being an adaptive person, my two older brothers are wildly different people and I've always made myself the bridge between them, sharing both of their interests before I found my own.

Also, on Ni No Kuni, the game is beautiful, amazing soundtrack, but my god people need a warning about the amount of grind in that game. I guess it's just expected when you know it's a JRPG, but yeah. That was a pretty but painful 75 hours that could have been a GOTY contender for me if you wiped away a little over half of it.
That said, the announcement of Ni No Kuni 2 piqued my interest a bit, but I can't imagine I'll buy a new console to play it...

Higgledy wrote:

I'm definitely in the camp of letting bad decisions stand. It always feels more natural and satisfying to me.

100% Agreed. My defining experience for this was in ME2, making the terrible decision to make a silly pass at Jack, it led to the death of Garrus, I was shattered, and blown away when I figured out that he could have lived if not for the series of decisions I'd made. ME3 was so sad for me because of it, but richer for having to live with the obviously hole that he would have filled.

Great panel, enjoying the show so far! (20 mins in)

I'm replaying Inquisition thanks to this podcast.

I'll add my voice to those who enjoyed this conversation.

troubleshot wrote:

On player adaptation in RPG's, I tend to be a crowd pleaser as well and sometimes regret it a little at the end, I'm rarely one for a second play through (my story was my story and that's the end for me) and I often go into a game with an idea of who my character is, and that may change but even then I find myself bending to what my companions want in most cases.

I am essentially the same way. I rarely play any kind of adventure or RPG more than once. I'm not sure if that's because I don't have time to play more than once, or because I don't want to re-write (my) history, but that's the way it is.

My characters tend toward behaving like I would like to behave. This is almost always a non-asshole response, no matter what you might have heard about me from elsewhere. Every once in a while I might decide that a particular NPC has just gotten under my skin once too often, but usually quick save before I take my vengeance so I can go back to a more normal storyline after I feel better. Yes, I realize that this contradicts what I said above about re-writing history. Consider it a Walter Mitty sequence if you like. My character enjoys his daydreamed revenge fantasy, then gets back to work.

Rat Boy wrote:

I'm replaying Inquisition thanks to this podcast.

Get to the Trespasser DLC so you can listen to that other cast (soon)!

Such an awesome episode!

Rat Boy wrote:

[Unless there's a dude standing by a window begging to be shoved out of it.

I can never not do that renegade interrupt.

Amoebic wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

I'm replaying Inquisition thanks to this podcast.

Get to the Trespasser DLC so you can listen to that other cast (soon)!

At my present rate, I imagine I'll get to the post-end game DLC by July...of 2017...

Alien Love Gardener wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

[Unless there's a dude standing by a window begging to be shoved out of it.

I can never not do that renegade interrupt.

It's right up there with "You think I give a damn; that's cute," telling Mordin to take a breath, and explaining Grunt's behavior because of Operation Fire Cobra Claw.

What a great show! Awesome job, Amanda!

I am on Team Lara (I think it was her voice chiming in with this) in that I cannot make different decisions on different playthroughs. Shepard is always a mostly-Paragon (I push that dude out the window) every. damn. time. I just cannot be an asshole in games (and I try not to be an asshole in life...barring comments about "Goalie Training" to ragin_redneck in Rocket League).

If I'm going to play renegade or be generally evil in games I have to have a back story in my head to justify it. I can't just be bad for being bad's sake.

For my renegade Shepard play throughs her attitude was that she had been entrusted with saving the galaxy and she would do everything necessary, however ruthless, to ensure that she meet that goal. She wouldn't hesitate or question things on moral grounds because it could mean the difference between and all the multifarious life in the galaxy being saved or lost.

In regards to the observation of JRPG's being more linear with defined characters, I think that's a divide in cultural desires and expectations as a whole. Western games have an obsession with making you part of the experience. It's about your choices and how immersive the experience is for you as a player. On the whole, Japanese games tend to feel more mechanically focused, and the narrative may or may not interact with that gameplay at all. As a result, you can have a game like Final Fantasy VI, with no real central protagonist. Or at least, no perspective character like most games.

Mass Effect always felt a bit off to me, because no matter how many choices I could make, Shepard never felt like my character. Similarly, Lee in The Walking Dead: Season One doesn't feel like my character, but because he is clearly defined, I feel like the "choices" are more implemented in a fashion that connects me to the character. At most, I am Lee's mood ring. I do not define Lee's personality, just his temperament. At the same time, because of the nature of the game, Lee's disappointment becomes my disappointment, and Lee's panic becomes my panic.

Shepard (at least, bland bro-shep with the worst line delivery ever) fails to achieve this because Shepard feels so generic without my input, yet unlike Dragon Age: Origins, he's still too defined for me to feel the same sort of emotionally symbiotic relationship with him as I can feel with Lee in Walking Dead. By removing a voice from the protagonist of Dragon Age: Origins, however, I now have a degree of authorship over that character. My overly-honorable Ned Stark of a poor dwarf was a completely different character than my cut-throat, cynical, cagey city elf.

I feel like Japanese games, if they offer player choice in dialogue, leans towards the Lee option, but nowhere near so expertly. They'd rather you be along for the ride and merely take the reins in combat, side quests, and other such matters. This isn't always true, of course, but it seems to be the trend. But I think this trend does allow Japanese games to, on average, have more varied and deeper characters than Western games (not always, especially these days when a lot of Japanese media is catering specifically to an Otaku audience rather than a more global crowd).

Aside from my major digression to any point being made: I had to listen to this podcast in two sittings, so sadly I'm afraid I didn't manage to catch the gist of "adaptation" beyond depth of characters outside of the protagonist/perspective character. It did, however, make me think of Mass Effect 3 and the Tali/Garrus pair-up, where clearly characters are doing their own thing when you're not around (though ultimately this, too, is only a result of whether the player romanced either or not). I was also reminded of Fire Emblem Fates (what with playing it right now), and while it's still player manipulated, you are able to play match-maker to the supporting cast as much as you are your own player character.

I feel like there is a game where characters will follow their own off-screen schedules and do their own thing, but not in the same sense as, say, Oblivion had it. I'm not sure. Overall, though, sounds like it ultimately comes down to a discussion of character agency.

Rat Boy wrote:

I'm replaying Inquisition thanks to this podcast.

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Best podcast in weeks! I love the vibe from you four and would happily listen to the Women with Jobs cast should you continue this trend!

It's funny that someone on this week's podcast used the phrase, "get your jollies". I always thought it was sort of a weird expression too, but I use it myself from time to time.

I enjoyed the podcast, the more I hear about Firewatch the more my resolve seems to weaken. Keep up the good work, gang.