Doom Catch-All of Doom

I managed to complete the first level on Ultra Violence, but my god was it tough. I couldn’t tell you how many times I died, even thought I was playing Dark Souls there for a second.

Weird, I saw a Polygon article which was pretty much pushing for everyone to try Ultra-Violence mode.

Maybe for the hardcore, but for most people I’d say Hurt Me Plenty is about right. I doubt I’ll continue on Ultra, takes way too long and I end up dead way too much.

Garth wrote:

Weird, I saw a Polygon article which was pretty much pushing for everyone to try Ultra-Violence mode.

Must not have been from the same person that legendary preview video of the last DOOM.

(For anyone unaware, Polygon posted a pre-release video of DOOM 2016 titled "The First Thirty Minutes", in which a player who clearly does not play FPS games struggles with concepts like aiming and fumbles through the game. Which of course generated a lot of nerd rage and all that toxic gamer garbage. But that aside, it was pretty hard to watch, and what Polygon was thinking giving the assignment to someone clearly not experienced enough to make this content is anyone's guess):

Maclintok wrote:

I swallowed my pride a bit yesterday and bumped it down to easy to finish up the Exultia mission. This feels more tuned like Hurt Me Plenty was on 2016. I will play the rest of Eternal on easy and if I like it enough will try to replay on something harder. When I still on default I didn't even feel like doing the first Slayer Gate because of how it wouldn't recover any resources or lives for you. The prospect of doing it just felt like a drag, tbh.

I turned it down to easy for the slayer gate because of the whole "you wont recover resources". I'm glad I did. Even on easy it was freaking NUTS. After the slayer gate I turned it back to hurt me plenty. I have a feeling I will keep doing this and if it gets too much I have no problem lowering it back down to easy for the main campaign.

I actually had not finished 2016 Doom, only was half way, so before I started Eternal, I finished it completely on Hurt Me Plenty. Yeah the differences in detail are stark, but what struck me the most was how much more mobile Eternal is. I really dig just the continuous rush of movement. Dash, monkey bars, etc. I cannot wait to get slow time runes for secondary skills. I feel like that will be a huuuuuge benefit.

Edit: another perspective, not trying to be “get good bro”

I found the Slayer Gates were pretty easy, even on Ultra-Violence. They’re designed for so much movement with jump pads, monkey bars, and ledges everywhere, it’s hard to actually end up touching the ground. I did have to do the last one twice but that was mostly due to my own mechanical error.

I will say, take a look at the “Chrono Step” rune that slows time while using a mod. I can’t image playing without it. Makes precision shots a cinch and provides that little bit of breathing room and time which makes it feel more like a rythme game.

It’s also super key to break enemy weak points as soon as possible. The few times I’ve let Revenant wander around with their rockets in tact too long are generally the times I die. Also discovered a cool combo on the Cyberdemons. Blood punch their armour off, then super shotgun chain their face (works even better with the flame chain mastery) and one shot in the face to stagger them.

I haven't had too much trouble with Ultra-Violence after incorporating these three things:

1) ABF. Always Be Freezing, and also Always Be Flaming.

Get that stupid frag grenade out of there. Freezing is the way and that ice grenade should be coming out CONSTANTLY.

I spent most of my early suit points on freeze powerups until I got them all. Freeze them for longer, freeze them more often, have them take more damage while frozen, have frozen enemies drop health. Other than 1-on-1 fighting a Marauder, ice grenade is the way.

Along with that, prioritized all the upgrades for faster flame-belching and having flaming enemies drop more/faster armor.

Finally, the most important rune: Equipment Fiend. Killing enemies that are "under the influence of equipment" (eg. frozen, burning) decreases the recharge of that equipment.

So you constantly burn and freeze and those frozen/burning enemies are pouring out health and armor and then when they die your gear recharges faster so you are even more constantly burning and freezing enemies because you are following ABF ALWAYS BE FREEZING and ALWAYS BE FLAMING

2) Somewhat related to #1: go out of your way to fully unlock the Super Shotgun stuff. Invest the 9 points in the first two upgrades and then grind out the final upgrade. That final upgrade is easy enough to get, you have to kill 50 enemies while meat-hooking them. Just kill every hapless weak enemy that way and you're done fast.

That final SS sets enemies on fire when you hook them, which makes them drop armor, and for us they're dropping extra armor because we picked the upgrades that make flaming enemies drop armor faster because we follow ABF ALWAYS BE FLAMING. So now we have an additional way of making enemies burn and we are stepping on armor every time we move an inch.

3) Alright something not related to ABF: chaingun shield. Blocks everything in front of you, melee attacks included. It cannot be overstated how powerful it is to say to every enemy in front of you, "no, you cannot hurt me, sorry, but eat some bullets for a while".

Yeah, the shield only lasts about 5 seconds. You know what's happening during those 5 seconds? Ice bomb is recharging.

Freeze and blast them

Oh he's thawing, shields up

Shield coming down, freeze again!

When I said #3 isn't about ABF? I lied.

ALWAYS BE FREEZING

Huh, and here I am not having switched to the freeze grenade once yet...

*Legion* wrote:

I haven't had too much trouble with Ultra-Violence after incorporating these three things:

1) ABF. Always Be Freezing, and also Always Be Flaming.

Get that stupid frag grenade out of there. Freezing is the way and that ice grenade should be coming out CONSTANTLY.

I spent most of my early suit points on freeze powerups until I got them all. Freeze them for longer, freeze them more often, have them take more damage while frozen, have frozen enemies drop health. Other than 1-on-1 fighting a Marauder, ice grenade is the way.

Along with that, prioritized all the upgrades for faster flame-belching and having flaming enemies drop more/faster armor.

Finally, the most important rune: Equipment Fiend. Killing enemies that are "under the influence of equipment" (eg. frozen, burning) decreases the recharge of that equipment.

So you constantly burn and freeze and those frozen/burning enemies are pouring out health and armor and then when they die your gear recharges faster so you are even more constantly burning and freezing enemies because you are following ABF ALWAYS BE FREEZING and ALWAYS BE FLAMING

2) Somewhat related to #1: go out of your way to fully unlock the Super Shotgun stuff. Invest the 9 points in the first two upgrades and then grind out the final upgrade. That final upgrade is easy enough to get, you have to kill 50 enemies while meat-hooking them. Just kill every hapless weak enemy that way and you're done fast.

That final SS sets enemies on fire when you hook them, which makes them drop armor, and for us they're dropping extra armor because we picked the upgrades that make flaming enemies drop armor faster because we follow ABF ALWAYS BE FLAMING. So now we have an additional way of making enemies burn and we are stepping on armor every time we move an inch.

3) Alright something not related to ABF: chaingun shield. Blocks everything in front of you, melee attacks included. It cannot be overstated how powerful it is to say to every enemy in front of you, "no, you cannot hurt me, sorry, but eat some bullets for a while".

Yeah, the shield only lasts about 5 seconds. You know what's happening during those 5 seconds? Ice bomb is recharging.

Freeze and blast them

Oh he's thawing, shields up

Shield coming down, freeze again!

When I said #3 isn't about ABF? I lied.

ALWAYS BE FREEZING

I would like to sign up for your newsletter sir

I personally think the improved mobility & platforming being one of the pillars of Eternal's design give it more diversity, better pacing & more expansive levels.

The degradation of enemies is another great touch, with body parts flying off giving you a really good representation of the damage you've inflicted on them.

The boost combined with the double jumping makes navigation a pure joy. The boost in particular transforms how you move & platform, it's such a great upgrade from Doom 2016.

Glycerine wrote:

Maybe for the hardcore, but for most people I’d say Hurt Me Plenty is about right. I doubt I’ll continue on Ultra, takes way too long and I end up dead way too much.

About two hours in and I've already died a few times on "Hurt Me Plenty", so that feels about right for difficulty.

I wish ammo wasn't quite so restrictive, and the platforming seems perhaps a little overemphasized, but neither issue is detracting too much from all the fun I'm having with the game when I get to play.

Wayfarer wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

I haven't had too much trouble with Ultra-Violence after incorporating these three things:

1) ABF. Always Be Freezing, and also Always Be Flaming.

Get that stupid frag grenade out of there. Freezing is the way and that ice grenade should be coming out CONSTANTLY.

I spent most of my early suit points on freeze powerups until I got them all. Freeze them for longer, freeze them more often, have them take more damage while frozen, have frozen enemies drop health. Other than 1-on-1 fighting a Marauder, ice grenade is the way.

Along with that, prioritized all the upgrades for faster flame-belching and having flaming enemies drop more/faster armor.

Finally, the most important rune: Equipment Fiend. Killing enemies that are "under the influence of equipment" (eg. frozen, burning) decreases the recharge of that equipment.

So you constantly burn and freeze and those frozen/burning enemies are pouring out health and armor and then when they die your gear recharges faster so you are even more constantly burning and freezing enemies because you are following ABF ALWAYS BE FREEZING and ALWAYS BE FLAMING

2) Somewhat related to #1: go out of your way to fully unlock the Super Shotgun stuff. Invest the 9 points in the first two upgrades and then grind out the final upgrade. That final upgrade is easy enough to get, you have to kill 50 enemies while meat-hooking them. Just kill every hapless weak enemy that way and you're done fast.

That final SS sets enemies on fire when you hook them, which makes them drop armor, and for us they're dropping extra armor because we picked the upgrades that make flaming enemies drop armor faster because we follow ABF ALWAYS BE FLAMING. So now we have an additional way of making enemies burn and we are stepping on armor every time we move an inch.

3) Alright something not related to ABF: chaingun shield. Blocks everything in front of you, melee attacks included. It cannot be overstated how powerful it is to say to every enemy in front of you, "no, you cannot hurt me, sorry, but eat some bullets for a while".

Yeah, the shield only lasts about 5 seconds. You know what's happening during those 5 seconds? Ice bomb is recharging.

Freeze and blast them

Oh he's thawing, shields up

Shield coming down, freeze again!

When I said #3 isn't about ABF? I lied.

ALWAYS BE FREEZING

I would like to sign up for your newsletter sir

I have always thought of Legion as Alec Baldwin.

Top_Shelf wrote:

I have always thought of Legion as Alec Baldwin.

Coffee's for slayers!

karmajay wrote:

Finished and enjoyed. I may go back in to try to find all the hiddens. That boss battle - yowzers. No idea how someone could finish it on a hard setting.

The final level took me two hours on Ultra-Violence. Wasn’t a big fan of the boss battle mechanics. Felt like I was just kiting everything to grab the infinite pickups to then chainsaw a grunt, to unload all my ammo, rinse and repeat 16 times. Only took three tries to beat it, mostly just a gob smack of patience and cool down management.

Twitch Prime loot:

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/JtVBhQj/Desktop-Screenshot-2020-03-26-19-44-38-94.jpg)

Is the chainsaw chain facing the right way this time?

Spikeout wrote:

I personally think the improved mobility & platforming being one of the pillars of Eternal's design give it more diversity, better pacing & more expansive levels.

The boost combined with the double jumping makes navigation a pure joy. The boost in particular transforms how you move & platform, it's such a great upgrade from Doom 2016.

Yeah, couldn’t disagree with you more here. After playing through a few more levels I’m starting to realize I don’t like this one near as much as the first. Whoever said it was just going from one battle arena to the next is right on the money, and the so-called “mobility” seems quite janky and not really fun at all. If I wanted to play Super Mario Brothers I’d be playing it, when I play Doom I want to shoot things. A lot of the puzzles and levels seem to really incorporate all of this movement, so I’m pretty surprised at how it feels so odd and tacked on. To each his or her own I guess, one person’s half-baked game mechanic is another person’s pure joy.

Overall I still like the game and don’t regret buying it, but it’s not even close to being as good as the original. The levels are mostly corridors and arenas, the puzzles are Super Mario meets Assassin’s Creed in the worst way, and the story is a complete mess. Really scratching my head on why this is getting such high scores, it’s a 7 at best. It’s still fun to play, but all the extra tacked on crap makes it hard to enjoy sometimes.

Even 2016 you could not survive if you did not move around all the time.

I watched a buddy of mine playing on Nightmare on Sunday night, and I actually thought it looked like a whole lot of fun. Even though the levels were "more linear" than what I played around with in DOOM 2016, it felt like the new mobility options made the exploration element more fun. DOOM 2016 also had some jumping around and hunting for secrets, but it was more simplified and thus the act of exploration was far less engaging. This looks a lot more active in terms of exploration, even if the levels aren't as open.

One could call it "streamlined" but I can also see it being viewed as less open and more linear. Though it wasn't as linear as I expected based on some feedback, it certainly was moreso than even the first level in 2016.

I'll definitely be picking it up eventually. I liked the look of it a lot.

I finished it, overall I enjoyed it. I played on the easiest setting after starting in normal. Just too much going on in normal and too much death to enjoy it. Love the graphics and the speed and the shooting aspects.

I hated the part with the platforming. Towards the end, I attempted many times on a jumping puzzle. Who plays Doom for jumping puzzles...

I can't wait for the next Wolfenstein or any game really to use this id tech engine.

karmajay wrote:

Even 2016 you could not survive if you did not move around all the time.

Yeah, but one of the issues I'm having is that because the levels seemed more open in 2016, it was easier to move around. It seems a bit harder to use soft cover while moving in Eternal because everywhere you go there are demons close by, with nothing to put between you and at least some of them.

Maybe that's intentional so that you use the invulnerability of glory kills and chainsaw as "cover", but it's just annoying to me.

I don't agree with everything in this, but some thoughts definitely resonate with me. I definitely agree with the point that this game replaced DOOM 2016's "push forward" combat with "run laps around the arena" combat instead.

I also agree that the ammo restrictions get tedious by the endgame. Once you start fighting a whole bunch of big enemies in a row, having to call time-out and run away to go chainsaw a scrub enemy just pulls you out of the action. There's a point in the game where chainsawing stops being part of the normal combat dance, and starts being this periodic side task you have to go do away from combat.

One thing this video didn't get into that has driven me nuts: the game is EXCEPTIONALLY poor at communicating to you just how much damage you've taken from a hit, outside of you having to look down at health counter. You can get grazed for literally a single-digit worth of damage, and still get a pretty strong red "damage" overlay on your view. As a result, it's hard to intuitively judge your health outside of glancing down at the number, which is not easy when the game is at its most relentless.

The worst is getting big scary red flashes when you're still full health, and the hits are only chipping away at armor. This should look ENTIRELY different, such that when I do see a red flash, it instantly communicates to me that armor is all gone and I'm taking health hits.

Glycerine wrote:
Spikeout wrote:

I personally think the improved mobility & platforming being one of the pillars of Eternal's design give it more diversity, better pacing & more expansive levels.

The boost combined with the double jumping makes navigation a pure joy. The boost in particular transforms how you move & platform, it's such a great upgrade from Doom 2016.

Yeah, couldn’t disagree with you more here. After playing through a few more levels I’m starting to realize I don’t like this one near as much as the first. Whoever said it was just going from one battle arena to the next is right on the money, and the so-called “mobility” seems quite janky and not really fun at all. If I wanted to play Super Mario Brothers I’d be playing it, when I play Doom I want to shoot things. A lot of the puzzles and levels seem to really incorporate all of this movement, so I’m pretty surprised at how it feels so odd and tacked on. To each his or her own I guess, one person’s half-baked game mechanic is another person’s pure joy.

Overall I still like the game and don’t regret buying it, but it’s not even close to being as good as the original. The levels are mostly corridors and arenas, the puzzles are Super Mario meets Assassin’s Creed in the worst way, and the story is a complete mess. Really scratching my head on why this is getting such high scores, it’s a 7 at best. It’s still fun to play, but all the extra tacked on crap makes it hard to enjoy sometimes.

I've heard some people mention about the platforming feeling janky. I am having a brilliant time with it (I'm on the Super Gore Nest), control in mid air feels flawless, the mantling once you get to a ledge is so smooth & seamless.

The act of grabbing onto a wall without using your boost can be a pain, requiring you to hit R3 (or the relative button on other systems) but if you do use your boost it grabs on automatically.

I've had sections in levels were there are monkey bars & those steel climb able walls were I am just flowing between double jumps, swinging, boosting then attaching onto the wall with zero issues at all.

The secrets in Eternal are much better because they are far better hidden requiring you to use these extra tools at your disposal. Its much more rewarding to uncover those items & areas.

I can appreciate that some fans (or maybe a lot) just want that pure combat loop without the platforming & puzzles.

I agree that the story is pretty rubbish, a lot of the codex is a bit of a slog to read. The other issue is the ammo one, needing to go off & chainsaw a lowly soldier or zombie just to be able to use some of your weapons can be a bit of a pain. The issue accentuates when there are bigger demons in the battlefield, in which your best guns are usually required.

Midway through the Super Gore Nest and I think I'm sold on the revamped combat design. I'm not in love with it to the point where I think 2016 is rubbish but going back to the previous game does feel rather staid and basic in comparison. I agree philosophically with the reduction in ammo reserves being paired with the new chainsaw mechanics and I feel it's more a question of tuning for how extreme you feel that design intent should be. I don't know how things work on PC but playing on the PS4 I am probably 30% of the time looking at my weapon selection wheel when fighting it out in those larger arenas. There is the option for quick swapping between my last used guns but even with that I'm bringing up that wheel because there are maybe 4 different enemy types in play on top of the fodder zombies and imps.

There seems to be an inverse relationship between my growing appreciation for the combat and my impatience with some of the more convoluted puzzle or puzzle/platforming sections. Partway through the Cultist Base I just threw up my hands and started playing with a level walkthrough beside me so I could get back to the good bits as quickly as possible.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/4UlHXS3.jpg)

Maclintok wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/SD7wYWa.jpg)

Toss a coin to your Doom Guy O valley of demons

I can't be certain, but I think Mac likes Doom.

Holy crap, I just finished the Gore Nest and the game even has those spinning fire chains from Super Mario Brothers! At this point it’s become less annoying and more comical, I just can’t help but laugh when I see some of these levels. Still fun to play though, so I’ll keep at it until the end.

Completed DOOM Eternal on UV.

Thoughts:

* ABF

* I don't mind that the combat is fundamentally different from DOOM 2016. We already have DOOM 2016. (And if only that game had real mapping/modding, it could be a platform for having that kind of gameplay forever, but alas, Bethesda Things). I do think a lot of pre-release hype really underplayed just how differently the combat sequences play out compared to DOOM 2016 though.

* The platforming never got old for me. If anything, I often felt like it was too forgiving, letting me make jumps that I didn't feel like I had legitimately done. I think that level of platforming "magnetism" was appropriate for Hurt Me Plenty and lower, but would not have minded it being toned down for UV and above.

* I really hope mapping/modding does come to the game, I would love to see what the community could do with this set of tools. I kinda hate that I made the decision to purchase the game without waiting and seeing on that part. Feels like I placed a vote with my dollars that is the opposite of the vote I would want to have placed. :/

* Probably the dumbest control design decision in the game is having one grenade-usage button, and one grenade-toggling button. That's two buttons. There are two grenade types. One button could have fired one grenade type and the other fired the other, making both directly accessible and removing the toggling completely. By the end of the game, I started figuring out how to include using frag grenades within my ABF loop. I would basically use frags immediately after using my ice grenade, so it was like "ice - toggle - frag - frag - toggle back to ice", as one continuous sequence of keystrokes. That let me actually use my frags without disrupting ABF. But direct keystrokes would have been MUCH better.

* When I started the game and saw how much the game gives away about where "secrets" are, I worried that they had ruined the concept. In practice, it wasn't ruined, but it is very different from the execution of secrets in classic DOOM and even DOOM 2016. It felt much less like secrets, and more like bonus "figure out how to get here" challenges. Which is cool too, but it's another one of those features that was taken from classic DOOM but then turned into something else entirely.

* Some enemies were just too damn bullet spongey. In particular, I think most of the mid-tier enemies needed to have one less Super Shotgun blast's worth of health each. I feel like the combat flow is really disrupted when you have to shoot one particular enemy SO many times. The challenge is more fun when you're jumping from enemy to enemy, trying to manage the horde. I'm sure they're less spongey on difficulties below UV, but I didn't want a less challenging game. I would have preferred more enemies (or longer lasting horde spawns) in place of reducing some of that spongeyness.

* The game's narrative was not worth the time spent on making cutscenes, nor the time asked of the player to sit through the cutscenes. The cutscenes are skippable, thankfully, and on any re-play I will be holding that R key every time. But I would have greatly preferred the game gone with a more minimal tact, even if not quite as minimal as DOOM 2016.

* Loved the costume changes, but don't make me exit the campaign to change! I get not changing during a level, but why in Hell can you not change outfits ON YOUR SHIP? That's literally the kind of thing an in-game hub area is for. Sloppy.

* I would have preferred some of the "you unlocked such-and-such!" and all that customization stuff been partitioned off to the multiplayer area, and less apparent to anyone not playing MP. Playing through the campaign, I so did not care about customizing my little nameplate and all that.

* As I said a few posts ago, I think the ammo restrictions are tedious by the second half of the game, and I wish the taking-damage indications did a much better job of communicating how much damage you took and what state you are in.

Spoiler:

* Did the post-game final radio transmission annoy the crap out of anyone else? It's supposed to be this transmission from Earth to other survivors, but by the end of the monologue, it turns into a what-happened-next voiceover about "humanity struggles to understand what happened to them", making no sense within the context of a resistance broadcaster communicating with other survivors. Just bad, sloppy writing.

* As much as I enjoyed Eternal, I'm one hour into DOOM 64, and I'm not so sure that Eternal is the best DOOM game released this year anymore.