The Expanse Catch-All

I love Holden's comment when

Spoiler:

the martians attempt to commandeer the Roci. "You have between now and whenever my mechanic gets back."

I think one of the parallels between Expanse and Firefly is that my favorite character just might be the ship. And that is no slight against the other characters in the show.
I really love Crisjen's spy/bodyguard. Naomi is great. Bobby is great. Alex is great. Fred Johnson's second is great. Erin Wright? (the main villain IMHO) is one of my favorites.
I actually really liked a lot of Bobby's marine squad

Welp, I have got about 5 episodes left
I just experienced "You're not that guy" - "I am that guy"
And "He's my best friend", "I don't sh*t where I eat. - You're on a ship. - I don't sh*t in the galley.", "I was just gonna do the camera guy but he's blind so"
"You have between now and when my mechanic gets back"
"Roci can you read me? I'm coming boys (guys?)"
I love Drummer and the Behemoth!
I am watching on prime on my computer with headphones. I wish I could remember but there was a part where I blurt out laughing (shocking my wife watching something else on TV) among the tension.

Spoiler:

Mau's sister's revenge plot should have been introduced much earlier. It seems very convenient and its bordering on forced.
I'm very sad about Crisjen's spy. It seems like he went through a lot for no end. Although, "I don't know what the f*ck to say" was pretty awesome. I hope Draper finds her way back into the story. She rocks!
The exchange between Miller and Holden inside the gate was clever. They sort of channeled the Life of Pi theme a bit.

fangblackbone wrote:

Welp, I have got about 5 episodes left
I just experienced "You're not that guy" - "I am that guy"
And "He's my best friend", "I don't sh*t where I eat. - You're on a ship. - I don't sh*t in the galley.", "I was just gonna do the camera guy but he's blind so"
"You have between now and when my mechanic gets back"
"Roci can you read me? I'm coming boys (guys?)"
I love Drummer and the Behemoth!
I am watching on prime on my computer with headphones. I wish I could remember but there was a part where I blurt out laughing (shocking my wife watching something else on TV) among the tension.

Spoiler:

Mau's sister's revenge plot should have been introduced much earlier. It seems very convenient and its bordering on forced.
I'm very sad about Crisjen's spy. It seems like he went through a lot for no end. Although, "I don't know what the f*ck to say" was pretty awesome. I hope Draper finds her way back into the story. She rocks!
The exchange between Miller and Holden inside the gate was clever. They sort of channeled the Life of Pi theme a bit.

Spoiler:

Potentially the Clarissa plot should have been set up earlier, but that's something that is true to the novels, so it;s not something forced by the conversion to television. Or perhaps it feels forces because in the novels there is a bit more breathing room between when mau gets arrested and when they enter the Slow Zone.

Drummer is a real stand out, not much of a character in the novels, but they fused 3 novels characters to produce a really good character, and Cara Gee's performance is my second favorite in the show next to Wes Chatham

Chatham is an enigma. The performance is so blunt and seemingly stoic. But the subtlety is near blink-and-you'll-miss-it. I think the best complement I can give it is that it is unique. I don't think I've seen anything like it which can make it uncomfortable half the time but that is the point. And then you throw into the mix that he is by far the funniest character.

fangblackbone wrote:

Chatham is an enigma. The performance is so blunt and seemingly stoic. But the subtlety is near blink-and-you'll-miss-it. I think the best complement I can give it is that it is unique. I don't think I've seen anything like it which can make it uncomfortable half the time but that is the point. And then you throw into the mix that he is by far the funniest character.

I think a lot of that comes from the actor being very familiar with the source material. He knows both who Amos appears to be, and who he is internally, and makes intentional choices to reveal a bit of Amos's inner character.

spoilerish on Amos as a character in the books

Spoiler:

In the novels, Amos is a full on sociopath. He experiences very little in the way of social emotions particularly empathy and sympathy, and is incapable of making moral judgements. He is self aware of that fact though, and like many sociopaths is good at faking those emotions for others. He intentionally latches onto people like Naomi and later Holden to be the moral compass he can't be for himself.

And done.
Wow! I thought I could wait for season 4 after the overwhelming awesomeness of the 30+ episodes.
But damn if I am not chomping at the bit for more Expanse.

I guess it is off to the books for me. Maybe they are on KU as that $.99 for 3 months seems irresistible.

The characters are so good! Draper, Drummer, Naomi, Amos, Alex, Miller, (sh*t even Clarissa Mau), the priest lady, Evenwright, David Strathairn (sp?), the bit characters like Georgi, Ren? (the first one Clarissa killed), the belter racer that opened the gate, Julie Mau, the martian ship commander that refused to fire above Io, the prostitute girlfriend of Miller's partner, the belter little sh*t and his uncle, Miller's friend on Eros, etc.

So many great moments! 30+ episodes and zero of them filler, mediocre or trash. All of the huge plot points and epic scale yet one of my favorite moments are the scenes leading up to Draper reaching the ocean.

Who is the author of the books this is based on?

James S. A. Corey, a pseudonym for the combo of Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck.

Garrcia wrote:

Who is the author of the books this is based on?

The first book is titled Leviathan Wakes if you are looking for start on the series.

Just finished Season 3. So good. The whole series has been just brilliant. I'm surprised at the level of closure at the end of it. Although I'm super pumped at the idea of Season 4, if Amazon hadn't picked it up, I'd probably not feel too disappointed.

Before watching it, I often saw The Expanse referred to as "Game of Thrones in space". This turned out to be an incredibly bad comparison for a bunch of reasons, but one that stands out is that there's no filler content in The Expanse. Whereas GoT can go almost entire episodes without moving the plot forward, each episode of The Expanse was filled with plot and character development. And a lack of gratuitous violence and nudity - that's always good.

fangblackbone wrote:

The characters are so good! Draper, Drummer, Naomi, Amos, Alex, Miller, (sh*t even Clarissa Mau), the priest lady, Evenwright, David Strathairn (sp?), the bit characters like Georgi, Ren? (the first one Clarissa killed), the belter racer that opened the gate, Julie Mau, the martian ship commander that refused to fire above Io, the prostitute girlfriend of Miller's partner, the belter little sh*t and his uncle, Miller's friend on Eros, etc.

I was going to say the same thing. So many great, memorable, fully realised characters. Even the characters you only see a little bit of seem like they have great depth to them. No one's really there for the sake of being there.

It really is a how to on creating a world with life in it.
I was curious as to why Miller was credited until 2019
because after Eros the only thing I could think of was
a flashback cameo here or there. And then bam, half
way through season 3 he shows up and it critical to the
plot and whenever season 4 comes around.

I am trying to think of the most obscure character to
test the depth of characters and the show just keeps
knocking them out. The OPA member that stabs Miller's
partner in season one that escapes justice on a fielder's
choice and then shows up on Eros to a just ending.

Prax's (sp?) friend that he escapes Gannymede with that
gets spaced.
The belter that holds the door and gets the evacuees to
follow order and own their fate. And then gives up his seat
to Naomi. (is it getting dusty in here?)

The documentary crew.

Just brilliant stuff.

I think in some ways it is akin to Game of Thrones in space
but the distinction is that it is just as brutal as GoT and every
character has their own agenda but without the March Madness
bracket style back stabbing. Everything isn't I am going to kill
you because I can and at the first opportunity. You can be
just as awful and brutal with collusion, manipulation and
collaboration.

Read the books, Fang, you’ll be even more satisfied.

Yuuuuuup.

fangblackbone wrote:

It really is a how to on creating a world with life in it.
I was curious as to why Miller was credited until 2019
because after Eros the only thing I could think of was
a flashback cameo here or there. And then bam, half
way through season 3 he shows up and it critical to the
plot and whenever season 4 comes around.

Miller stuff

Spoiler:

Det Miller as a character is kind of eh, hes a little scary in his obsession and a bit grating. The Investigator on the other hand is one of my favorite characters in the entire book series, and should play a very prominent roll in season 4

Season 4 casting for book familiar folks

Spoiler:

Keon Alexander is listed as being cast as "a Belter Faction Leader"; What do you think the over under is he's playing Marcos Inaros introduced early the way Avasarala was? DO y'all think they will also introduce his son in season 4?

Ugh latest guesses are December for release of season 4, since filming just wrapped end of last month. Why does time have to be so frustratingly linear and sloooooow?!

thrawn82 wrote:

Miller stuff

Spoiler:

Det Miller as a character is kind of eh, hes a little scary in his obsession and a bit grating. The Investigator on the other hand is one of my favorite characters in the entire book series, and should play a very prominent roll in season 4

Spoiler:

Det. Miller's grating because, well, he's an amoral asshole who professionally burned out years and years ago.

His obsession with Julie Mao is somewhat less scary if viewed from the perspective that Miller's trying to redeem himself and his failed career (and life) by finding Julie. Julie was someone who stuck to her principles and didn't sell out--unlike Miller--and he came to greatly admire her for that. That admiration turned into much more of an obsession after Miller got fired and the solar system slid into chaos largely because he had nothing else in his life. Finding Julie was something he could do that would prove both that he was still a good detective and a good person.

His "you made me believe in something" speech to her was worth everything that happened before it.

halfwaywrong wrote:

Just finished Season 3. So good. The whole series has been just brilliant. I'm surprised at the level of closure at the end of it. Although I'm super pumped at the idea of Season 4, if Amazon hadn't picked it up, I'd probably not feel too disappointed.

Before watching it, I often saw The Expanse referred to as "Game of Thrones in space". This turned out to be an incredibly bad comparison for a bunch of reasons, but one that stands out is that there's no filler content in The Expanse. Whereas GoT can go almost entire episodes without moving the plot forward, each episode of The Expanse was filled with plot and character development. And a lack of gratuitous violence and nudity - that's always good.

In terms of comparison, what I keep hearing is Mass Effect.
I don't agree with either of them.

I suspect that Space Opera is simply not as popular as video games, or High Fantasy, so people relate it to what they know. Otherwise we'd hear stuff like "Reminded me of the Commonwealth Saga, but with more focus on characters".

But I agree, it's not GoT or ME. Certainly it's not *intended* to be either of those. It's a blockbuster series in its own right.

Robear wrote:

I suspect that Space Opera is simply not as popular as video games, or High Fantasy, so people relate it to what they know. Otherwise we'd hear stuff like "Reminded me of the Commonwealth Saga, but with more focus on characters".

But I agree, it's not GoT or ME. Certainly it's not *intended* to be either of those. It's a blockbuster series in its own right.

It does definitely call back to Hamilton's work, with a much less fantastic tech level (well except the deliberately lovecraftian stuff)

And Reynolds, and Cherryh, and Anderson, and Schroeder, and many others. But I think what the authors have done is to frame the work from limited viewpoints in a way that brings both grand maneuverings and personal crises together, with emphasis on the latter. It's almost a clockwork approach that mimic the inevitability of orbits. There are a lot of situations that the reader and often the characters can see coming, but mostly can't avoid. Other series often emphasize the agency of individuals as the prime mover; in this, there's one guy *trying* to behave that way, to drive events, and everyone else is just hanging on as he gets knocked around by events pretty much like everyone else.

It's an interesting dynamic, for sure. Flips the whole "Vorkosigan hero" model on its head.

Robear wrote:

And Reynolds, and Cherryh, and Anderson, and Schroeder, and many others. But I think what the authors have done is to frame the work from limited viewpoints in a way that brings both grand maneuverings and personal crises together, with emphasis on the latter. It's almost a clockwork approach that mimic the inevitability of orbits. There are a lot of situations that the reader and often the characters can see coming, but mostly can't avoid. Other series often emphasize the agency of individuals as the prime mover; in this, there's one guy *trying* to behave that way, to drive events, and everyone else is just hanging on as he gets knocked around by events pretty much like everyone else.

It's an interesting dynamic, for sure. Flips the whole "Vorkosigan hero" model on its head.

Nemesis Games wrote:

“What did you do?” Fred asked.
“There was a button,” Holden said. “I pushed it.”
“Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn’t it?”

Theme of the Series wrote:

Things change, and they don't change back.

Nemesis Games wrote:

“What did you do?” Fred asked.
“There was a button,” Holden said. “I pushed it.”
“Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn’t it?”

Holden being a bit of an amiable, naive f*ckup is one of the few things from the books that I miss in the show.

ruhk wrote:
Nemesis Games wrote:

“What did you do?” Fred asked.
“There was a button,” Holden said. “I pushed it.”
“Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn’t it?”

Holden being a bit of an amiable, naive f*ckup is one of the few things from the books that I miss in the show.

I think I saw him described as a Paladin who somehow used Wisdom as his dump stat

Finished s3 this morning. LOVED IT.

Tanglebones wrote:
ruhk wrote:
Nemesis Games wrote:

“What did you do?” Fred asked.
“There was a button,” Holden said. “I pushed it.”
“Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn’t it?”

Holden being a bit of an amiable, naive f*ckup is one of the few things from the books that I miss in the show.

I think I saw him described as a Paladin who somehow used Wisdom as his dump stat

I think this is probably why I love loathing him. But yeah, the show's characterization of him has him mess up a lot less, though I still find myself muttering an occasional, "But why?" at the screen.

I love Holden, book and show.

Aeazel wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:
ruhk wrote:
Nemesis Games wrote:

“What did you do?” Fred asked.
“There was a button,” Holden said. “I pushed it.”
“Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn’t it?”

Holden being a bit of an amiable, naive f*ckup is one of the few things from the books that I miss in the show.

I think I saw him described as a Paladin who somehow used Wisdom as his dump stat

I think this is probably why I love loathing him. But yeah, the show's characterization of him has him mess up a lot less, though I still find myself muttering an occasional, "But why?" at the screen.

Well, prettying up characters both physically and in character is one of the nastier tendencies of tv and movies. See also: Hermione "Knockout Mary Sue" Granger v Ron "Idiot Sidekick" Weasley

thrawn82 wrote:

Well, prettying up characters both physically and in character is one of the nastier tendencies of tv and movies. See also: Hermione "Knockout Mary Sue" Granger v Ron "Idiot Sidekick" Weasley

To some extent. I've found the show does a much better job at characterizing the other members of the Roci sooner. Naomi and Alex in particular felt like they took quite some time to flesh out more in the books (beyond the personalities ascribed by being amazing at their particular jobs), and the show couldn't quite justify the longer wait on those. It's definitely made them more interesting to me (and I already enjoyed both in the books for different reasons).

Aeazel wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

Well, prettying up characters both physically and in character is one of the nastier tendencies of tv and movies. See also: Hermione "Knockout Mary Sue" Granger v Ron "Idiot Sidekick" Weasley

To some extent. I've found the show does a much better job at characterizing the other members of the Roci sooner. Naomi and Alex in particular felt like they took quite some time to flesh out more in the books (beyond the personalities ascribed by being amazing at their particular jobs), and the show couldn't quite justify the longer wait on those. It's definitely made them more interesting to me (and I already enjoyed both in the books for different reasons).

That's true. I have been re-watching the show and noticed they are already seeding Naomi plot development from books 5 and 6 by season 1 ep 4.