Why is there such a huge discrepancy here?
Because we're tired. Of it all.
We're tired of terrorists. We've literally been fighting them for 12 years and that hasn't fixed a damn thing. All we got out of our little adventure was a couple thousand dead troops and a couple trillion more in debt. In fact, our overreaction to 9/11 has made everything worse seeing how the invasion of Iraq is the reason groups like ISIS exist.
We're also tired of gun violence. People aren't reacting the same to San Bernadino as they did to Paris because we're not really shocked about mass shootings, terrorist related or not, here anymore. Dozens of people shot is a tragedy in Paris, but it's a bad summer weekend in Chicago. When more than 22 people a day get murdered with a firearm (and many more wounded) you tend to get desensitized to it.
Seriously, if the Bernadino shooters weren't Muslim their actions would be chalked up to just another workplace shooting. An extreme incident for sure, but it's not like a disgruntled worker hasn't shot multiple coworkers before in America.
And we're also tired just how easy it all is. At least with Paris the attackers had to get their weapons smuggled in from Eastern Europe. With the San Bernardino shootings they just had to moosey on down to their local gun store and buy them.
I certainly don't want America to react by getting all jingoistic like we did after 9/11, screaming for blood and revenge. Now's the time we need to calmly sit down and quietly reflect on everything we've done to get this point. And then figure out how we fix things. Preferably in ways that don't involve us bombing more strangers and panic buying more of the same firearms that were used in San Bernardino.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the one bright (if sad) spot in this latest terror attack is how our domestic gun control debate has co opted and thus far largely muted America's reaction to this (tenuously) ISIL inspired atrocity. IS would have loved for a big over reaction from America from all of this. For an enemy that's demonstratively impervious to both bombing and appeasement, frustrating IS has got to count for something.
Bfgp wrote:Nomad wrote:It is interesting to look at the difference in the reaction to the terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino. Where are all the US flag overlays on Facebook profiles? Instead of #prayforParis, it's "God Can't Fix This", and instead of universal outrage against ISIS, it's all about gun control.
Why is there such a huge discrepancy here?
Probably because you're desensitized from daily shootings. God has nothing to do with gun regulation which was the whole point of that tabloid headline.
If America is so desensitized, why the huge Facebook profic pic campaign for Paris? Why did #PrayforParis catch fire when prayer is slammed in a terrorist event in the US not even a month later?
Because for France, this was something the likes they hadn't seen in many many years. For the US, it was a Wednesday. We've had more shooting like this occur in the US this year than we've had days.
Seriously, there's only so sensitive we can be before we just get exhausted. That's why this crap has to end. We should not be desensitized to people dying because some dumbass gets a hair up his/her ass to shoot shit up and only needs to be able to afford the gun and ammo.
There's been a shooting in Roseburg, OR, which is where my folks live. There's been a shooting in San Bernardino, which is where friends live. I believe one of the victims of San Bernardino was a friend of a friend.
I'm getting really sick of feeling like one of these days I'm going to see someone I know in the victim lineup.
I tell you, I work with San Bernardino County's finest.
One coworker was telling me that we need to round up all the Muslims and put them in camps like we did with the "Asians" during WW2.
Another is arguing that this is why we need fewer fun control laws. ("He would never have done this if everyone in there were carrying.")
Given my past conversations with them, I know they are both serious.
I really need to move on to a better job and more rational coworkers...
In addition to what everybody else said, Paris was a coordinated firearm and bomb attack carried out simultaneously over multiple sites. That has yet to happen in the US. And seems rare worldwide. I know it happened in India a while back, but off the top of my head can't think of anywhere else.
San Bernadino... Yeah the details and motives may be a little different each time, but it feels like we'll be lucky not to have another one of these before the end of the year. At some point, the various powers that be need to be held accountable for not trying to fix this. That's where the anger and frustration comes from.
I tell you, I work with San Bernardino County's finest.
One coworker was telling me that we need to round up all the Muslims and put them in camps like we did with the "Asians" during WW2.
Another is arguing that this is why we need fewer fun control laws. ("He would never have done this if everyone in there were carrying.")
Given my past conversations with them, I know they are both serious.
I really need to move on to a better job and more rational coworkers...
I thought American-Japanese soldiers had some of the most exemplary military records in the US forces of the time? People like George Takei are pretty vocal about that stuff, I'm surprised people still say things like that.
In the WW2 era, innocent Germans and Italians were detained in Australia. It just goes to show that human folly and history will do its damnest to repeat itself.
I tell you, I work with San Bernardino County's finest.
One coworker was telling me that we need to round up all the Muslims and put them in camps like we did with the "Asians" during WW2.
Another is arguing that this is why we need fewer fun control laws. ("He would never have done this if everyone in there were carrying.")
Given my past conversations with them, I know they are both serious.
The most pro-gun person I know is the wife of an air force pilot. She absolutely believes the best route to a secure America is a gun in every hand. Her kids have guns as well (though I'd bet that by "having" guns they're actually locked in a gun safe and used for target shooting, since a 7 year old can't get a concealed carry permit). This is the America we live in.
[edit]
For example, she posted this the other day and was serious about it:
Perhaps it's just my quaint Canadian sensitivities but I look at that image and see 4 easy to steal guns for someone of malicious intent.
If America is so desensitized, why the huge Facebook profic pic campaign for Paris? Why did #PrayforParis catch fire when prayer is slammed in a terrorist event in the US not even a month later?
#PrayforParis was notoriously opposed by many French; their reaction was that religion was part of the problem, and their faith was in life, in music, in food. The resulting hashtag was #Parisisforlife.
In general, Americans have no skin in France's game. We can objectively look at how horrible it is to have gunmen wandering around shooting people in mass quantities, and the effect that has on a country that sees this only rarely.
However, here, we see it every week, and beyond that, the population seems pretty well split on what to do about it. That means that even mentioning it is a political act; it can divide friends and annoy family. And any suggestion as to how to fix is met with dogmatic rhetoric and phrases like "libtard moonbat" and "gun nut".
Really, who wants to stick their hand in that blender? Until we learn to separate disagreement from vilification, we'll have this problem. We'll keep our eyes averted rather than choose to deal with problems.
Mantid wrote:I tell you, I work with San Bernardino County's finest.
One coworker was telling me that we need to round up all the Muslims and put them in camps like we did with the "Asians" during WW2.
Another is arguing that this is why we need fewer fun control laws. ("He would never have done this if everyone in there were carrying.")
Given my past conversations with them, I know they are both serious.
The most pro-gun person I know is the wife of an air force pilot. She absolutely believes the best route to a secure America is a gun in every hand. Her kids have guns as well (though I'd bet that by "having" guns they're actually locked in a gun safe and used for target shooting, since a 7 year old can't get a concealed carry permit). This is the America we live in.
[edit]
For example, she posted this the other day and was serious about it:
Yeah I know people like that as well but what they fail to account for is that it took TWENTY COPS to take those shooters down and even then, one of the cops was shot. Everyone with a gun sounds like a hidden heroic potential in all of us. It sounds so empowering but in reality, it will get you shot or cause you to shoot to the wrong person for the wrong reason. Or cause people with uncontrollable anger issues to shoot other people. It's so crazy dumb....
Perhaps it's just my quaint Canadian sensitivities but I look at that image and see 4 easy to steal guns for someone of malicious intent.
I see a guy on his phone not paying attention to where he's walking, he accidentally bumps into and knocks over the elderly woman who stops in front of him for traffic. Disoriented and thinking she's being mugged, the elderly woman whips out her gun and unloads point blank at the phone guy, killing him. The other two, suddenly confused at being in the middle of a firefight, take aim and empty their clips into both the old lady and the now-dead phone guy. Everyone else on the block (not pictured) turn at the sound of gunfire just in time to see two maniacs shooting an old lady and a corpse, and suddenly there are now 20-30 people on the street pulling out their own guns and firing indiscriminately. Within minutes, hundreds more citizen cowboys start pouring onto the block from neighboring streets, attracted by the sound of gunfire and the need to feel important in an uncaring world. The fighting eventually ends an hour later with a 10% decrease in the cities' population and all bullets within a five mile radius having been spent. Later that day an NRA spokesman suggests that the tragedy could have been averted if only the guns everyone was carrying were allowed to legally carry their own, smaller guns.
krev82 wrote:Perhaps it's just my quaint Canadian sensitivities but I look at that image and see 4 easy to steal guns for someone of malicious intent.
I see a guy on his phone not paying attention to where he's walking, he accidentally bumps into and knocks over the elderly woman who stops in front of him for traffic. Disoriented and thinking she's being mugged, the elderly woman whips out her gun and unloads point blank at the phone guy, killing him. The other two, suddenly confused at being in the middle of a firefight, take aim and empty their clips into both the old lady and the now-dead phone guy. Everyone else on the block (not pictured) turn at the sound of gunfire just in time to see two maniacs shooting an old lady and a corpse, and suddenly there are now 20-30 people on the street pulling out their own guns and firing indiscriminately. Within minutes, hundreds more citizen cowboys start pouring onto the block from neighboring streets, attracted by the sound of gunfire and the need to feel important in an uncaring world. The fighting eventually ends an hour later with a 10% decrease in the cities' population and all bullets within a five mile radius having been spent. Later that day an NRA spokesman suggests that the tragedy could have been averted if only the guns everyone was carrying were allowed to legally carry their own, smaller guns.
Perhaps it's just my quaint Canadian sensitivities but I look at that image and see 4 easy to steal guns for someone of malicious intent.
I see every tense situation turning into a crazy shootout where tons of people end up in the hospital.
Can anyone find this old GIF where someone pulls out a gun in a convenience store, followed shortly by the shopkeeper then everyone in the store pulling a weapon out? Because that's what this discussion reminds me of.
Off topic: sounds like a great Everything Else thread - "I can't find this GIF/meme - please help me"
ruhk wrote:krev82 wrote:Perhaps it's just my quaint Canadian sensitivities but I look at that image and see 4 easy to steal guns for someone of malicious intent.
I see a guy on his phone not paying attention to where he's walking, he accidentally bumps into and knocks over the elderly woman who stops in front of him for traffic. Disoriented and thinking she's being mugged, the elderly woman whips out her gun and unloads point blank at the phone guy, killing him. The other two, suddenly confused at being in the middle of a firefight, take aim and empty their clips into both the old lady and the now-dead phone guy. Everyone else on the block (not pictured) turn at the sound of gunfire just in time to see two maniacs shooting an old lady and a corpse, and suddenly there are now 20-30 people on the street pulling out their own guns and firing indiscriminately. Within minutes, hundreds more citizen cowboys start pouring onto the block from neighboring streets, attracted by the sound of gunfire and the need to feel important in an uncaring world. The fighting eventually ends an hour later with a 10% decrease in the cities' population and all bullets within a five mile radius having been spent. Later that day an NRA spokesman suggests that the tragedy could have been averted if only the guns everyone was carrying were allowed to legally carry their own, smaller guns.
I literally laughed out loud until the end. Then I got sad.
This is the kind of backlash I was expecting when I made this thread.
Donald Trump Calls For 'Complete Shutdown' Of Muslims Entering U.S.
And a wonderful email from my aunt
This is so sad for America and our way of Christian life......what in the world will happen with our children!!!!! Give it serious thought. Hard to believe this is really happening, but it is!!!Main Stream media just walks right by this time and time again. I am confident most Democrats don’t even know who she is or what she does.
1977 Stanford yearbook VALERIE JARRETT. 1977 Stanford yearbook Here is the lead fox in the house. This one gets to whisper in the kings ear many times a day. I’d like to draw your attention to the small print next to Valerie’s name. While attending Stanford University. ponder and re-ponder what she boldly stated way back in 1977 “.......using freedom of religion in America against itself.” AND guess what....that is exactly what she and her Muslim czars have, and are doing as we sleep. VALERIE JARRETT - The Top Muslim in the Top Power Seat - Obama's TOP ADVISOR . Yes ladies and gentlemen, THIS is Obama's top advisor.
Seems as if his promise to fundamentally change America is in full swing
Had enough yet?
Of course the quote is fake. Hell the woman (Valerie Jarrett isn't even Iranian - or Muslim!) but this will be passed around by right-wingers as another sign about how evil Islam is and "what will happen to out children!"
It is just scary how the right wing propaganda gets spread.
This is the kind of backlash I was expecting when I made this thread.
Donald Trump Calls For 'Complete Shutdown' Of Muslims Entering U.S.
And a wonderful email from my aunt
This is so sad for America and our way of Christian life......what in the world will happen with our children!!!!! Give it serious thought. Hard to believe this is really happening, but it is!!!Main Stream media just walks right by this time and time again. I am confident most Democrats don’t even know who she is or what she does.
1977 Stanford yearbook VALERIE JARRETT. 1977 Stanford yearbook Here is the lead fox in the house. This one gets to whisper in the kings ear many times a day. I’d like to draw your attention to the small print next to Valerie’s name. While attending Stanford University. ponder and re-ponder what she boldly stated way back in 1977 “.......using freedom of religion in America against itself.” AND guess what....that is exactly what she and her Muslim czars have, and are doing as we sleep. VALERIE JARRETT - The Top Muslim in the Top Power Seat - Obama's TOP ADVISOR . Yes ladies and gentlemen, THIS is Obama's top advisor.
Seems as if his promise to fundamentally change America is in full swing
Had enough yet?
Not that it will matter to your aunt, but Snopes debunked all of those claims about Valerie Jarrett.
Hell, she's not even Muslim. Her parents were American citizens. She was born in Iran because her father, a doctor, was running a children's hospital as part of a program where American physicians and agricultural experts helped developing countries' health and farming efforts. She was back in America by the time she was a kindergartener.
Any articles on how apparently useless all this NSA monitoring is since apparently authorities had no clue that for years this person was slowly turning radical.
I suspect that the data was all there; the information about their associations came very quickly. It's a matter of where the analysts choose to look. If they were not pulling on threads connected to these folks, they would not have gone into the weeds on them.
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