The Beginner's Guide Spoiler Section With Shawn and Karla Andrich, Julian Murdoch, Allen Cook and Erik Hanson
Join the GWJ crew as they share their unique takes on The Beginner's Guide. The game itself is about an hour long and well worth your time!
To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.
Links:
Music credits:
Rooftop - Dualryan - https://dualryan.bandcamp.com/album/... - Intro
Turn Back - Dualryan - https://dualryan.bandcamp.com/album/... - Outtro
Comments
I love this community, and i loved this panel. Thank you so much for doing this one. Well beyond most other games (or digital environmental theater experiences), this is one that really benefits from hearing a variety of perspectives on it. I look forward to hearing even more as the community weighs in.
A few of my thoughts:
I had difficulty ignoring that this was the followup to The Stanley Parable. Early on, the comment about
On the house -
On the theater -
On Julian's last point - a bit after i finished it i went looking for some perspectives, and found both this thorough article from Laura Hudson which is very much a review from a critic's perspective, and this review from Ars Technica which is very much from a gamer's perspective. That these were among the first two links i found really proves his point.
Pokemon Go: 2564 2051 2640
I listened to this about five minutes before breaking down and downloading it myself. I will comment again when I a) play TBG and b) listen to the rest. Curse you for making me spend $8 on what could be the most interesting game this year!
PSN: UpToIsomorphism
oilypenguin: That is a terrible joke and I'd ask you to be ashamed of yourself but you've been around here long enough that I know you'll be proud of it.
detroit20: UptoIsomorphism has it right.
Upon hearing their glowing recommendation at the start of the podcast I paused and bought the game and played it. At $8 I don't think it was a good buy. I had a much better time listening to the podcast, although I wouldn't have had context while listening, still would not recommend.
Great episode though!
I disagree. The game is very artsy and a bit up-its-own-ass. But I think this game was amazing.
PSN: UpToIsomorphism
oilypenguin: That is a terrible joke and I'd ask you to be ashamed of yourself but you've been around here long enough that I know you'll be proud of it.
detroit20: UptoIsomorphism has it right.
Great discussion. Everyone's thoughts, especially rabbit's, helped crystallize the sort of unformed reaction I had to the game after
I beat itI finished it.Gravey, I'm never sure, on a scale of 1-10, just how serious you are when you post. – Minarchist
Yeah, I can see that.
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
About the cave, with the Chat Bubbles. Did it bother anyone else to see bubbles off in the distance, in areas that you couldn't reach?
The joke about jumping over the chasm, and then finding out you can't actually get there, drove me nuts.
"You've got to go on without me. I'm stuck for the next 2 turns."
I think I tried to jump/fall off every ledge in the Beginner's Guide.
Words... are a big deal.
Jill Lapore wrote:Editing is one of the great inventions of civilization.
I alluded to this in a spoiler marked comment over on the main thread to the game before listening to this podcast, but yeah, my experience of the game was very much in line with what Certis described.
Regarding the word "coda":
100% agreed. It was beautiful, and poignant, and heartbreaking. And for me, it was perfectly constructed to say the things it had to say to me.
zeroKFE on: XBL | Steam | Instagram
I'm a little bit gobsmacked that it took until the end of the podcast for someone to mention the possibility that:
You've never known true joy until you've shaken a lich stick at someone.
Yeah, the really amazing thing is that work completely supports two (or three, or four) substantively different yet equally impactful interpretations, all of which get at some really though provoking, emotionally resonant sh*t.
I really hope he doesn't ever talk about what he meant the game to be about -- it's too good left open for each player to find for themselves.
zeroKFE on: XBL | Steam | Instagram
The obvious question to me is:
"What's the point in a head full of something, if you've got a heart full of nothing?"
There's even
First thing my grandfather taught me was "Don't let any hellportals near your junk."
Steam
So after hearing all the hype about The Beginner's Guide I downloaded it. I sat down on Tuesday, turned off my phone, and dedicated over an hour to playing through it uninterrupted. I felt underwhelmed at the end. So on Wednesday I fired up the Spoiler Section Podcast and listened to everyone's opinion. I am continually surprised at how people describe their reactions to this game. Let me say that I have been emotionally affected by games in the past. When I finished Journey I just sat and stared at the title screen for quite awhile before I turned it off and laid down for awhile. But this, totally different. I can see how people can find metaphors for depression, OCD, loneliness, or various other issues in this game. Maybe I don't feel as strongly about this game as others because I haven't experienced any of these issues, but my feeling is that the game was trying to hint at these issues while cramming them down my throat at the same time. It is artsy, and very "up it's own ass" as others have put it. A couple of my thoughts:
1. It is definitely not a game, it is digital environmental theater as it has been coined. I'm still not sure how I feel about this as a genre. I play games to have fun, and to escape the mundane or crappy bits of reality. The Beginner's Guide was neither fun nor an escape. Maybe this just isn't a genre for me as I didn't enjoy this or Gone Home which many people also rave about.
2. (SPOILERS - Sorry I don't know how to do that properly)
Anyway, I requested a refund for The Beginner's Guide today. I can't say that they falsely advertised anything to me, because they don't really say what the game is about going in. But ultimately I didn't enjoy it, and don't feel that it was an experience worth $8. I know many will disagree with me, and that's okay. I'm sure I felt much more strongly about Journey than many other people did. That's what makes games great, and the most interesting thing about the Beginner's Guide to me, is how they can have such a different impact on us as gamers and people.
Thanks to all all of you in this discussion and a special thanks to everyone on the normal CC who recommended it. I originally had no interest in this because I didn't enjoy playing The Stanley Parable (although I had a very strong reaction to it!) but you all sold it well enough on the non-spoiler section to make me fork over a few bucks and play it last night. The game is something I'm still processing and will probably be coming to grips with for a while yet. The spoiler section gave me a lot to think about and only helped add to how much I admire this game. It's easily one of my most memorable gaming experiences.
So quick question... is this a game that you buy for someone who may be struggling for depression, or a game that you buy for that person's friends? (... asking for a friend).
Neither. A video game is not a substitute for actual help is at least one clear theme of TBG.
Gravey, I'm never sure, on a scale of 1-10, just how serious you are when you post. – Minarchist
Of course, assuming other appropriate avenues for health are being productively followed. I'm more thinking about this as idle curiosity than anything else, wondering if there's value in there as a tool for communication.
I don't know, I feel like the TBG tells a very particular, personal story, namely Wreden's struggle after making The Stanley Parable. Depression Quest (from what I've read about it) seems like it be more suited to what you're asking about.
Gravey, I'm never sure, on a scale of 1-10, just how serious you are when you post. – Minarchist
It's pretty clear from the many discussions around TBG that it certainly resonates more clearly with those who have first or second-hand experience of depression.
You've never known true joy until you've shaken a lich stick at someone.
Nevermind.
Contact me elsewhere.