GWJ Conference Call Episode 467

Donation Drive 2015!, Forza 6, Destiny: Taken King, Party Hard, Sonic Dreams Collection, Pre-Shark Jumping Franchises, Your Emails and More!

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This week Shawn, Elysium, and Allen talk franchises jumping the shark and whatever weird stuff Allen is playing.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.

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Comments

Ahh, I do enjoy the elevated levels of bat-sh*t insanity when Allen Cook is on the show!

00:02:30 Donation Drive
00:05:12 Forza 6
00:14:25 Destiny: The Taken King
00:22:22 Party Hard
00:27:22 Sonic Dreams Collection
00:34:18 Franchises that Jumped the Shark
00:55:12 Your Emails

I love how Certis kept saying "Nathan Fillion" and then surreptitiously switched to "Nolan North" hoping no one would say anything.

Interesting topic about franchises. I have felt this a bit with the Assassin's Creed games, but I don't think I've ever felt it with others. Actually, maybe with the Batman games. I loved Arkham Asylum, Arkham City just left me feeling "meh" and Arkham Origins felt like the exact same game over again. Safe to say I won't be getting Arkham Knight.

Loved Elysium's response to the email on babies and parenting, just loved it. It had that not-so-subtle undertone all parents have when speaking to new or soon to be parents (and which I struggle to rein in). You know what I mean, that ooh-boy-are-you-in-for-a-ride-you-have-no-idea-how-tough-it'll-be-but-sure-it'll-be-fun undertone. Reminded me of that time Rabbit mentioned those first years and called them the "Dark Ages."

I love how Certis kept saying "Nathan Fillion" and then surreptitiously switched to "Nolan North" hoping no one would say anything.

You wound me, madam. Fillion does the voice of an Exo who plays a fairly active plot role in Taken King. North does the voice of Ghost who replaced Dinklage.

I understand the confusion!

Our little girl just hit the five month mark and I have to say that Elysium spoke the absolute truth. Once she goes down for a nap or is set in her bouncy chair I can play whatever I like, but I need to be able to walk away from it at a moment's notice. She cries and the laptop closes, period. Anything with a story or a long time between checkpoints is right out. Personally I've found Marvel Heroes to be a great fit as a game I can walk away from with no progress lost, but most phone games are also pretty forgiving on closing and resuming with little disruption.

Above all enjoy the time you have with the little one, get sleep when you can, and if there are any amazing new releases that you just can't play now, they will still be there (and probably cheaper) when your schedule stabilizes.

Party Hard, with no visual context whatsoever, sounds horrifying. Can't wait to actually see it.

Edit: ICEWIND DALE <3

Certis wrote:
I love how Certis kept saying "Nathan Fillion" and then surreptitiously switched to "Nolan North" hoping no one would say anything.

You wound me, madam. Fillion does the voice of an Exo who plays a fairly active plot role in Taken King. North does the voice of Ghost who replaced Dinklage.

I understand the confusion!

Agh, I stand corrected then. In my defense, all I know about Destiny I've heard on podcasts, so I'm unreliable at best. On that matter.

There's a very good reason why you don't use the pants off of a dead person.

I would love to play Destiny. Sadly, the only system I have that can play it is a PS3 and that has 80+ second load times (timed it myself in the demo, confirmed on youtube videos) between the main base area and others. That means I will never go back to it there, and I am not inclined to ever pick up another MS or Sony console again. Wish it would get ported to PC, but I'll be ok if it does not.

Rat Boy wrote:

There's a very good reason why you don't use the pants off of a dead person.

Poop. It's poop, isn't it?

Amoebic wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

There's a very good reason why you don't use the pants off of a dead person.

Poop. It's poop, isn't it?

IMAGE(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3d/33/bb/3d33bbb8ed359cf2d8de2ea689b8ca00.jpg)

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Arkham games. Arkham Asylum was about as close as I've ever been to a perfect game. I beat it and then spent a month collecting riddler puzzles and beating combat challenges.

Every sequel has been, well, just blah. Arkham City was underwhelming, and I never finished Arkham Origins. Heck, I haven't even bought Arkham Knoght, and I don't feel like I've missed anything,

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Arkham games. Arkham Asylum was about as close as I've ever been to a perfect game. I beat it and then spent a month collecting riddler puzzles and beating combat challenges.

Every sequel has been, well, just blah. Arkham City was underwhelming, and I never finished Arkham Origins. Heck, I haven't even bought Arkham Knoght, and I don't feel like I've missed anything,

I liked City, but I felt zero drive to get 100%. I skipped AO and AK entirely. I was just really disappointed in the need to shoehorn the Joker into everything. Batman has one of the, if not indeed the, best rogues galleries around. I know the Joker is classic, but I was really excited for a game with Black Mask as the villain.

tl;dr: I agree. Batman fits.

I want to play Destiny, because a few of my non-gaming friends have picked up PS4's for their kids, and have gotten into Destiny. Alas, I don't have a PS4 and can't really justify as it will likely collect dust like my PS3.

Megaman has to be in this conversation, because that's classically the iterated game that regularly jumps the shark once a series gets too long in the tooth. I'd say the original Megaman series jumped the shark at about 6 - I think that's when they introduced a weaponized soccer ball. The newer Megaman 9 and 10 recently made in the original series go back to roots successfully.

Parent who's just reached the 2 year mark. Everything Elysium said rings true, and I'll add two other things to be aware of.

1. You just have less time to yourself and you have to deal with that and shape what you play around it. I'm told it comes back.

2. When you do get those windows of time don't forget about your partner. It can be easy for a gamer to neglect their partner a bit at this stage. Depending on your relationship you may both be in a good and understanding space. Just keep that communication up.

As for games, I found anything turn based was great and mobile games in general are good for picking up and putting down quick.
It's only recently (last few months) I've been able to return to online multiplayer in Rocket League, and its been great, though it's only feasible due to the short somewhat casual nature of the game (that or I've really been letting folks down going afk at times).
Also, I played a LOT of Hearthstone.

Just for the sake of including it, The Myst series. Myst and Riven were priceless. Exile was good, but started the decline. Revelations had a promising ret-con of part of the story and I enjoyed it, but the puzzles felt bloated and overly obscure. Then End of Ages just fell right off the track. The shift to cgi actors just killed it for me, not to mention that cursed stone tablet thing-- ugh. Huge Myst fan (probably own 8 copies of Myst in various iterations and platforms), and I still have never finished 5, despite owning the collectors edition and two or three digital versions. Probably just need to walk through with the prima guide in hand just to have finished it at last.

Exile was the best in the series and I will fight you for it!!!
Pistols! At dawn! Or dusk, whatever floats your boat.

Amoebic wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

There's a very good reason why you don't use the pants off of a dead person.

Poop. It's poop, isn't it?

And pee. Pretty much everything goes.

Socks are ok thought right? and hats? Socks and hats.

Yay! Thread of the week

With Assassin's Creed: Unity it looked like they were taking a fresh approach to everything and heading in a new direction. I was sure Unity it would revitalise the series and set it up for a long run of successful games in the future (That's how die hard Sonic fans must feel each time they announce a new game.) In the end it just seemed like the same game only with a bit of next gen polish and a few new ideas around the edges. I ended up skipping it. Fortunately, that means I've taken enough of a break from the world of AC to be excited for Syndicate.

Having incredible sales, as the AC series does, probably makes it harder to change direction. There must be an enormous concern that they could inadvertently do away with the one element that was the true secret of the series's success.

An example of a series that has been revitalised successfully, at least for me personally, is Splinter Cell. Black List was brilliant. They absolutely nailed what was appealing about the early games while incorporating the best elements of games like Conviction. It also introducing new ideas that were very smart and well thought out. I hope the next game in the series takes off.

troubleshot wrote:

Parent who's just reached the 2 year mark. Everything Elysium said rings true, and I'll add two other things to be aware of.

1. You just have less time to yourself and you have to deal with that and shape what you play around it. I'm told it comes back.

It does come back, but then your kids get older and start competing with you for the gaming resources. Nowadays getting home from work early isn't so much about having a little time to myself as it is about beating them to the XBox. I've actively denied them access to PC games to this point just so I'll have one last refuge that I don't have to compete for.

I'm just going to say it, because I know everyone thinks it but noone wants to believe it.

The Legend of Zelda jumped the shark with Wind Waker.

It wasn't the art style that did it, although I think that's an easy scape goat. It wasn't the odd cinematic storytelling elements, although that probably got a bit drawn out at times.

There were just so many bad design choices that went into that game, for the sake of "something different", that put the franchise on the downward spiral that ultimately gave us Skyward Sword.

First, if you're going to make an open world game, give us a world. Navigating the huge empty sea was a complete mind-numbing timesink of an experience, punctuated with random barrels and the occasional landmark. The story was disjointed, a hurry-up-and-wait that earlier versions of the franchise could get away with because of all the extra side-stuff that required your attention. Nope, now you're stuck on an island and you can't leave until you execute these specific steps. Now you have to find a pixel in a million square miles of swirly blue. And don't get me started on the dungeon design.

I wanted to like it, and part of me will always think fondly of that game. Twilight Princess was deeply flawed for different reasons, and didn't quite get us back to where we wanted the series to be. And just don't mention Skyward Sword - it never happened, lets move on. I want to have hope for Zelda U, but at the rate of development it might as well be called Zelda NX and will probably suffer in the same way that Twilight Princess did, doing the splits Van Damn style between two generations of console.

Is it any wonder all of the best Zelda experiences of the last ten years have been 3DS ports of SNES/N64 titles?

Stick a fork in her, she's done.

My little guy is about to turn 3 months old and I'd like to echo Elysium and a couple of others here by saying that I've put plenty of time into gaming over the last 9 months. With my wife falling asleep really early in the evenings when pregnant and now the little one typically falling asleep between 8 and 9 PM, I can jump on a game and get an uninterrupted 2 hours of gameplay from 9 to 11. I try to keep this to three or four times a week because, as troubleshot said, I block out the other days to focus on my wife and make sure I spend some quality time with just her.

Unfortunately, the game that I decided to get addicted to during this time is Destiny. A lot of the longer missions that require large fireteams are just out the window for me. Raids especially. The main reason is that it can sometimes take a while to find 6 people to raid with and that cuts into my limited play time that and yelling into a mic while they are sleeping isn't a great idea. I was able to complete all the Moments of Triumph but that was by special request where I let my wife know ahead of time that I planned on completing the hardest difficulty of the Prison of Elders (took me 3 hours). As long as it was on the schedule and all parties agreed to the block of time, I could get it done. Now I just have one good friend that I roll on missions with and he understands when I go AFK and drop everything because the little guy is hungry.

Also, I am incredibly disappointed with the lack of co-op in Halo 5. My son has a half-brother (mothers are twins) that is close in age and they will be spending tons of time together in person. Couch co-op gaming was a huge part of my childhood and I'd hate it if our kids couldn't experience similar fun times. Right now, if my kid was 12 years old and I was at the store looking at getting either Halo 5, Destiny or the Borderlands collection, I'd go Borderlands all the way because of the split screen co-op feature.

senator_FuenteZ wrote:

. My son has a half-brother (mothers are twins) that is close in age and they will be spending tons of time together in person.

Wait, does this mean you have a child by each twin or that the sons are actually cousins? Twins' children are cousins not siblings.

Weird aside, but this one stuck out to me.

Games!

SallyNasty wrote:
senator_FuenteZ wrote:

. My son has a half-brother (mothers are twins) that is close in age and they will be spending tons of time together in person.

Wait, does this mean you have a child by each twin or that the sons are actually cousins? Twins' children are cousins not siblings.

Weird aside, but this one stuck out to me.

Games!

Technically, I think he means his wife and his sister-in-law are identical twins, making the poster's son and his sister-in-law's son half-brothers. I... hadn't thought that would be applicable... but it kind of is in a way, I suppose...

What Demosthenes said... Their mom's are identical twins. We usually just call them half-brothers in a joking fashion and might not have been the best place to use the term in a forum of strangers. I really only mentioned it in my comment to highlight that they are likely to grow up being very close and will probably spend plenty of time in front of one TV playing co-op games together.

Sometimes we'll use the term "brother-cousins"... might be a little more accurate, maybe.

Small kids and turn-based strategy games go well together. Civs 2-4 and SMAC got me through the infancy and toddler years of all three of my kids. I played other stuff too, but those were the go to games for me at that time.

senator_FuenteZ wrote:

What Demosthenes said... Their mom's are identical twins. We usually just call them half-brothers in a joking fashion and might not have been the best place to use the term in a forum of strangers. I really only mentioned it in my comment to highlight that they are likely to grow up being very close and will probably spend plenty of time in front of one TV playing co-op games together.

Sometimes we'll use the term "brother-cousins"... might be a little more accurate, maybe.

Hah! Np man, sorry to put you under the microscope:)

Alz wrote:

I'm just going to say it, because I know everyone thinks it but noone wants to believe it.

The Legend of Zelda jumped the shark with Wind Waker.
...

Is it any wonder all of the best Zelda experiences of the last ten years have been 3DS ports of SNES/N64 titles?

Stick a fork in her, she's done.

A Link Between Worlds would like to have a word with you. In my opinion, it is the best Zelda game in the last decade, and it is an original work.

For some old school shark jumping, I would like to point to Might and Magic. I really got into M&M III, and 4 and 5 (Xeen) were great. 6 made the jump to a fully 3d world. and it actually worked out very well, but the rest just seemed to slowly decline.

Aristophan wrote:
Alz wrote:

I'm just going to say it, because I know everyone thinks it but noone wants to believe it.

The Legend of Zelda jumped the shark with Wind Waker.
...

Is it any wonder all of the best Zelda experiences of the last ten years have been 3DS ports of SNES/N64 titles?

Stick a fork in her, she's done.

A Link Between Worlds would like to have a word with you. In my opinion, it is the best Zelda game in the last decade, and it is an original work.

For some old school shark jumping, I would like to point to Might and Magic. I really got into M&M III, and 4 and 5 (Xeen) were great. 6 made the jump to a fully 3d world. and it actually worked out very well, but the rest just seemed to slowly decline.

Ultima is another franchise that jumped the shark. U7 was brilliant, as was everything up to that one. U8 was this:
IMAGE(http://pilateslogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/70753349-33a5-4b1f-b1f8-4d49a13381e6.gif)

U9 of course was this:
IMAGE(http://www.michaelbransonsmith.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fonzie-doesnt-make-it.gif)
One could argue that 8 and 9 were both that.

Boudreaux wrote:
troubleshot wrote:

Parent who's just reached the 2 year mark. Everything Elysium said rings true, and I'll add two other things to be aware of.

1. You just have less time to yourself and you have to deal with that and shape what you play around it. I'm told it comes back.

It does come back, but then your kids get older and start competing with you for the gaming resources. Nowadays getting home from work early isn't so much about having a little time to myself as it is about beating them to the XBox. I've actively denied them access to PC games to this point just so I'll have one last refuge that I don't have to compete for.

I had not thought of this. Hopefully we can afford at least two PC's in our household by that point... But maybe not if a console is in the mix... Hopefully the low spec indie game market is still strong in 10-15 years. Or that mobile processors are powerful enough to stream AAA to our tv's. Probably dreaming. Boardgames! Maybe that can be the solution and get some quality time in to boot.