TvW Close Look Meta Dialogue Catch-All

karmajay wrote:
They block relentlessly. They've written their own tools for blocking. Created networks dedicated to blocking.
And thats fine as long as you're protecting your own accounts. Frankly if you're going to be offended by my ideas, I'd rather you block me from your personal internet experience and we won't have to deal with each other.

Sometimes I don't understand where you are going with things. In the 1st quote you act like people blocking others from their accounts is bad. In the second quote you talk about how it is good and you don't care.

Who cares if people use block lists? It is not censorship. You can still post whatever you want and all your friends can read it whenever they want.

GG has the right of it.

If google makes a tool that allows you to eliminate sites or names from your searching, how will that affect anyone? The people/sites that are being blocked aren't being censored. There stuff is still out there and other people can read their stuff.

Depends on how Google sells it. "If you sign up for this service, you'll never see haters and trolls ever again" with that being defined as people who say things this group of women doesn't like.

If you haven't been following the story, you won't know why they're really on that list.

TheGameguru wrote:

Free Speech doesn't mean I have to listen to you.

Would you please block me already and stop listening to me then?

EDIT: I see this forum doesn't have that system like a lot of other forums do. Oh well.

RoughneckGeek wrote:
WideAndNerdy wrote:
RoughneckGeek wrote:
WideAndNerdy wrote:
RoughneckGeek wrote:

Randi Harper is the one that designed the ggautoblocker so I'm not sure why that would be considered ironic. The logic that little tool is built on is the most significant step forward I've seen yet. She'd definitely be someone whose brain I'd want to pick if I was designing anti-harassment tools.

The logic being "if you associate with someone we don't like, you get blocked."

Whether you like Christina Hoff Sommers or not, what has she done to deserve being blocked by gg autoblocker? What did Liana Kerzner do? They're both blocked.

That isn't what it does at all. It has a source list of 7 folks. That list has been revised multiple times so that the common link between them all is GG to minimize the number of false positives. If you follow 2 or more folks on that list then you get blocked. If someone is blocked in error because they follow a handful of the list there's also an appeals process to get whitelisted.

It's the most ingenious solution I've seen to date. If you know of a better one, I'd love to hear it.

Guilt by association then. How about this? If a person engages in harrassment you put them on the list.

I briefly participated in Second Life. What we did was create an object you could put on your land. If someone came and made trouble, you could ban then as normal but the object would also register a strike against that person. If they got registered a few different places, they'd go on the global list and be banned for every land owner using the device. You could white list people on your land at your discretion. You could also set things so that young accounts couldn't visit your land. If we did guilt by association, we'd miss a lot of people who should be on the list and list a lot of innocent people.

I sure hope Google is smarter than that.

The phrase "guilt by association" doesn't fit because no accusation is being leveled at the folks blocked by the tool. The tool doesn't build and block a list of harassers, it blocks a list of folks that follow a few key people known to incite harassment. (And per RangerRick's post, my information is outdated because she's using heuristic data she's been compiling since before she made the ggautoblocker available to make the tool even more sophisticated.)

Your solution already exists in the form of shared block lists. It proved ineffective at stemming the amount of harassment incoming which is why so many folks switched to using ggautoblocker or using both solutions at once. Again, folks bothered by the fact they're blocked have an easy solution providing they haven't participated or encouraged others to participate in harassment. Your solution lacks a corrective mechanism like that.

And has already been said, this aside is already pointless. People are creating and seeking out these tools because abusive assholes have created a need for them. How and why people choose to filter their own social media feed is their own prerogative. I still don't understand how Randi Harper's inclusion in this effort is ironic.

You're going to keep asking and I'm going to keep resisting why till I post the instances of her being abusive but they'll come from sources you don't like and we'll argue about that.

Lets skip that.

I wish everyone who has replied to this so far here was able to block me and that you'd go ahead and do so. You're all perfectly comfortable with this because its the "right" group of people who think the "right" things and they're "punching up" which excuses everything.

WideAndNerdy wrote:

You're going to keep asking and I'm going to keep resisting why till I post the instances of her being abusive but they'll come from sources you don't like and we'll argue about that.

Did you say something earlier about her being abusive and I missed it? I was reading pretty fast, but this is the first time I noticed you saying that she was responsible for being abusive. Has she done anything to upset you other than creating the ggautoblocker?

WideAndNerdy wrote:

I wish everyone who has replied to this so far here was able to block me and that you'd go ahead and do so. You're all perfectly comfortable with this because its the "right" group of people who think the "right" things and they're "punching up" which excuses everything.

It's not about thinking the right things. It's never been about thinking the right things. The reason why things like the autoblocker are attractive is because it's damn wearying to have to deal with large groups of random people spamming you. Particularly when each individual tweet doesn't add up to much but the mass of them form a social DDOS attack. It'd be the same if they were sending random photos of puppies, though the threshold of putting up with abuse is likely lower.

I've got a pretty good filter on my email, getting rid of the spam. The autoblocker is just a spam filter. No one is obligated to listen to anyone else. If someone chooses not to listen, what, exactly, have you lost?

Around here, the moderation policy (as I discern it; can't speak for the mods) has been that either something is acceptable to post here or it isn't. If you're hurting people sufficiently to warrant blocking, you're likely skirting close to a ban. Which mostly works in a small, moderated community.

Some people have compulsions that cause them to go back to keep arguing, or would rather not read something that hurts them. So a technical solution helps. And, of course, Twitter is totally self-moderated, with relatively poor native tools for managing what other people send at you.

I'm guessing, based on what you've said, that you keep feeling compelled to return to these threads and argue some more. So the lack of a block feature interferes with your compulsion.

Gremlin wrote:
WideAndNerdy wrote:

You're going to keep asking and I'm going to keep resisting why till I post the instances of her being abusive but they'll come from sources you don't like and we'll argue about that.

Did you say something earlier about her being abusive and I missed it? I was reading pretty fast, but this is the first time I noticed you saying that she was responsible for being abusive. Has she done anything to upset you other than creating the ggautoblocker?

WideAndNerdy wrote:

I wish everyone who has replied to this so far here was able to block me and that you'd go ahead and do so. You're all perfectly comfortable with this because its the "right" group of people who think the "right" things and they're "punching up" which excuses everything.

It's not about thinking the right things. It's never been about thinking the right things. The reason why things like the autoblocker are attractive is because it's damn wearying to have to deal with large groups of random people spamming you. Particularly when each individual tweet doesn't add up to much but the mass of them form a social DDOS attack. It'd be the same if they were sending random photos of puppies, though the threshold of putting up with abuse is likely lower.

I've got a pretty good filter on my email, getting rid of the spam. The autoblocker is just a spam filter. No one is obligated to listen to anyone else. If someone chooses not to listen, what, exactly, have you lost?

Around here, the moderation policy (as I discern it; can't speak for the mods) has been that either something is acceptable to post here or it isn't. If you're hurting people sufficiently to warrant blocking, you're likely skirting close to a ban. Which mostly works in a small, moderated community.

Some people have compulsions that cause them to go back to keep arguing, or would rather not read something that hurts them. So a technical solution helps. And, of course, Twitter is totally self-moderated, with relatively poor native tools for managing what other people send at you.

I'm guessing, based on what you've said, that you keep feeling compelled to return to these threads and argue some more. So the lack of a block feature interferes with your compulsion.

If that filter includes CHS and Liana, I question her methods and fear for what Google might do with them.

We're talking about two feminists who's only crime is not being exactly the right kind of feminist.

WideAndNerdy wrote:

If that filter includes CHS and Liana, I question her methods and fear for what Google might do with them.

We're talking about two feminists who's only crime is not being exactly the right kind of feminist.

No, they're on the list because they were linked with known harassers. At least the original list; are they still on the updated list?

At this point your argument consists entirely of speculating on how Google is going to apply all this, based solely on your perception of the people associated with the announcement.

Gremlin wrote:
WideAndNerdy wrote:

If that filter includes CHS and Liana, I question her methods and fear for what Google might do with them.

We're talking about two feminists who's only crime is not being exactly the right kind of feminist.

No, they're on the list because they were linked with known harassers. At least the original list; are they still on the updated list?

At this point your argument consists entirely of speculating on how Google is going to apply all this, based solely on your perception of the people associated with the announcement.

Better safe than sorry. I'll gladly be mocked as a tinfoil hat wearing street crazy if it does anything to deter any possible draconian action on the part of Google, real or imagined.

In the meantime, all hail the right thinkers. Google Ideas are the Right Ideas.

No one said that.

Putting this here since the other topic was closed. You ever go to the trouble of finding some questions and then answer them only to find that the topic was just closed? I have, thanks Certis.


Was there something in this video that surprised you, and if so what was it?

No

Was there something absent from this video that surprised you, and if so what was it?
No

Compared to how you went into this exercise, do you find yourself more inclined to agree with Sarkeesian, less inclined, or about the same and why?
Same, I didn't find anything interesting about this video. Just kind of stated the obvious.

Any other general thoughts or questions you'd like to ask of the group?
You should have probably put the questions in the original post so they would be easier to find after a day or so.

I felt the beats were to small on about half of them. I thought many of them could have been combined to form a complete thought. This isn't a problem with Anita but with the way the beats were posted. This is minor thing though.

I think the main topic was lost or derailed to have a back and forth with one person. I'm not blaming that one person because in my opinion many of you throwing gas on the fire. I did it once or twice myself. Might I suggest before you comment in the second video thread ask yourself is what you are about to say related to what Anita said or shown in the video. If not then it should probably be in this thread. Though I found the thread interesting it was kind of a chore at times with all the derails.

DSGamer wrote:

No one said that.

I'm gonna be honest - I want to make fun of someone's pattern recognition here but I can't pick where to start.

Bloo Driver wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

No one said that.

I'm gonna be honest - I want to make fun of someone's pattern recognition here but I can't pick where to start.

My healing can only begin when you correct me.

Anita is blameless and right.

IMAGE(data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxAQDw8PEBAQEBANDw4PDw8PDhAQDw8PFBQWFxQSFBQYHCggGBomHhQVIjEhJSkrLi4uFx8zODMsNystLisBCgoKDg0OGxAQGiwkHyQtLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwvLCwsLCwsLCwsLC0sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLSwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAHwBlwMBEQACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEBAAIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwj/xABAEAACAQIDBQUECAUBCQAAAAAAAQIDEQQSIQUTMUFRBiJhcZEHFIGxIzJSoaLR4fBCYnKCkjM0NUNTc4Oys8H/xAAbAQEBAQADAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGB//EADQRAQACAQIEAgkCBgMBAAAAAAABAhEDEgQFITFBURMyYYGRscHR8CJxFCNSoeHxBjNCNP/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A9eew+UAAAAAABd0hMLuQNZhCKhRAAECIBAMlOwZmGyMkys4UDGcLgiXHlGwbWnOz+YSYc2hQlU0ir+PJfE4tXWppRm0uTR4fU1pxSPs7HC9nOdST8lovz+R5upzK0+pHxevp8spHXUtn2R2+LsqWyKMUllT89fmdS3F61v8A1PyduvCaFe1I9/X5tj2ZS+xH/GP5Gf4nV/qn4tfw+j/RX4Q42I2JTktLxv0ZzU4/Wr3nP7uG/L+Ht4Y/afu6bGbEqQ1j316P9Tv6XMKW6W6T/Z0NblupXrpzuj+/+XGtbTod95UxOcONUnd+AaiEirhXIhCwYmWQEcrAw1udyNRDENKBQKACqBSClTMKMM7gqbpAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASwXdKOIXcxsRcoFQCAAIEZxq9SphsTDJONwNuztmurLXSC4vr4I6fFcVGjGI7vQ4Pg5153T0rH9/ZD1GGowpxSirWPCvqWvO609X0FaVpXbWMQ251qYyuGFTERik5NRXWTSX3gaHtTD/8AOpauy+lhx9S4kw3qonZrVPmrWBgclqMmHXbS2fGou73ZdeT8H4Hb4bi7aU4nrHl9nV4rg6a8Z7W8/u81KjJScWrNaNdD3q2i0bq9nzt6TS01tGJhuhGxpxTLJsDVKr0DWGBFAKFUCgVIJmGSiVNy2CbpUIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0Bi4ILmWLphdzFxZFzDECFBO3ADlYOLqTUOvF9FzZxa2rGlSbS5NDh51tSKR+Q9NRioJRjZJLQ+YvqTe02l9XTTrSsVr2hk6mnExlrDwvtC7d+5J0MO1LFSSzPLmVCLWjtwc+Gj4J3fJPl06bmorl832dtOdeVSdSo62Kabi6s3UeXVvLrZ+CvZHNMYcsRGOjh7P2nKFS1SclLSzvwvrz+QmPJIx4voGztqVqcFVw9W0lZypNudKqvGL4S8rMk1iYZmIz1e07O9oIYym2u5VhZVab5fzR6xOG0Ycc1w7fOYymHA2lh80XNfWjxtzj+h6XL+J2W2T2n5vO5lwvpNP0lfWr/eP8OklVXLX5HuPnsNTk3xDQBSDJRYMslTKm5koIJlkkEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMshMtbDIMmyUyjJtksVNspYGJAmJAAAAAAAAAAAAAjQGLpoLlg6TC5drselkg5vjN5V/Sv1+R4nNNb9UUjwe/ynRxSdTz6e6P8APydhvDyMvWw4O1tpxw9CrXkr7qLaV7ZpcIx+LaXxN1jdOCej87doK0p1VOpmlUrzlUm+bbeqS8W/uO9WOi+UPpvZbszhlu5uLztJpqTVmdfMzLsYiIesx3YjCYmm47qMZ5bRmkrq3A5q0mXBbUw8jiOx2LwMakoKVSKi2lC0pP15EnNe6xtt2dVsba81VhiKdlODcW1pGpHnCa5X/fDRNcpMeD6vhMbGrThUjwmr+XVHUtGJwxDdGrYkWwuHRYzDOFSUUtL3j/S9UfVcPq+k04s+T4rS9Dq2p4eH7NapM5nWyzVJBMskkEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAMSWC4lbA2yZSZXbK5Bk2SZBldjNEbgYEAjAjCAEAgEKmEBiC4TEJmBtgzA2mcqbTODabwG03iCbV3iBg3i6gwZ11CYdvmyxhHpCLfm9T5Tjb7ta0+19lwent0KR7IYur4nVy7OHifaHtJ5sHhIy/1Z1K9RdYUovKn5ylf+07XDx3sxbvh8zxM3PaPC6pU4a8UnZSv5987VulE0+t31HYuNlSownPDuUEovMqsFUS65P1OGsRHdz2zPZ7jYu1aFeGelLMuDXCUX0kuRz1mHXtE+Ll47aFGEVvKkYZtEpNXk+iXF/A1aYmGKxMS+A9qKywm0cVCm/o6zjXgssopZ75k4tXWqen5nFEdHYnEvofYTHuVGUG/qNON3qk+P3o6+vHaWMdXpd74nWy3hr2i1anLrFr/F/qfQcqvnTmPz86Pnec0xqVt5x8v9uFnXU9R42DeLqFxJvEDCbxAwbwLtM4NpnBtMxF2wuYG2C4MQoXEAMKRVAoBAUKoFQFAi4IEAEAgEYQAgEAgEAgAogECIwIAAgRCiAdrXnbJ/06b/Cj4/i+mtb95facL10aT7I+TU6h14l2MPlfbPFuW2JLlQw9OmvByi5t+skejoR/Lhwz3lwdk4J1cTXskpPJGL14KN/XW39pq89IhvTjEzL1mB7K4irSrU6yqqdRx3VZNZKUbq/dzK97Csx5F8zPd6LsTsmeDxO5nV3t6bzPLZXT0bXW1i19Y1OtGztLsrERnVxNCVN1ssXRU4yalrrFtfVSV+txtjvKReZiIrD5P7QMRiKuIw0sTBRqqg02uE0qjyv7/vNUnpJeP1Q9J7OMXavKPKdOa4/xRcXf0ucHER+nKR3fQnUOjlyRBj9adH/u/wDkj3+T+pb3fV8/zr1qR+/0cE9h4igUgoUAoFAoFChBQKBQKAAqAqCqgKgKBFwBABAIwIwARAIBAIAAhRAiAQBYIqgwmYXdeJTcyVNBMqkEb8ZLuUpdY5H5xf6nynM6bNefa+y5Xffw1fZ0+HRxN54nnxL0Jh8o2/d7VxT8reNoRR6ml/1w6895Oztd08RLzUn43WvyZdTs5NN9m2TtaDpryFLM3o8/sntXGOPquVGbhUahFpXldOySjxFbRE5atp5riJe7wmLVSlGbpyhnTkoVFaaV+a5HNFomHXmkxPd8d9skVPG4SMUrqhWlK1laOaDTfhpIzHaW/J1PYlyp4yC1tlUv8lKLa8NF6HFrxmkrXu+l7zxPLy7GHPxWm7hzhTjddJS1fzPqeV6e3Qz5vk+cam7Xx5R+f2w0NHpPJYumguWLpeINyZGRcpZhcgVQKBQoBSCgUCgAKgqoCoCoCgRcAR2AIBGBAgBAIBAAEKhYJugylTcZUEzK2CZUAAAxlUQXDXKq/ILhvw30lOpS4yX0tPxkl3o/FHj834ffSLx4Pd5LxEVvOnPj1j6/f4uu3h8xEvp5h8y7Q1Mu1Kr0tJK/k1HT/wCHr6M504dS0dZcLZNRe8tX+vTVvOGlvRo5NSP0rp93u8PipRprczgqiWu8zOL14KxxQ5Z6uRsXGV1PerFYHPe7jVwmScH1hJNt8WtTcTHm5vR0mPP3vZYXaNapFOqqcXG7z0puUJx6pNXXLQbsutNK1nEPkvbPFe8Y/ETi7qnGnh7trXJeTSXS83f+k1E9GZiMsuzUkpQnJ3nenF63tBNtK/m7mdTrWYSK9X0XZlLeVNfqQ783/KuXxPM0NOdS8Vhza2pGnSbWZYiq5TlJ6OTb8uiPttOkUpFY8HwurqTq3m8+KRqPzNuLDZGogmGYQAARoGTKguUyhdxYi7oAoRVAoFAoBAVBVAqAoEXAEdgCAQCBACFTdCDCbgYTdIVMyBAAAAARsDF1OgXa1uTZGsMSjKMGwky30u6046NO6Zm1YtE1ntJW9q2i1e8NW1cNe9en9V/6sV/w5Pn/AEs+Q4/g7aF8x2fb8v42vE6ft8YfFe0+Iz4qpU6t+n8P3Hc0q4rELM56uqw9ZqtT11Umk/O7RyzGapE4s9xsnaWSSdSN49eXxOthzvdbP29s5RWelQvzlKlBtfFo1ExDE1tPi6jtL2spzTpYGMpu+V1acXKKlzjH7T+5F2pnD5rtfBYum+9B0abve7+kk29cz4tnLW1e3ixMW7+DtuytCpOpSjGLvN2S/fmcWp7HJE9Or7CoxpQ3MXeTeatJcHL7K8Ed/lfBeir6S3efz/T5/m/Hekn0VO0d/t92qUUz13hZaZ02g1EsQrJOxDDNVOpU2s0wyoAAAAAAZBhrdITC7lC7oUiiAqCqgKgKgIuAI7I5IYTMJmLhN8McwwzvlLlTMgQAAAAAAAAjkFwwcmFwxZGkAJBGyNPqVmZZhGFSpbzCxDh4vHSoU6lWL1jCWj1Um1omuaODiK0tpzuh2uEveurXZOMzj3PjG0LSk2n3cz155Ukl+R4fi+vjs6vNetDLwjKLfknqzkj1WJ9aHvKFJZEmdZ2Jea28qedd3uw4/wAz8X0OSmfAt26udsraVSOSUrpK2SCfBcrXvYkxGU8HppYnerNOCcmleVSWeUV6Wj8zErWMziHadn8Zh6T0ShNq0ZtcF0T5PxObhb6PpP5n+PevMeW8dPDzbRrnziPWx7I/J8noEz6LOXwcxMTie7fTqX8wxMNgRhKn0CxLW1YjQFVAZKTDOGSkVMMggAAAAAAAAuFzK5iYXfLJSGGt6qSJhd0MkFaTThAAAAAAAAAABcGGLkGtrFsjWMIBAAFjAMzLYlYrKgYVKltFxCxDQw0832rxDb3OZQhGO8rTckpNa2pxXjZ3fzOlxd5xt/P2eny7TiZ34zOcR9Z93g+ZYrvz0so30+ylpwPJy+nrSZcl0Y5YQgrubu5W4pPj6jPTKTWYth6ilTe6g/Cz81ocLbg4zZkc8VK0u/GenNuMWk/VGq26FusttbZzWJtbuxevl08NST2KvpfY3Y1LJGvVUajqQtCEknCEOGqfFv8AfM5tOkTGZdfV1LVtivRy9t9hqVVOeG+hq8d3f6GWnBL+B+K08DOpw0T1r0enwfPNTTmK636o8/GPu8xsSpOFV4WqnGV3GMZ6OFTlD48vFrqcnAcVOlf0d+3ylP8AkXKtPi9D+L0OtojOY/8AVfvH3iXdH0D85bqdTkwzMNgRGgMJQI1EsQ0AVAVMGGSkVnayTDOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALFZQjW1CKhVQCMIJBGcYlZmWQQA1znyQWIaQ0sI3YJef7fVKdPC5nTjKrUkqVOUlfJdNyl6J/Fo6XHWiNPt1no9jkOjbV4nv+mIzPt8Ij4/2fNqWGlUlaKcm3ZWWl/kjx320xWkeT0OBwS0i1aVONOL/wAU/m2cdp6uhaYm0y5W055MPJLRtuK/u0EeTPtatmUN5hpTzJShCFm7azp8becfkuhPFZlzsRiE4V6ietSklBr7blK/pdiJ8DDh4XF1KU4yhUlGUPqNPWPFaJ+b9TGZicw+k0K0vpRW8RMT4PsPZLbXveHU3FqVNqnNuSeaSim5LW+t+Z3tHU31fLcx4T+G1tsT0nrH7Z7PN+0jBqNWhiI3UqicJtfahbJLzs3/AIo63F1xMWh7PIdabadtKe0dY9/f89rfUm5xpVmre8UqdV9M7Xf/ABJv4nvcHqek0YmXwHOOGjh+MvSvbPRrO08xuhU5MMzDYEAMZRCxLBqxGokCqBQqkRS5SawtyszWQIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwEy1FQNYiAioBAIyiAZKJWJlkGQABrnPkg1ENQUSA3wjZBiZea7cYNVY4a7eWFWTaXN20R53MfVr730HINX0dtTHeYj5unp7ulFR7kFq7XST/djype/+u/XulOnapJ/aUfyOK3gtXD21BycILnmfovyuWqz2aYUKtONaKSyXhOUXfKmtNfg/wAJrLOPFhsGhKrFwV7Smu60rxV4xfpr6C/eFrPSXbbf2bua2aDbpVHJQu7uKjyb8eKM6lcPb5bxPpa7Z7w9J7NK9sRVg8/fpJxSu4d2Su5LgnqrN+Jrhulphxc9rnRrbp0n3/nm732kRvhKT4qOIj56wmjk4r1Y/d0uQWxxFo86/WEw9OPuGAVrOVHMvJ2d/wASfxPQ5dbFYr7M/nxfPf8AJKTOvfU8rY+P+nFaseo+aVAZwnyYSYbQyAAMHENRKEbUCkFAoApjIMsTUKzgAAAAAAAAAWwysVlbEy3FYCKgEAgBgQBYqTOFSKxM5UIAANc5hqIayKgG6nC3mVmZZhHnu3Ffd4VT5xqpRurrM4ytf0R0eYR/Lifa9vkNd3EzX2fWHzOpVlVbc25Ph5JK/pxPHfd6dYrGIeu3mlOTTWeKumrWdrpfM47Q8rtaYcLG1rThUu9H3Uuq5kglopbTlUqTp8IzTbSjxb0RcLiGrY2N3FaTbaUYyzJdNOXi4m5a09G1+z1m33D3KlKSbqVKi3ab1Ss3KUuujtb+ZF1MbXY5XFo4i0R2x1+jl+zNS95qWkklR70Xxl3la3QnD53O3zvb6CsTHXP0l6f2hJe43fGNak49L6p3+DZycT6jzuRzP8Vj2Su0ae6pbPpK7yQyXa4RjSV2+muU7nCfp1KV9k/J4/NJ9LocRqT/AFRPxt9plxakL+Z675KJag0EGcJW8ipMNoZAAEaCxOEsRuJyEVQAFAoFAWLlJrCNFZmsoGQAASBEZZKBMtxTzZJEaiIgCoEQCAGBiACFi4ZmylZAAADXKVw1EMCNIEZ048ypMtoZAPO9vKWbBS1SUatByb07udR4/wByOnx0Z0ffD2eQ228ZHti3yz9HR7AwsYQtHVXbzaNu6Wp4vi+n1dSbTmWzEyhUcoJqTjZySeq5rgRnbaIzMOk220kvC2VerM+LUR0dTRnaWeLjxcmnxv8ADj5GsNZd9k3uFlPKqai0nUyq3efdjmfNvkY65drh7xWceMu025jVPDYKOXI8kp5c2Z2XdUm/HX0NXnMQ7XL9D0etqdc9o+s/B3PszgniKrcM2Wj/AKmncvLh118Psl4f1pOdzMaFYz49vP8A19Xsu1OEdahCmnxxOFWV9HUSd/K9/gc+tXdXHth43LdWNLWm8/02+TVt+q/eacb6e71G14yqQs/wNHc4WM637RPzeRzCYrwE+c3iPhEy4R6j5lrqR5+oWJayNKFZRlYMzDamVkAAAJYmGosEaAqoCgUCgUKNBJiJYuBcszTyRorExhsXAy5o7AACAQCBEAgEAppxzIEAAADXN6+QaqxI0gCK1CN5WAAB0fbb/d+J/pp/+yJ1uM/6bfni9Tkv/wB2n7/lL5jRxE3GKzSskklmdrLTgeDL9C06Vjrhto1GlKKdlNLNbmlqkG7UiZiZ8Hc7NqurC00nldk7ata8fQz4vN4ikUno5mB2fSzSlkTeWT1RuHVtMt+2FbZyS0UsVG662Umvki/+XPwfXiYY9oIKMMHZLWlO/illsvvfqY1I6Q9LlN5tOpMz4x9XfezKN8RXd2stFaJ913lzX74l4fvJz2f5VIx4/R2NPtXXni44dwo5Fj3QuozzZYxunfNxu7ljWtNoj2uGeV6NOHnViZzsz3j7dnbba/2p+FCl98qjPX4OP1Wn9vq+L5tafQ6dfDN/lVxTvvDANM1qRuOyBVAyg/vCTDYVgAAAAInCGXKoFAoFABVAoFA//9k=)

DSGamer wrote:

No one said that.

Well I'm saying it. Anita is unquestionably always right and its high time someone had the guts to say it.

WaN wrote:

I'll gladly be mocked as a tinfoil hat wearing street crazy if it does anything to deter any possible draconian action on the part of Google, real or imagined.

It won't, though. Your fighting with strawfeminists won't influence Google one iota. You're swinging at shadows; when nothing appears, it won't be because you've scared it off.

WideAndNerdy wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

No one said that.

Well I'm saying it. Anita is unquestionably always right and its high time someone had the guts to say it.

I'm not sure if sarcastically agreeing with imagined arguments nobody is making instead of vehemently disagreeing with imagined arguments nobody is making is really an improvement.

[edit: de-duping "improvement" in my post.]

Guys! He's scoring like all the Internet points with those sick burns! Maybe we were wrong about how stereotypical gender roles are overused in video-games? I, for one, have now played a Huney Popsicle thing. I can't go back to just vanilla bejewelled! Whose twitter do I spam to make sure they don't delete the files from my computer?

WideAndNerdy wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

No one said that.

Well I'm saying it. Anita is unquestionably always right and its high time someone had the guts to say it.

Nope. Anita has definitely been wrong about some things, and I have no problem with people calling her out when she is. I just insist that they back up their arguments by citing what she actually said and justifying their position.

I've been commanded to not post in P and C at least for the weekend. Technically this post goes against that but I figure I'm permitted to let you know.

Proceed

I get why Anita is a part of the Google initiative, but I'm also not on board with Zoe and Randi Harper.

It is possible to talk about this stuff with nuance and not ...

WideAndNerdy wrote:

Well I'm saying it. Anita is unquestionably always right and its high time someone had the guts to say it.

I'm sure some people believe and say that, but I really don't believe that. I also don't entirely trust her ambitions, but I'm not being a jerk about it.

garion333 wrote:

I get why Anita is a part of the Google initiative, but I'm also not on board with Zoe and Randi Harper.

It is possible to talk about this stuff with nuance and not ...

I'd be interested in hearing your reasons for that, but I'm not sure that this is the place for it.

I'm guessing that Zoe is there on the strength of the Crash Override Network, and both she and Randi Harper are there because of their involvement in the Online Abuse Prevention Initiative.

Well, it's just my opinion, and Google can invite whoever they want, but I sure hope they're vetting everyone. "Not on board" may have been a bit strong as it implies Google is making a bad decision. I get why they invited who they did, I'm not overly cheery at all the people they chose.

I need coffee, I feel like I can't come off as anything but a prick this morning. lol

Randi is known for getting angry at folks... the problem being, the evidence GG uses of her as a harasser... is usually in response to someone harassing her first and presented without context. She doesn't just wake up and tell some GG paragon to go die in a fire... they call her a fascist and an Orwellian Censorship Overlord and her mentions explode with GGers jumping on the bandwagon, then she tells them to go die in a fire. Would it be better if she didn't tell anyone to die in a fire? Obviously. But when people sling sh*t her way all day long and then she's labeled a harasser by the sh*t slingers for her having a human reaction? Meeeeeeeh, sorry, then the label loses the weight. (Personally, I think this is exactly the goal here... devalue the word harasser in the chaos so that even if Milo is continued to be pointed out as a harasser, there's then the question of parsing out what kind of harasser he is, which is just too much for some folks.)

The irony, of course, being that GG started with harassment. It started as a singular dude trying to harass (and recruit a bunch of keyboard warriors to help harass) his ex. Then spread to sh*tting on a bunch of other women. Today, their biggest stars are Milo, Kerns, RogueStar, etc... They're anger over "the harassers on the other side" is about as low a level of self-awareness as it's possible to have... or a brilliant (if despicable) startegy of continuing to just sow chaos.

I'd agree that I don't like Randi as a person from what I've seen of her online (and have long since stopped following her). But, her tools she's creating to help people avoid harassment gives her a pretty clear space on that team. Based on what I've been reading, I'm actually surprised I don't see anyone pulled in from the LoL team. They've been working on so much stuff trying to reduce the level of toxic behavior and sh*ttiness of parts of their community that they kind of seem like a good group of folks to pull in too.

I'm sorry I got to say this. It's Google. They have the smartest engineers and computer scientists out there. Their ability to analyze data is far far beyond the crude methods we've discussed.

They don't need her technical expertise.

I think she absolutely belongs on that team, for all of the reasons Demos mentions. I have no problem with her losing her cool and fighting back at the people harrassing her. I'm always impressed when people can take the high road, but I don't begrudge someone dealing with that level of nonsense a dip into roads of varying altitudes.

Good call on LoL - there's got to be people there who could contribute.

WideAndNerdy wrote:

I'm sorry I got to say this. It's Google. They have the smartest engineers and computer scientists out there. Their ability to analyze data is far far beyond the crude methods we've discussed.

They don't need her technical expertise.

When I need to take a self-imposed break from posting in the P&C, I find it helps me maintain that by simply not reading it until I'm ready to catch up and start posting again.

WideAndNerdy wrote:

I'm sorry I got to say this. It's Google. They have the smartest engineers and computer scientists out there. Their ability to analyze data is far far beyond the crude methods we've discussed.

They don't need her technical expertise.

You say that as if you know what her level of technical expertise is or Google's experience with moderating social media spheres is. Google thinks they need her. If Google, filled with all those smart engineers and computer scientists, thinks they need her, why isn't that good enough?

WideAndNerdy wrote:

I'm sorry I got to say this. It's Google. They have the smartest engineers and computer scientists out there. Their ability to analyze data is far far beyond the crude methods we've discussed.

They don't need her technical expertise.

82% of which are (primarily white) dudes who, according to a major study by Pew Research last year, aren't harassed online as much or as severely as women, especially younger women.

It makes perfect sense to consult the people who have experienced the worst the knuckle draggers of the Internet dish out to gain a better understanding of the problem and how it can be effectively addressed.

Demosthenes wrote:
WideAndNerdy wrote:

I'm sorry I got to say this. It's Google. They have the smartest engineers and computer scientists out there. Their ability to analyze data is far far beyond the crude methods we've discussed.

They don't need her technical expertise.

You say that as if you know what her level of technical expertise is or Google's experience with moderating social media spheres is. Google thinks they need her. If Google, filled with all those smart engineers and computer scientists, thinks they need her, why isn't that good enough?

Cuz she's a dum gurl, obvs.

That seems unnecessary, Chumpy. Don't get wrong, I'd assume (with the addendum of "who disagrees with us") that would be true for GamerGate, but I'd still like to know Wide's answer.

Reminder that WaN is out of P&C until at least Monday - don't want to mini-mod, but might be good etiquette to hold off on posting direct questions until then.

But if you can't wait, knock yourself out.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/OoSmlDZ.gif)

As a moved tangent from the Episode 2 Close Look thread:

WideAndNerdy wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:
WideAndNerdy wrote:
Seth wrote:

I should clarify. When given the opportunity to be treated like a puppy, I can always turn it down.

And women can't?

Correct. Not to say that no woman can ever turn down offered help, but there are certainly men who assume that women need help "whether they'll admit it or not", and will continue to "help" even after being asked not to.

WideAndNerdy wrote:
Seth wrote:

There are times when I'd rather be treated like a puppy than a man, and have someone just put a blanket around me and handle all the sh*t in my life.

The difference is that I get to pick when I get treated like a puppy. These tropes aren't giving women the choice.

You do? I don't. I'm always expected to be a man even when I could desperately use the puppy treatment. People in my life have little patience for me not being able to take care of something.

I envy the reverse situation.

This is a fascinating statement. If there are two ways in which a person can be treated, you seem to be upset that you don't have the choice, yet you suggest that not having that choice is something enviable.

Then she should let other feminists know that they need to stop asking for Male Allies.

Choice is preferable but I'd rather be offered help than have it assumed that I should be man tough at all times. How horrible it must be for these women to be offered help.

1) You apparently don't understand what "male allies" are. Here's a hint; it's not someone who always insists on "helping".

2) You'd rather have it assumed that you need help at all times? How horrible is must be for you to have people assume you're capable.