GWJ Conference Call Episode 463

GWJ Radio Style!, Rocket League, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, Fallout: Shelter, Dragon Age: Inquisition DLC, Take This, Russ Pitts and The Stage of Development Kickstarter, Everquest II Prison, Fig, Your Emails and More!

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This week Shawn Andrich and Russ Pitts revisit the old GWJ Radio format for a special edition of the show!

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Comments

I am SO surprised to see Rocket League on the agenda again this week.

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

Looking forward to Stage of Development. Holy Moly John Romero has a glorious mane!

did someone say rocket league

00:00:25 Shawn and Russ shoot the s---
00:12:45 PAX Prime & embedded game journalism
00:19:10 Rocket League
00:20:55 Shadowrun: Dragonfall
00:28:14 Fallout: Shelter
00:32:46 Dragon Age Inquisition DLC
00:38:29 Fig (new crowdfunding platform)
00:50:47 Stage of Development Kickstarter
01:03:22 TotalBiscuit
01:13:20 Everquest 2 Prison Server
01:25:55 Your Emails

SarielsBaby wrote:

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

Well... He says that transphobic abuse is the fault of the victim, and pushes that pretty messed up viewpoint regularly. That alone makes the "vitriol" some people exhibit towards him understandable. If you have a toxic, contemptuous viewpoint, you attract contempt. Though he's also got a pretty healthy litiny of other offenses: For example, he's utterly dismissive of racism as being a thing that exists in the world (his views on privilege in general are pretty messed up.)

He encourages harrassment and casually shrugs off death threats to anyone he doesn't like as no big deal.

His take on Patreon is absurd, and completely unsupportive of independent artists - (ie, the very people who need the money the most.)

He supports Gamergate and presents himself as a "moderate" voice while enabling some pretty awfully not-so-moderate activities. He bemoans the days that people could navigate the internet without having to have empathy. And yet, if you criticize him, he's got insanely thin skin and is quick to accuse someone of character assassination. Of course, he has no problem making false / ridiculous accusations about other people if he doesn't like their politics.

And then there's the framerate police. The bragging about his IQ score. Etc.

SarielsBaby wrote:

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

This isn't really the place for an in-depth discussion of the issue, but he has earned it. I linked to a video a little over a month ago that went into his hijinx in some detail, but I can't find that video now. Basically he treats some of his viewers like crap, he supports some pretty vile people then denies supporting them, he has an ego of mythic proportions, at various times he has spouted classist, racist and sexist nonsense in videos and on podcasts... he is just not a very nice person.

I used to watch his "WTF Is..." videos, but I quickly lost interest when his politics started leaking into his public communications.

annnnd I've been HarpoMarxistHausered...

On a lighter note... Spry Fox!!! I *love* their games.

I'm only part way through the episode, but I'm looking forward to Fig being one of the topics - its really interesting and if they can pull it off that would be great!

What's Rocket League?

Flying_Norseman wrote:

What's Rocket League?

The Dark Souls of Soccer

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:
Flying_Norseman wrote:

What's Rocket League?

The Dark Souls of Soccer

Scorching hot take.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:
SarielsBaby wrote:

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

Well... He says that transphobic abuse is the fault of the victim, and pushes that pretty messed up viewpoint regularly. That alone makes the "vitriol" some people exhibit towards him understandable. If you have a toxic, contemptuous viewpoint, you attract contempt. Though he's also got a pretty healthy litiny of other offenses: For example, he's utterly dismissive of racism as being a thing that exists in the world (his views on privilege in general are pretty messed up.)

He encourages harrassment and casually shrugs off death threats to anyone he doesn't like as no big deal.

His take on Patreon is absurd, and completely unsupportive of independent artists - (ie, the very people who need the money the most.)

He supports Gamergate and presents himself as a "moderate" voice while enabling some pretty awfully not-so-moderate activities. He bemoans the days that people could navigate the internet without having to have empathy. And yet, if you criticize him, he's got insanely thin skin and is quick to accuse someone of character assassination. Of course, he has no problem making false / ridiculous accusations about other people if he doesn't like their politics.

And then there's the framerate police. The bragging about his IQ score. Etc.

I've been following him for a year now and your representation could hardly be more wrong. I've seen him be conciliatory and apologetic of some of his earlier statements. I've seen him not only have a transwoman as a guest on twice recently but also attack his own audience on her behalf when some complained about her presence. I've seen him apologize to Dodger for asking her "as a woman" questions. He's a thoughtful man with evolving views who has committed the grave sin of not wholesale subscribing to a specific brand of groupthink.

And he's not a gamer gater, he's merely not 100 percent against them. And this again is a grave sin with a certain group of people who are quite comfortable dismissing and dehumanizing people as much as they claim anybody else does.

Also. Whats so horrible about the framerate police? I'm genuinely curious on that one?

The "ghost" account thing exists. It's called shadowbanning. Reddit does it.

Its probably a good thing. I understand why it's tempting to deal with trolls this way but it can make me paranoid. I can be regarded as a troll in some communities merely for making posts such as the above.

Beckett wrote:

00:00:25 Shawn and Russ shoot the s---
00:12:45 PAX Prime & embedded game journalism
00:19:10 Rocket League
00:20:55 Shadowrun: Dragonfall
00:28:14 Fallout: Shelter
00:32:46 Dragon Inquisition DLC
00:38:29 Fig (new crowdfunding platform)
00:50:47 Stage of Development Kickstarter
01:03:22 TotalBiscuit
01:13:20 Everquest 2 Prison Server
01:25:55 Your Emails

This is the sign of a good community right here (a user providing show notes), one that is worth of curbing my behavior for.

Okay yeah, I guess all of the links I put in there where he acts in a toxic manor count for nothing and your vague impression of him as "conciliatory" and "apologetic" means he gets a free pass? Like this we might as well hand wave away. As well as any of the stuff outlined in this. But seriously... Saying that you're trying to be a "sensible middle of the road voice" does not make you a sensible middle of the road voice. (And even if it did, there's still the whole fallacy of the middle thing to untangle.)

If you aren't bothered by his particular brand of BS, then have at. That's your perogative. But the reason I outlined all of that was because someone was wondering WHY TB has people that don't like him. I think if you follow those links and actually look at what he says and does then you can pretty easily understand why so many people consider him toxic, even if you personally don't.

As for the Framerate police, look here. Basically they are another tool with which to arbitrarily punish indie devs.

I enjoyed the format and the discussion. Stage of Development sounds really fascinating.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

Sure. Didn't think you wanted me to go there. It looked like you were hoping nobody actually clicked the links and that they'd instead be scared off by the sheer number of them.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

Well... He says that transphobic abuse is the fault of the victim, and pushes that pretty messed up viewpoint regularly. That alone makes the "vitriol" some people exhibit towards him understandable. If you have a toxic, contemptuous viewpoint, you attract contempt. Though he's also got a pretty healthy litiny of other offenses: For example, he's utterly dismissive of racism as being a thing that exists in the world (his views on privilege in general are pretty messed up.)

His point is that the debate on racism is being focused through a very Americentric lens. And he's right. Next.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

He encourages harrassment and casually shrugs off death threats to anyone he doesn't like as no big deal.

He said "do with it what you will" and what he has said sense is to not encourage harrassment.

On the second point. He denied only that the threats were 'credible' which is a specific term and which is what the FBI determined as well . He acknowledged that she was getting threats.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

His take on Patreon is absurd, and completely unsupportive of independent artists - (ie, the very people who need the money the most.)

He was targeting creators that don't produce, hence the "reliable product" bit.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

He supports Gamergate and presents himself as a "moderate" voice while enabling some pretty awfully not-so-moderate activities. He bemoans the days that people could navigate the internet without having to have empathy.

None of you links support any of this. I don't expect full citations on a forum post, but I'm going to separate this out from the rest of the paragraph to make a point that not everything you posted even has a link attached to it.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

And yet, if you criticize him, he's got insanely thin skin and is quick to accuse someone of character assassination. Of course, he has no problem making false / ridiculous accusations about other people if he doesn't like their politics.

He's got a temper. He'll admit that. He's also been known to apologize when it gets especially out of hand. You'll note he follows up the column you linked to with a comment if you scroll down. And they've buried the hatchet.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

The bragging about his IQ score. Etc.

Yeah about that. TB learns and grows. Seen here (Start at 3:30 if the video doesn't jump you there.) And keep in mind, he brought it up on his own. He wasn't defending, this was real out of the blue humility.

Ugh, so anyway
ROCKET LEAGUE

Amoebic wrote:

Ugh, so anyway
ROCKET LEAGUE

I know, right? Priorities, people! Focus.

This reminded me of the short lived (?) podcast you guys did a few years ago before Russ started at Polygon. I hope that Russ can find the time to be on the Conference Call some times in the future.

Listen, I don't really know you W&N, and you can look through anything you want with rose colored glasses and hand wave away some pretty messed up problematic stuff to your heart's content. I don't really care. I'm not here to debate - if you feel the need for an argument, start up a TB defense thread on P&C, I'm sure you'll have some takers.

Someone was wondering why people don't like TB. I pointed out some of the why's. I've heard all those excuses before from people who defend the man, and I remain unimpressed with them. Especially since they are distracting from the real story here. Which is ROCKET LEAGUE.

I disagree. I think the story is Russ Pitts' expose on Spry Fox's next game!

Will it have bushes? Will it have churches? Will it have BEARS?!

Triple Town is avalable on Steam, btw. Alphabear, not yet.

SarielsBaby wrote:

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

Looking forward to Stage of Development. Holy Moly John Romero has a glorious mane!

Is it surprising, really? His style is... aggressive... and he takes that style to everything he does, including politics. He's bound to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Regardless of where TB happens to stand on GamerGate at any particular moment, I think one thing is clear: if you're a media personality whose job has nothing to do with politics, you run a massive risk if you start talking about politics. It's entirely unsurprising to me that he's generated a lot of controversy.

Of all of Russ's proposed interviews I find this one the most interesting, because so much of this guy is bluster and facade. Who is he, really?

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

Well... He says that transphobic abuse is the fault of the victim, and pushes that pretty messed up viewpoint regularly. That alone makes the "vitriol" some people exhibit towards him understandable. If you have a toxic, contemptuous viewpoint, you attract contempt. Though he's also got a pretty healthy litiny of other offenses: For example, he's utterly dismissive of racism as being a thing that exists in the world (his views on privilege in general are pretty messed up.)

His point is that the debate on racism is being focused through a very Americentric lens. And he's right. Next.

Read to me pretty much like your typical white dude response to White Privilege. The old "I grew up poor and there were rich minorities" so thus White Privilege doesn't exist. Only he tries to avoid it by painting it as an "American" Perception. See also the "Michael Jordan and Oprah response to racism and how because of them it can't exist".

Obviously you are a super fan.. so I get where you are coming from. That being said you can easily see why he might be so polarizing. I'm looking forward to the interview with Russ if the project gets funded.. should be interesting.

gore wrote:
SarielsBaby wrote:

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

Looking forward to Stage of Development. Holy Moly John Romero has a glorious mane!

Is it surprising, really? His style is... aggressive... and he takes that style to everything he does, including politics. He's bound to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Regardless of where TB happens to stand on GamerGate at any particular moment, I think one thing is clear: if you're a media personality whose job has nothing to do with politics, you run a massive risk if you start talking about politics.

Which is funny because that's also a common complaint GG has about liberal games journalists. Games get docked because they're not "correct."

TheGameguru wrote:
TheHarpoMarxist wrote:

Well... He says that transphobic abuse is the fault of the victim, and pushes that pretty messed up viewpoint regularly. That alone makes the "vitriol" some people exhibit towards him understandable. If you have a toxic, contemptuous viewpoint, you attract contempt. Though he's also got a pretty healthy litiny of other offenses: For example, he's utterly dismissive of racism as being a thing that exists in the world (his views on privilege in general are pretty messed up.)

His point is that the debate on racism is being focused through a very Americentric lens. And he's right. Next.

Read to me pretty much like your typical white dude response to White Privilege. The old "I grew up poor and there were rich minorities" so thus White Privilege doesn't exist. Only he tries to avoid it by painting it as an "American" Perception. See also the "Michael Jordan and Oprah response to racism and how because of them it can't exist".

Obviously you are a super fan.. so I get where you are coming from.

Not really. He harps on the same stuff a lot and he's not as funny as he thinks he is (he is terrible at comedy which wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't trying so hard to be funny). But there's nothing quite like watching the Tumblr crowd bash someone to make me want to sympathize with them. The Tumblr crowd (for lack of a better word) is its own worst enemy.

Yes the trolls are more vile but the tumblrati have self righteousness and press support. GG has similar problems.

Tumblrati? Seriously?

I may be remembering this wrong, but I always liked the Thread Of The Week portion of GWJ Radio. Or it may have been part of the early Conference Call. Either way, I'm glad it's back. But I forgot that Radio used to have a news segment. I wouldn't mind seeing that make a return too. Just one story and a smidge of commentary. I don't really follow gaming news so it'd be nice to have the big story of the week highlighted and to hear the hosts' perspectives.

Thanks for pointing out the upcoming indie games thread in this week's thread of the week. I hadn't noticed it and I am terrible at knowing which games are worth my time among smaller releases. I should really give them more love. Now, I know Victor Vran is getting a Motörhead expansion. I am curious to see how that works out.

I think we've reached peak Total Biscuit in this discussion, time to move on and/or start a dedicated thread if you really want to keep going.

WideAndNerdy wrote:
gore wrote:
SarielsBaby wrote:

I honestly don't understand the hate towards Total Biscuit. I disagree with his point of view sometimes. But the level of vitriol some people exhibit is surprising.

Looking forward to Stage of Development. Holy Moly John Romero has a glorious mane!

Is it surprising, really? His style is... aggressive... and he takes that style to everything he does, including politics. He's bound to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Regardless of where TB happens to stand on GamerGate at any particular moment, I think one thing is clear: if you're a media personality whose job has nothing to do with politics, you run a massive risk if you start talking about politics.

Which is funny because that's also a common complaint GG has about liberal games journalists. Games get docked because they're not "correct."

Which, as reviewers talking to their audience, they more than have the right to do. Not one of those "liberal games journalists" has said that folks shouldn't be allowed to make those games. They've said that it would be better for all gamers if such problematic elements were not so common. You clearly don't agree with them on that. Good for you? If you want reviewers who share your opinions, read elsewhere. It's really that simple. It's why I don't watch TB's stuff anymore. His politics are repugnant to me on top of his obnoxious personality and his frequent use of his fanbase to harass folks. He can stand there all day long and say I don't condone harassment. But when he knows he's sitting on a mob of followers who've demonstrably taken his word as gospel truth and then started swarming devs, writers, etc... then tweet, talk, etc... at them about how this one person is a cancer upon the industry... well, sorry, I don't buy your "I'm against harassment" shtick anymore. He's more than willing to use it to try to shape the industry as much as you suggest "liberal games jouranlists" are.

Seriously, we could do this merry-go-round all day. As noted, if you want to defend TB, there is a P&C forum for exactly these kinds of topics. Go create a topic there, trust me, you'll have more sources than you know what to do with in replies to that topic.