World of Warcraft: Legion (7.2 hits the PTR)

I wish bliz could go the rift route and just have many specs per class without worrying about balance.

Agreed! Balance is overrated, at least in PvE. (I don't PvP, so it's easy for me to say this I know.) In EQ you had classes with exp penalties, races with exp penalties and races who would be killed on sight in 75% of civilization. People still played them in spite of -- or because of -- the challenge.

I think you two are talking about different things. Lunchbox is talking about making most/all roles available to every archetype and let the players choose the combinations that best fit themselves. The rogue healer plays very differently in style than a healer rogue but the effectiveness is the same.

Also RIFT's trinity is more like trinity cubed. Tank is split into damage soak, damage reduction, magic defense, single target taunt and area taunt. Healer is spit into, single/area target burst, single/area target sustained, single/area target over time, proc, pet, delayed, damage shields, etc. DPS is split into single/area melee (magic or physical, single/area ranged (magic or physical), single/area over time, proc, pet.

Other games have done this but not to the extent that RIFT has. Also RIFT has done the best job at making situations and specifically dungeons, rifts and instant adventures where the splinters of each trinity role are very useful.

Ah, gotcha. Yes, Rift's system was very nice and flexible. I enjoyed the bard and being a steady-stream, secondary type healer with a more active support role.

Shadout wrote:

Artifact weapons or alternate advancement should have happened a long time ago (and kinda was announced, then scrapped, a long time ago), but it will likely be good for the game even if it arrives late. Somewhat seems like a wrong choice to tie it to weapons though, since that effectively removes a gear slot - arguably the most important gear slot - from the game. Understandable why they do it, weapons are the most iconic item, but on the other hand, that also means they are taking the most iconic items away from drops.

I dunno. Weapons have such an effect on your DPS/healing that leaving it to loot RNG makes more trouble than it's really worth, especially when raids have really bad drop luck.

Like mine the first 3 weeks of HFC.

EDIT: Looks like drops will be important:
http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topi...

Something that wasn't mentioned during the reveal is that each Artifact has a number of Relic slots, which will determine its raw item stats (DPS, ilvl, etc.) and modifiers to the traits you've chosen, so the Artifact's stats will still improve as you defeat bosses.

This makes a lot of sense, because it reduces the impact of bad RNG. Instead of all the casters competing for 1 specific staff because that's the only option, it'll be everyone going for gems that fit their spec.

Also, melee hunters are a thing:

As an example of class changes, the Survival Hunter 'spear' Artifact was brought up. In Legion, Survival Hunters will be a melee spec that utilizes a pet. To differentiate specializations, the developers will try to de-homogenize the classes. Further to this, Beast Mastery Hunters will fight at range with a pet, while Marksmanship Hunters will fight at range with NO PET.

So... bow rogue?

cube wrote:

Also, melee hunters are a thing:

As an example of class changes, the Survival Hunter 'spear' Artifact was brought up. In Legion, Survival Hunters will be a melee spec that utilizes a pet. To differentiate specializations, the developers will try to de-homogenize the classes. Further to this, Beast Mastery Hunters will fight at range with a pet, while Marksmanship Hunters will fight at range with NO PET.

Interesting. I wonder if this means there will be more differentiation between specs and classes. Blizzard tried to make some class differences in WoD. For instance, my ret paladin lost his Guardian (it's tank only), and prot paladins (I think) can no longer pop wings.

I like the hunter change. Warlocks already get a buff if they ditch their pets, which makes 5-mans and raids a little less cluttered. I always thought it was a little weird that hunters didn't get the same thing.

Not sure about this melee hunter thing, though. Next thing you know, all weapons will be hunter weapons. ...

That Icy Veins interview is worth checking out. It answers a lot of general questions.

Not sure about this melee hunter thing, though. Next thing you know, all weapons will be hunter weapons. ...

Hunters are probably pissed that they weren't rolling on all weapons now.

Thank god.

Enix wrote:

I like the hunter change. Warlocks already get a buff if they ditch their pets, which makes 5-mans and raids a little less cluttered. I always thought it was a little weird that hunters didn't get the same thing.

We did. There is a marksmanship/survival passive introduced in WoD that gives you a 30% damage boost and buffs group/raid members if you go petless.

Yeah, but you have to be 100 to take that talent, right?

I'm pretty positive on the info so far. Really digging the theme - I know it's a bit of a cliche, but there's just something satisfying about ancient tombs full of demons. DH aren't really my jam but it seems like a lot of people want one - and I already have too many alts.

Liking the sound of the druid shapeshift customisation, I hope that makes it into live. I much prefer Troll to the other druid races but I really don't like their current shapeshift forms.

Personally, I am giddy with anticipation for this expansion. The whole Artifact thing sounds pretty darn nifty, and I definitely can't wait to play melee hunter. And customizable druid forms? FINA-FREAKING-LY.

IMAGE(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Vxfk75OJbBA/UvJ7PYQ2U8I/AAAAAAAAR8s/F3Dcy4EEfr8/s1600/giddy.gif)

Also, while the free level 100 boost is nice, like the 90 boost I likely won't end up using it for a long time. In fact I only just used my 90 boost last month on a troll priest that I am now leveling, currently at level 96. I'll probably end up using the boost on another low level horde character, as all but one of my alliance characters are at 100 already, and the one that isn't is 95.

I do hope that more races get access to the demon hunter though. Or at the very least, the demon hunter should get updated jokes. Night elf jokes are by far the worst in the game, particularly the male ones.

duckilama wrote:

Yeah, but you have to be 100 to take that talent, right?

Yes - it is one of the L100 talents for hunters (and it may not be available to beast mastery hunters...at least it would not make sense to take).

Garrcia wrote:
duckilama wrote:

Yeah, but you have to be 100 to take that talent, right?

Yes - it is one of the L100 talents for hunters (and it may not be available to beast mastery hunters...at least it would not make sense to take).

Yeah, for BM the talent is different, it becomes:

Adaptation

Increases the effect of your pet's Combat Experience to 70% increased damage. Your pet now gains the following abilities, regardless of its active spec:

Spiked Collar
Roar of Sacrifice
Cornered
Boar's Speed
Last Stand
Blood of the Rhino
Great Stamina

Farscry wrote:

Yeah, I'm ambivalent too. Certainly looks good and has a lot of potential, but I'll remain cautious on the optimism until we're closer to release and we see what has been cut.

Edit:

Also, I'm curious about this claim from Blizzard:

Everyone who has played WoW is going to be shocked.

I have a sneaking suspicion that no, I'm not going to be shocked. The only thing that might shock me is if the world of Azeroth is fully overhauled again during Legion the way it was with Cataclysm, and only because I could swear Blizzard said that they didn't really see that being worth the work again.

I'm going to let my bitter vet show, starting here. Everyone will be shocked, but in two different ways. Some portion will be shocked at how bland everything is, and how far short of the hype it fell. Everyone else will be shocked at how it exceeded their expectations.

Enix wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

I am just completely confused by all the tidbits released.

Hence the year-long gap between announcement and release. I suspect Blizzard doesn't have a total handle on this, either.

Also, I demand glaives for my demon hunter. MAKE IT HAPPEN BLIZZARD.

Every demon hunter theyve shown has had warglaives. I'll be floored if they don't use the Warglaives of Azzinoth in their artifact somehow.

At any rate, count me in the underwhelmed camp. Nearly everything about this expansion screams 'pandering' at me, particularly Artifact weapons that you're getting from established characters, like the Doomhammer and Ashbringer. I'd much rather see more Artifacts be a reforging of some old relic, or something more recent that was shattered, like what they're doing for frost Death Knights with Frostmourne.

Demon Hunter... more pandering I feel. It's essentially playing the bad guy, since they're designing it off of the Illidari, rather than those that Illidan was counted amongst before obtaining the Skul of Gul'Dan and becoming more demonic in nature.

ruhk wrote:
Enix wrote:

I like the hunter change. Warlocks already get a buff if they ditch their pets, which makes 5-mans and raids a little less cluttered. I always thought it was a little weird that hunters didn't get the same thing.

We did. There is a marksmanship/survival passive introduced in WoD that gives you a 30% damage boost and buffs group/raid members if you go petless.

D'oh! I'll hit Shift-E and Disengage from this thread aaaaaaaaaaaand ....

*splat *

That was me Disengaging right off a cliff to my death. (Raise your hand if you've done that. Higher ... higher ... show of hands ...)

Thanks for the tip. Hunter was my main a long time ago, and now I bring him out only to murder the great beasts of Nagrand for their skins. I'll have to check that out.

AnimeJ wrote:

Every demon hunter theyve shown has had warglaives. I'll be floored if they don't use the Warglaives of Azzinoth in their artifact somehow.

According to this, the only weapons that demon hunters will be able to use are glaives:

An all-new weapon type, Glaives, will be the only weapon type that Demon Hunters can use. They are a weapon 'pair' that comes together and fills both hand slots. Having only one available weapon type for the class will not be an issue in Legion, as you mostly focus on your Artifact throughout this expansion. In the future, Demon Hunters might eventually dual wield the 'standard' agility weapon types.

I'm guessing it's a 2H weapon that'll appear to be two 1H weapons. I'm guessing it'll scale (sort of like heirlooms) if Artifacts don't kick in until level 100 (or 110), or it'll just be Artifact-ed from the get-go. Guess we'll find out.

I bet the DH Artifact will show up at the end of their intro sequence, which will kick them directly into the normal expansion content. With the DK it made sense that the faction leader would say "go prove yourself in Outland" before letting them join up, because the player is still just a flunky and nobody trusts them enough to send them anywhere closer to home. I can't see them handing command of their Dreanor forces over to a newly-arrived Demon Hunter. Dropping them into the urgent fight against the legion just makes more sense.

MMO-Champion has another list of what's new in Legion.

A few of the more interesting bullet points based on some recent discussions here:

* Legion will release next year, but no specific date has been set yet.

* The team is happy with how flying worked out in Draenor. You will have to level up and explore the land before you are able to fly, similar to what is coming in Patch 6.2.1.

* The subscriber count is more volatile than it used to be because players have gotten older and don't have as much free time anymore. As long as players are happy and enjoy the game, the team doesn't mind extreme peaks and valleys. They just want to ensure you have a great experience and feel like you got your money's worth.

Wowhead has a whole writeup on how Artifacts work. At first blush it appears to be a combination of an upgrade system and a talent tree.

Vargen wrote:

I bet the DH Artifact will show up at the end of their intro sequence, which will kick them directly into the normal expansion content. With the DK it made sense that the faction leader would say "go prove yourself in Outland" before letting them join up, because the player is still just a flunky and nobody trusts them enough to send them anywhere closer to home. I can't see them handing command of their Dreanor forces over to a newly-arrived Demon Hunter. Dropping them into the urgent fight against the legion just makes more sense.

It also lets all of the top-end raid guilds get them even quicker so they can exploit their OP-ness until they get nerfed through the ground with 7.1.

cube wrote:

It also lets all of the top-end raid guilds get them even quicker so they can exploit their OP-ness until they get nerfed through the ground with 7.1.

Even if they started at level 1, top-end guilds would have them so fast that it might as well be instant...

I've honestly never been concerned about what the "top-end" guilds do in WoW. They have little to no discernible impact on my own gameplay.

Anyone else feel kinda disappointed that this expansion seems to be just kinda retreading old material? Even WoD felt the same way (and Cataclysm, technically, though Blizzard at least was fairly straight up about that). If I may take some liberties...:

WoW 1.0 = Humans vs Orcs
WoW 2.0 BC = Outland
WoW 3.0 WotLK = Northrend
WoW 4.0 Cata = Humans vs Orcs, redux
WoW 5.0 MoP = Pandaria
WoW 6.0 WoD = WoW base + BC = Outland, redux
WoW 7.0 *Legion* = BC + WotLK = Northrend, redux

Therefore, I predict:
WoW 8.0 = WotLK + MoP = Pandaria, redux. Frozen pandas. "World of Warcraft: Pandapops". Calling it now.

WoW was WC1. TBC was the WC2 expansion. Wrath was WC3...

And so, the circle is complete.

(I don't remember a whole lot about the original Warcrafts... aside from "Zug Zug", "Daboo", and "Job's done!")

WoW was WC1. TBC was the WC2 expansion. Wrath was WC3...

And Legion = WC3 expansion...

Having never played the original Warcraft games, at least not to a great extent, I don't personally feel like Legion is "retreading old material." Personally, I like forward to seeing this expansion, it's the first since WotLK that's really gotten me excited. Didn't come into Cataclysm until about halfway through the expansion, MoP was interesting but not great, and WoD I was again interested by but I was not really thrilled by their execution of... well, just about everything. The idea of garrisons was good, but there was way too much micromanagement. Leveling was good but there was not enough interesting content at 100.

I definitely don't look forward to another 6+ months of the same content. I'll likely take a break from the game once I complete my rogue's legendary ring (I've got 21/33 of the tomes).

It's retreading WoW material not the WC games.

Blizzcon is this weekend.

Hoping we get an open beta date and tentative launch window before the weekend is out.

Anyone from our groups out at Blizzcon this year? I'm out here and hopefully we can meet up to hang and shoot the sh*t. Tweet at me if you are.