Look Who's Dishonored Too - Catch-All

I couldn't flush a tumbler down Stilton's toilet, and couldn't find anything smaller to try flushing. Boo.

Thankfully what was described in the article came to be in my game anyway, due to how things always unfold in stealth games: someone looking the wrong way at the wrong time.

Spoiler:

In the past I knocked out all the guards in the courtyard save the one right in front of the gazebo; zipped to the present, and stood behind where Stilton would was been (apologies, I've not read Dr. Dan Streetmentioner's Time Traveler's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations); zipped to the past and pilfered his notebook and coin sack, then he turned and saw me so I had to choke him out before he could alert the guard; then zipped to the altered present where a worker almost saw me, quickly zipped back to the past and had a good look around through the timepiece to scout out the new courtyard before heading to the study.

Good times, and probably my favourite level so far after the Royal Conservatory.

Great article. Thanks for sharing it. It made me want to play my copy of this game sooner rather than later.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

It made me want to play my copy of this game sooner rather than later.

I'm saving posting my thoughts for when I finish Dishonored 2 but I'll say that, now playing this game, I completely sympathize with your initial opinion of the first Dishonored.

Demo coming on Thursday. It's going to be the first three levels, which is one third of the game, which is over 33% if you can believe it. Corvo and Emily, and demo saves will carry over to the registered version.

That is awesome. I'm a huge fan of comprehensive demos like that.

I hadn't planned to play this until much later in the year, but I might go ahead and start it. Is Corvo's power set more or less what it was in Dishonored? Do you acquire it all at once, or do you have to slowly rebuild it all again?

Corvo's power set is identical, or very nearly so, to the first game. You do have to re-acquire it from the beginning, or acquire them if you are playing as Emily.

Is there a reason given for why Corvo lost all that cool stuff I acquired for him in the first game?

Yup.

ccesarano wrote:

Yup.

So coy. I guess I'll have to start a game with Corvo to find out how they rationalize it.

I finished the game last weekend (no kill Emily), so that took almost five months. I almost hate to say, but I didn't like it. Not too much on its own, and not nearly as much as I fell for the first one.

I found Dishonored 2 has no charm, no personality. It's a warmed-over story with one-dimensional characters in a miserable world. I was almost ready to stop playing the game entirely during The Addermire Institute, when Arkane seemed to double-down on ugliness and juvenile shock. Dunwall was grim of course, and maybe its novelty assuaged that or the fit of its over-the-top Victorian London, but it also had sparks of personality to liven it up: Piero and Treavor, some humour in the guards' lines. I had been excited when Rosario Dawson was announced as a ship's captain, but she has one dull po-faced note to sing the whole game. Reading the credits I remembered that Sam Rockwell is also in Dishonored 2. Who did he play? I couldn't tell you. And how could I be expected to, when Dishonored 2 does nothing aesthetically to distinguish itself from the first game. Coup, check; plague, check; shuttered doors, check; final anti-climactic encounter with Delilah, check. Look forward to Dishonored 3, where Emily's children travel to Wynnedown which is afflicted by shadowpigeons; Dishonored 4 where her grandnieces escape to Dabovka which is ravaged by deathraccoons... Not that I hold video game stories to a particularly high standard, or the first Dishonored's was notable in any way, but Dishonored 2's is a stand-out for damp squib.

The Dreadful Wale is a good example of the pointless recycling in Dishonored 2. With upgrades/purchases moved to the levels, its small space, and its non-dynamic role in the story, why is it a hub? Simply because the first Dishonored had a (functional, large, dynamic) hub? There's some lore to read, but that could be delivered another way, and the playable Dreadful Wale bits could just as easily be briefing cutscenes.

Maybe it's all different in high chaos, and Meaghan Foster breaks out as a narrative dynamo and the Dreadful Wale interstitials are amazeballs. *Long painful exhalation* I don't think I'm going to find out.

But who plays a video game for a story. They rarely draw me in, but very bad ones can push me away, and Dishonored 2 has a very bad, rote, self-serious, woebegone story and world. There were, however, a few hours when I was thoroughly enjoying the mechanics: namely The Royal Conservatory, A Crack in the Slab, and The Grand Palace. A building, an objective, and a bunch of grumbling (if not quite as endearing as Dunwall's) guards. That's what I live for, stealthily, and those levels delivered. Exploration, evasion, horizontal and vertical traversal, a minimum of bloodfly nests, that's when I could forget the stuff about Dishonored 2 that always made me think twice before pressing Play, and lose myself in some proper stealthing. For all my narrative dislikes Dishonored 2's architecture steps up, whether I'm traversing it or taking a moment to look at it, from the details of exterior facades and filigree to the sweeping wooden windbreaks and the modernist cliff house in the penultimate level. That art, and there's no shortage of it in the game, sets Dishonored 2 apart. I just wish I could enjoy it in a more narratively engaging game.

Gravey wrote:

So coy. I guess I'll have to start a game with Corvo to find out how they rationalize it.

You don't have to. He no longer has his powers by time you reach the character select.

And in case you'd rather I not be coy (I like to think of it as avoiding early-game spoilers ).

Spoiler:

Delilah steals his powers from him when she takes over. By time he and Emily are back-to-back he's back to square one.

Gravey wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

It made me want to play my copy of this game sooner rather than later.

I'm saving posting my thoughts for when I finish Dishonored 2 but I'll say that, now playing this game, I completely sympathize with your initial opinion of the first Dishonored.

I see what you mean, now. Change your post to be about Dishonored, and I'd happily sign my name to it.

I had to reach a kind of middle ground with Dishonored where I enjoyed the physical world but not the worldbuilding. It's like appreciating the shape and feel of a glass while not wanting to drink what's in it.

The architecture, level of detail, and ways of interacting with the world are remarkable. I'll still find myself thinking of missions in Dishonored and its add-ons and thinking of how different abilities could enable me to navigate spaces in a different way.

But the world is grim and ugly, populated by paper puppets of unrepentant cruelty. Even the humor is this cynical, unpleasant thing that you don't want to be around for long. The hub area is a large and uninteresting area that would have been better represented as menus and cutscenes, but hey, it sure does add some time for HowLongToBeat.

When you're away from all that, though, blinking between lamp posts, and seeing all the little ways you could interact with the world, all the different paths you can take... It's magic. Magic covered in tar and grease.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

But the world is grim and ugly, populated by paper puppets of unrepentant cruelty. Even the humor is this cynical, unpleasant thing that you don't want to be around for long.

At least the first one had humour. Now that I'm thinking about it, the only warm moment of personality I found in Dishonored 2 was ironically the first time I heard a clockwork soldier. But otherwise it's such a dour plod, and a far cry from the self-aware high point of "Sir, I just wanted to say... congratulations on getting your own squad."

Good luck.

I've dipped my toe into Dishonored 2. The graphics being a lot less cartoony has made a big difference for me. I feel like I'm in a world rather than in a stylised representation of one.

Edit: As with the first Dishonored I was getting frustrated by the stealth in the game early on. Guards seemed to spot me no matter what and I fluffed a few guard take downs through being inside the prompt area that led to complete mayhem. My play through was comfortably in the High Chaos zone and I felt like I must have missed a lot of upgrades so I decided to restart.

On my second play though I was instantly more comfortable with movement and stealth. I realised that, on my first attempt, I'd been pushing forward through the game just trying to get to the next objective as fast as possible. I reminded myself that the game is as much (if not more) about exploration and discovery as it is about stealth so I've been taking my time, looking in all the corners and having a much richer more interesting experience and I'm gaining more equipment and potential for upgrades that, in turn, helps me deal with the seemingly omnipresent guards.

Having a female protagonist suits the stealthy game play. Emily feels lithe and agile when moving or sprinting. The whole game is worth it for the way she spins her sword when going from normal to stealth and back again.

In an effort to stave off the urge to buy Prey, I started this up last night. I'm playing as Emily, and I made it out of Dunwall to the first mission in the port city.

First impression: it's... more Dishonored. It's a bit quicker to get up and on its feet than the first game, but not much. I can't at this point tell much difference between Emily's powers and Corvo's; scanning through the skill tree, it looks like thematically different ways to do a lot of the same things.

Which might be a good summary for the game so far: thematically different ways to do a lot of the same things. Emily replaces Corvo, blood flies replace rat plagues, Delilah replaces the Overseer, yadda yadda yadda. But it's still roughly the same gameplay with roughly the same obstacles against roughly the same enemies in roughly the same environments.

At least, so far. I'm looking forward to some of the areas I've heard about later in the game.

I still intensely dislike the world and morality of these games. Cruelty is presented as humor, and the game has such an aggressively pessimistic view of the world that every choice is a different shade of awful. Also, why does everyone have such huge hands?!

ClockworkHouse wrote:

First impression: it's... more Dishonored.

This is a good summary of the game, yes.

Also, why does everyone have such huge hands?!

Look. Some of us happen to be over-compensating like that art style, okay?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I can't at this point tell much difference between Emily's powers and Corvo's; scanning through the skill tree, it looks like thematically different ways to do a lot of the same things.

Only thing I didn't pick up until way late in the game and caused frustration at many points, Emily's far reach doesn't conceal you sneaking past people. I never knew this.

Hobear wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I can't at this point tell much difference between Emily's powers and Corvo's; scanning through the skill tree, it looks like thematically different ways to do a lot of the same things.

Only thing I didn't pick up until way late in the game and caused frustration at many points, Emily's far reach doesn't conceal you sneaking past people. I never knew this.

You also keep your momentum, if you had any when you started the Far Reach. Be careful if your destination is near glass or a ledge!

Hobear wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I can't at this point tell much difference between Emily's powers and Corvo's; scanning through the skill tree, it looks like thematically different ways to do a lot of the same things.

Only thing I didn't pick up until way late in the game and caused frustration at many points, Emily's far reach doesn't conceal you sneaking past people. I never knew this.

Although many are thematically similar, there will be differences like this; I think it is balanced by having a farther reach than Blink.

But I would largely agree with Clock's assessment, allowing for subjectivity in enjoyment of it. I didn't get "cruelty presented as humor," but it is a pretty pessimistic worldview on display.

Hobear wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I can't at this point tell much difference between Emily's powers and Corvo's; scanning through the skill tree, it looks like thematically different ways to do a lot of the same things.

Only thing I didn't pick up until way late in the game and caused frustration at many points, Emily's far reach doesn't conceal you sneaking past people. I never knew this.

I only got caught by that once or twice (played... second easiest difficulty I think, some sort of normal).

While they frequently caught a glimpse of me that made them say something, you move so quickly through their cone that their alertness usually doesn't have a chance to get very high. I found that I couldn't reach past the center of their vision in good lighting, but if neither of those things were true there was no problem. (As long as you weren't trapped somewhere so that you were still around for their investigation).

This difference between Far Reach and Blink was actually the tipping point that led to me initially choosing Corvo for the first half Chapter, so I was definitely watching for the mechanic once I got Far Reach.

The Clockwork Mansion is as cool as I expected it to be. Naturally, I went in the walls pretty much immediately and haven't seen most of the level. But that's where I've found my fulcrum of enjoyment with these games: not in thoroughly exploring the entirety of a space but in a moment-to-moment journey toward a specific destination. My collection stats at the end of each level are abysmal, and I know I don't see most of the paths or spaces. But I don't care. I'm happier without that.

Emily's powers are getting to be more fun. I'm getting the hang of her shadow form, and domino is a fun ability. They also seem to have done a bit better job of keeping her powers balanced and interesting for both stealth and confrontation. Usually, games like this assume you'll be doing a lot more fighting (the bone charms still assume this) and focus all your upgrade options that way.

The whole thing still feels like a words-but-not-the-music riff on Thief: The Dark Project with some concessions to the modern gaming market (what if Garret had an upgradable skill tree of magic powers that made combat a viable choice? What if the world was one of those repugnant gritty fantasy worlds that's so in vogue right now?) But there are many worse games to riff on, so until Square-Enix decides to just remaster the first Thief game, this is a good enough placebo.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The Clockwork Mansion is as cool as I expected it to be. Naturally, I went in the walls pretty much immediately and haven't seen most of the level. But that's where I've found my fulcrum of enjoyment with these games: not in thoroughly exploring the entirety of a space but in a moment-to-moment journey toward a specific destination. My collection stats at the end of each level are abysmal, and I know I don't see most of the paths or spaces. But I don't care. I'm happier without that.

You've inspired me to go back in. I'd stalled just before the mansion. I also hadn't quite found the fun with the game and I've realised that I was trying too hard to do impressive stealth sequences that I can put on Youtube (I enjoy the process of capturing and editing footage. I don't really care about getting views. Which is just as well because I don't get many.) When I screwed up in one of my attempts to do a flawless sequence of takedowns I'd get annoyed and try again. Stealth games can be frustrating enough without adding another layer to that.

I've realised, like you, I just need to play the game in my own imperfect way and have fun. If anything YouTube worthy does occur it should happen naturally as part of a fun play through.

The Clockwork Mansion is definitely one of the hardest levels to flawlessly stealth, especially if you want to do the whole level without alerting your target. I reloaded saves quite often.

I found the Clockwork Mansion a lot of fun to fully stealth, but like Clocky, I immediately headed behind the scenes. I loved that level. I think the only part that bugged me was the naze to retrieve Sokolov because there were so few places to hide, but that's just my play style speaking.

Eleima wrote:

I found the Clockwork Mansion a lot of fun to fully stealth, but like Clocky, I immediately headed behind the scenes. I loved that level. I think the only part that bugged me was the naze to retrieve Sokolov because there were so few places to hide, but that's just my play style speaking.

I feel like I cheated a bit with that part of the level.

Spoiler:

Playing as Emily, when you stand on the pressure plate that changes the configuration of the walls, you can use Far Reach and a bit of forward momentum to propel yourself over the walls as they're changing. If you do that, you'll also interrupt the transition, and the walls will go back to their original configuration. With good timing, you can leap in and out and skip almost all of the cat and mouse with the soldier.

I appreciated what The Clockwork Mansion did, but it was far from my favourite level; I actually stalled on the game for a month, trying to slog through it.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

But that's where I've found my fulcrum of enjoyment with these games: not in thoroughly exploring the entirety of a space but in a moment-to-moment journey toward a specific destination. My collection stats at the end of each level are abysmal, and I know I don't see most of the paths or spaces. But I don't care. I'm happier without that.

This. I'd rather explore my own way through the space than exhaustively explore every point in those spaces. The point is to reach the target, and the large spaces facilitate many different approaches—I'll choose/grope my way towards one. Collectibles, schmollectibles, I was never short on funds anyway.

I think I recall that bone charms are randomly placed you find like 35 of 50 and so it changes for every run. I had the same issue where most never really applied to my play style.

I really enjoyed all the variety in the clockwork level. Had such a blast exploring and finding some fun paths around really hard sections. Was surprised when I found an odd back path to the target. Making me get the itch to hop back in.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The Clockwork Mansion is as cool as I expected it to be.

As it should be. After all, they literally named an entire level after you:

Arkane Studios wrote:

Q: What inspired the design for that level?
A: We misspelled the name of "ClockworkHouse" on the forums one day, and it just sort of took off from there.

That is, quite sincerely, one of my favorite posts ever on these forums.

Here are my adventures in the clockwork mansion edited down to a snappy twenty minutes.

I absolutely loved it. The mansion always feels like a very real, physical space and pleasingly elaborate without being frustrating.

A while ago I wasn't sure if I was going to finish the game. Now I can see playing through it several times. The mansion has been the turning point. Ironically I'm doing a lot better with stealth and combat now I've relaxed about what happens. I always prefer to do no kill or ghost runs on a second or third play through when I know the environments and am comfortable with powers and abilities.

I got through the Dust District and, like I suspect a lot of people here, opted to solve the Jindosh Riddle instead of killing either leader.

I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, I like the idea of the game essentially giving you an alternate homework assignment. Don't feel like doing this part of the game? Solve a puzzle. Likewise, if you don't feel like solving a puzzle, you can just go kill some people. It's also nice to have a non-lethal option that isn't just a fetch quest chain from one side of the map to the other.

On the other hand, what a boring puzzle. It's less a riddle than a lengthy process of elimination: if I know this about X, what does it tell me about Y? Repeat. I ended up creating a bunch of grids that I cross-checked against each other over and over until I had the answer.

It might just be that I've never liked that style of logic puzzle, but for some kind of "unsolvable" riddle, I expected something a bit more than an average Professor Layton puzzle.