Look Who's Dishonored Too - Catch-All

I was thinking something similar while playing through the first Dishonored this week. Everyone and everything you hear mentioned is someone or something you'll eventually encounter. While escaping the prison at the beginning, I was struck by posters for the Hounds Pit pub and the Golden Cat bathhouse. They added a level of detail to the world that made it more convincing as a real place, but of course both the Hounds Pit and the Golden Cat become significant locations later on. Likewise not only is everything invented by seemingly just one or two people, but you'll meet both on your way.

The result of this is that everything feels connected and foreshadowed, yes---when you go to the Golden Cat, it feels like a fulfillment of a long-standing promise---but it also shrinks the game world to a few city blocks and an enclosed social circle. It brings a definition and smallness to the world where this great empire has no history, no population or accomplishment beyond what's directly in front of you.

Thief faded out at the edges, suggesting a world beyond the boundaries of what you see yourself, but Dishonored is more like a colouring book. There are big lines to mark everything off, and you'll fill it all in eventually. There's little room for imagination and speculation.

Clockworkhouse I don't know how much you've used the heart on Npcs but if you do it has something pretty great to say for almost every location and npc in the game. It helped flesh out the world alot more for me. Really adds to the atmosphere it's such a great game, that I dismissed at first and after returning fell in love with. I hated the look, world and mechanics at first but I returned to it a few months after release and something just clicked for me, I now consider it one of the best games of last gen.

Unfortunate that the heart in part 2 seems to randomize descriptions for Npcs.

This game has some confusing naming conventions. There are a couple of charms that say they provide a bonus to or in conjunction with an assassination. Does that apply to fatal stealth kills only or does that also include incapacitations? The language is unclear because it also refers to all drop attacks as "drop assassinations".

Good comments, Clockworkhouse, but also keep in mind that nearly all of Thief is just hinting at things. They had so little to work with that they had no other choice.

In Dishonored, their geometry budget is so massive that they just build stuff. They actually made way more of their world than Thief even hints at.

Soft edges would definitely be better, a sense that there's a larger world outside what you can see, but there's just a fantastic amount of detail in their levels. In Thief, you have kitchens with a couple four-poly counters, and a few carrots and dishes scattered around; that's how you know it's a food prep area. In Dishonored, you have whole whale-slaughtering facilities, complete with a dangling live whale, and an obvious fair amount of thought put into how they would actually slice one up and process the meat and oil. Most places in Dishonored look more or less like actual places humans could really inhabit, could really and truly live or work in, and that's most emphatically not true of Thief. (it's better in T3, though; they got much closer to realistic level design, though the levels are the size of postage stamps.)

So, while what you're saying is true, I think you're not really giving them credit for the sheer intricacy of what they present. There's so much there that it's quite difficult to see it all.

Welp, that's 'Clean Hands' and 'Shadow' taken care of!

Next up....probably a Corvo, no powers run (now that I don't need to worry about not killing anyone or being spotted).

pyxistyx wrote:

Welp, that's 'Clean Hands' and 'Shadow' taken care of!

Next up....probably a Corvo, no powers run (now that I don't need to worry about not killing anyone or being spotted).

Where do you find the time?! I am in the Conservatory right now and I've played about 14 hours so far, it feels like I'm only halfway through this.

Some random thoughts:

The Clockwork mansion mission was absolutely brilliant by the way. I've seen that mission mentioned quite often so far, but what I really appreciate is the level of detail in that level. I accidentally took the very silent approach and it is just amazing to see the things behind the walls. I need to play a chaos run through this with all the levers action, because I feel like I've missed out on a lot of mechanical shenanigans.

Some powers feel WAY overpowered if you max them out. Shadow walk and domino make that game such a cakewalk at times that I try not to use these powers too often. Having said that, it's still a lot of fun to use them. Emily's powers are more interesting than Corvo's in the first game. I still need to find out in how far Corvo is different this time around.

Brainsmith wrote:

Where do you find the time?! I am in the Conservatory right now and I've played about 14 hours so far, it feels like I'm only halfway through this.

I find being one of those lazy art student types helps considerably

I just passed the 50 hour mark according to steam btw :O

Brainsmith wrote:

I've seen that mission mentioned quite often so far, but what I really appreciate is the level of detail in that level.

I was quite happily surprised on my second play through of that mission..

Spoiler:

First time through I pulled the lever, alerted him to my presence, etc as I imagine most people are expected to do first time through...SECOND play through I discovered by accident that you can break through the glass ceiling in that first room without first triggering anything, which made for a fun alternative as he tries to guess who keeps thwarting all his mechanisms!

As far as Corvo's powers go, he has most of his stuff from the first game instead of Emily's skills (whirlwind, possession, timestop, etc). I just started a Corvo run and he feels a lot like he did in the first game - which is actually quite disorienting after two runs of Emily.

pyxistyx wrote:
Brainsmith wrote:

Where do you find the time?! I am in the Conservatory right now and I've played about 14 hours so far, it feels like I'm only halfway through this.

I find being one of those lazy art student types helps considerably

I just passed the 50 hour mark according to steam btw :O

Brainsmith wrote:

I've seen that mission mentioned quite often so far, but what I really appreciate is the level of detail in that level.

I was quite happily surprised on my second play through of that mission..

Spoiler:

First time through I pulled the lever, alerted him to my presence, etc as I imagine most people are expected to do first time through...SECOND play through I discovered by accident that you can break through the glass ceiling in that first room without first triggering anything, which made for a fun alternative as he tries to guess who keeps thwarting all his mechanisms!

As far as Corvo's powers go, he has most of his stuff from the first game instead of Emily's skills (whirlwind, possession, timestop, etc). I just started a Corvo run and he feels a lot like he did in the first game - which is actually quite disorienting after two runs of Emily.

Third playthrough??! I need to finish my first!

pyxistyx wrote:

Welp, that's 'Clean Hands' and 'Shadow' taken care of!

Next up....probably a Corvo, no powers run (now that I don't need to worry about not killing anyone or being spotted).

You are my heroine. Well done!

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Thief faded out at the edges, suggesting a world beyond the boundaries of what you see yourself, but Dishonored is more like a colouring book. There are big lines to mark everything off, and you'll fill it all in eventually. There's little room for imagination and speculation.

I do very much prefer how Thief leaves so much of the world to the player's imagination (what does a night at the bear pits look like?). But I remembered this old article from The Escapist that convincingly shows that thematically, if not world-building-ly, there's room in Dishonored for rewarding speculation, namely on the importance of Corvo being a native of Mediterranean Karnaca:

See, Corvo's actions don't seem to line up with English honor culture but they do resemble the Italian vendetta, which is a fundamentally different from of honor combat. Duels are a display of courage in a structured environment, while the vendetta is retaliatory murder.

[...]

While it's an imperfect reading of the game, examining Dishonored through the lens of English honor culture highlights an aspect of the game's narrative that might otherwise not come to light.

Now to consider the implications for Dishonored 2, in terms of both the switch of the Gristolian in Karnaca, and of the native Karnacan at home. I don't know if those demonyms are right.

pyxistyx wrote:
Brainsmith wrote:

Where do you find the time?! I am in the Conservatory right now and I've played about 14 hours so far, it feels like I'm only halfway through this.

I find being one of those lazy art student types helps considerably

I just passed the 50 hour mark according to steam btw :O

:O That game only came out two weeks ago... It seems that Scottish universities don't give students enough work load any more... It used to be different in my time, I think... But then... I remember playing hundreds of hours of Civ3 back then, so my memory might be a bit off...
The only game I managed to play more than 50 hours this year was Xcom 2 and I played that over a considerably longer period of time. I have to admit that I try to play a bit of The Witcher 3 as well, so I guess I might have beeen a wee bit further if I had only played Dishonored 2 instead.

I tend to get a bit fixated on these sorts of games for a bit, at the expense of all other games, so when I'm not doing homework I'm mostly playing this at the moment

I have 120 hours overall in the first Dishonored.

Way behind you guys, but... wow. Clockwork House. (This level name must be so confusing for Clocky.) Just from curiosity reloading after a few minutes in twice, it is amazing how different things can play out.

Using Corvo for my first playthrough. (Nostalgia, definitely going to play both, probably multiple times to explore telling the Outsider to shove it, New Game+ and/or trying the powers I couldn't afford the first time, and maybe a Ghost run later.)

One tiny bit of side business: when Paolo visits the Black Market and you are told to hide, you can overhear a fun conversation, but if you don't mind a little chaos it is bad ass if you just step out and confront him. They put in a little cutscene conversation.

Final loser note: just before shutting things down yesterday, I solved the Jindosh Riddle myself by hand. It took about two hours...

As several folks have mentioned, the Clockwork Mansion is a masterpiece.

When I first set foot in there I thought there, it seemed so complex and so overwhelming that there was no way I could uncover all it's mysteries.

Three hours (and several beers) later, I had a rock solid mental map of the place and a strong understanding of how to navigate the environment and the threats.

Dishonored 1 always had exquisite world building through a combination of books, npc conversations and the heart (especially the heart!), but the Clockwork Mansion adds architecture to the storytelling mix and takes it over the top into something special.

Titanfall 2's Effects and Cause was going to be tough to beat for level of the year but I think Arkane pulled it off.

Feels like the story is just gaining momentum so I can't wait to see what's next.

I've only killed one person so far, and that was because they were sitting in a chair so I couldn't choke them out. Didn't occur to me until later that I could have thrown something to make them get up. Oops!

complexmath wrote:

I've only killed one person so far, and that was because they were sitting in a chair so I couldn't choke them out. Didn't occur to me until later that I could have thrown something to make them get up. Oops!

You can actually choke out people in chairs but you need to be almost around the front of them to do it, then you'll do the karate chop to the neck thing as if you were performing it in combat. It's a bit fiddly (and risky if you're going for the 'no alarms' achievement).

TrashiDawa wrote:

Titanfall 2's Effects and Cause was going to be tough to beat for level of the year but I think Arkane pulled it off.

Funny you say that, because there's a much more direct parallel later in Dishonored 2.

pyxistyx wrote:
complexmath wrote:

I've only killed one person so far, and that was because they were sitting in a chair so I couldn't choke them out. Didn't occur to me until later that I could have thrown something to make them get up. Oops!

You can actually choke out people in chairs but you need to be almost around the front of them to do it, then you'll do the karate chop to the neck thing as if you were performing it in combat. It's a bit fiddly (and risky if you're going for the 'no alarms' achievement).

Yeah, it's fiddly, I found it helps to try aiming my reticule at their head. Still nerve wracking if you're concerned somebody might walk in on you.

beeporama wrote:

Final loser note: just before shutting things down yesterday, I solved the Jindosh Riddle myself by hand. It took about two hours...

I did the same thing, using up lots of paper and scribbling before finally making a spreadsheet of sorts. I wondered how many other people would spend so much time in front of a game not actually touching the controls!

philucifer wrote:

I did the same thing, using up lots of paper and scribbling before finally making a spreadsheet of sorts. I wondered how many other people would spend so much time in front of a game not actually touching the controls!

Heh, yeah, took me about eight sheets of paper, and I think you ultimately have to draw out a grid or spreadsheet. I know there are traditional ways of doing these sorts of puzzles and I don't usually do them, but I think I worked out a system pretty close to it, with notes inside the grid spaces like "not snuff box, not war medal" etc.

Then I just went ahead and cleared the level anyway last night, for the actual game experience. Give me a puzzle and it's hard not to stop everything to try to solve it...

The 1.3 beta patch is out now, which does more optimizationing, adds descriptions to all the video settings, and lets you turn off motion blur. I normally like well-done motion blur since it can hide less optimal framerates, but when I'm in the city and getting 12 fps, it does the opposite and creates a slideshow of static motion blurred frames. So I was hoping for a setting like that. Merry Dishonored Christmas to me.

Also FYI: don't Far Reach yourself up next to a glass door, unless you want to make a loud sound.

oh, cool - motion blur is the one game effect that regularly makes me really disorientated.

Finally getting some decent performance with the new patch, feels a lot smoother and I seem to be able to bump up detail higher than before and still maintain around 30 FPS. Currently sneaking around the clockwork mansion mission, looking for a clockwork mansion.

Fired up the game on my new video card and the newest beta patch. I seem to be getting a solid 30fps. The problem is that I'm only getting 30fps, and I'm getting 30fps no matter what my detail settings. Ultra drops me down to ~24 sometimes, but everything else, all the way down to low, is 30. The new video card is an RX 480 8gb.

By contrast, DOOM with everything up to the max runs at 130fps.

A couple of the options will do that - vsync can be set to 30, or with vsync turned off the frame limiter takes over. Have you checked those? I can get up to 45, occasionally 60 in indoor areas - R9 270 2GB, mostly high settings with medium textures and the fancier effects turned off.

That's actually just about the same card I came from. I don't think I had either of those set to limit things, but I'll take a look.

Edit: Looks like it was vsync. With that enabled, it limits the framerate to 30. If I disable that and that frame limiter, it can go above 30, though I'm still not getting amazing results at the higher detail settings. I've never seen a game's vsync limit frame rate that much before.

It's definitely not normal, it seems to be based on increments of 15. After the last patch I had 20-30 but vsync locked it at 15 most of the time.

Comedy Dishonored 2 moments:

Around the exterior of Addermire, I sidle up behind a guard who had turned and was walking away from me, and choke him. His face and my arms fill the screen until he passes out and slides out of frame—revealing another guard sitting about four steps in front of us. My finger is already shooting towards the quickload key before I realize he's not looking in my direction, and in fact while facing perpendicular to me never turns to look this way. They both go snoozing in a dumpster.

Again around Addermire, last obstacle before the light, I Domino'ed two guards with the intention of sleep darting one (non-lethal yo), since sneaking past or causing a distraction weren't working. I wait for the guard I intend to dart to move away from the edge of the platform because you know I don't want him to accidentally fall to his death, but he thinks he spots me (protip: you're not necessarily still hidden while leaning), and then somehow falls anyway. This spooks the other guard but he drops dead the moment the first guard hits the rocks below. Quickload.

Edit: Sped up the 20 seconds of hiding in the shadows. Fun for me to play, not for you to watch.

That guy is really prone to falling off that ledge when he sees you - I must have reloaded 20 times trying to keep either him or myself alive. Eventually I noticed that if you wait a while he walks away from the ledge, which makes it a lot safer to draw his attention.
Not a problem for high chaos players of course

After roughly twenty hours, I finally finished the game on a (more or less) stealthy and non-lethal play through. The only lethal assassination was the Duke's, but he had it coming (and as I thought that that level was rather boring compared to the ones before, I had no patience looking for his double).

Spoiler:

For the most part of the game, I had a lot of sympathy for Delilah, that is the reason why I sent her off into her dream world in the end, but the game's message would have been more ambiguous and interesting if it had turned out that Delilah would have been a much better empress than Emily. Everything was a little bit too straight forward in the end for me. Surprise! The evil witch is indeed evil and a megalomaniac. Plus, she and her witches are an untidy bunch, as Dunwall looks like a real mess in the last level – and that can't just be the Overseers' failed coup attempt's fault.

That doesn't change the fact that I'll remember this game for quite some time. Not only because some of the levels were pure genius, but also because this is the first game I've played through on my PS4. Yay.