garion333 wrote:I don't think there was any shred of evidence that Belichick knew what was going on.
Yeah, but isn't that the entire idea of "ignorance is no excuse"?
With the taping he knew and purported to be the one who started it. Payton was shown to have known about the bounties.Right, but my takeaway from the phrase "ignorance is no excuse" is that it was a statement that Payton is responsible even if his denials were true.
Not that I am advocating a penalty for Belichick, mostly commenting on inconsistent Goodell logic.
I wills his stunt as Bill Nye the Science Guy put him square in the middle of the cover-up. There was no logic to the bullsh*t he uttered, and was moron line with making up a lie and hoping people will go away.
I hope we get a follow-up to this after all that's happened:
Ray Rice initially got a two game suspension--the difference being, in Brady's case, balls were involved.
I'd like to point out that the whole 4 game suspension thing is a red herring. Pats' 4th game is a Bye. So in effect it's a 3 game suspension. By "suspending" him for a non-existing game, they managed to inflate the perceived punishment by 33%.
Well if it states 4 game suspension than he will miss 4 games, over a 5 week period. If it says a 4 week suspension than you would be correct.
Yeah it's still 4 games. As NBC News was happy to point out last night, his first game will be week 6, Sunday Night Football on NBC ;), vs the Colts.
Goodell’s decision to tiptoe around Belichick lends credence to one of the popular rumors/urban legends surrounding the NFL’s curious decision to hastily destroy the SpyGate evidence surrendered by Belichick in 2007. As the rumor/urban legend goes, the Spygate-related information given to the NFL consisted of evidence of cheating not only by the Patriots but also by multiple other teams, in multiple other ways. As the folklore also goes, Belichick vowed to go public with chapter-and-verse detail about cheating throughout the league if the league were to mess with the Patriots again.While the NFL has once again messed with the Patriots, the NFL specifically didn’t mess with Belichick, even though the statements made to Payton in 2012 would seem to suggest that Belichick shouldn’t be completely exonerated.
Compared to Bountygate which involved no cheating the Patriots and more importantly Bellacheat got off easy
Nevermind. Sometimes its better to not engage.
I just hope Brady retires soon.
I wills his stunt as Bill Nye the Science Guy put him square in the middle of the cover-up. There was no logic to the bullsh*t he uttered, and was moron line with making up a lie and hoping people will go away.
I guess he doesn't think the ideal gas law really exists? The amount that the balls deflated could be determined to not have scientific backing depending on the gauges used but to say that a needle is the only way to change PSI is just silly.
Yeah, I guess it wasn't his faulty logic, but rather that he lot out lied when he said they ran tests that showed it to be true.
Nevermind. Sometimes its better to not engage.
I just hope Brady retires soon.
I'd actually like to hear how you feel about this. Ignore, say GG's comment, and engage the rest of us who are saying things like "wow that's a stiff penalty".
I thought 2 games, I am surprised at 4 games and really surprised at the 1st round pick. I expected 2 games for Brady, a team fine and maybe a late round pick if any. I wonder if Brady appeals and it gets reduced to 2 games.
Cobble wrote:Nevermind. Sometimes its better to not engage.
I just hope Brady retires soon.
I'd actually like to hear how you feel about this. Ignore, say GG's comment, and engage the rest of us who are saying things like "wow that's a stiff penalty".
Hard to ignore someone who compares deflated air pressure against a system for hurting people for cash prizes but I'll try.
The general opinion from us non vocal pats fans (and this is a reflection of my friends and family who live in the area as well as their accounts of friends and family) is that noone is defensive and pretty much everyone is saying "you have had a great run Tom and Bill but perhaps its time to go so we can put all this behind us". Its thought of as a global view stretching back to spygate. As fans, we all want to just move on. Of course this doesn't speak from everyone in New England and there are plenty of Bostonian blow hards acting like idiots, like there is in every market.
Deflate gate in particular is silly, as is the counter argument that everyone is out to get the patriots. The penalty, looked at objectively and not as a fan, is insane. This is moreso apparent when you compare it against the spouse abuse, rape allegations, child abuse, gun charges, etc etc etc that the NFL has been pretty light on over the past bunch of years. Combine that with the fact that the report does not contain real evidence and if this were a court of actual law would be pretty simply thrown out. That's not saying noone did anything of course, we all know they did. We know they lied about it after the fact as well, so sure punishments should occur. The severity of it though? Its pretty questionable.
Much of this noise though is coming from people who simply hate the organization and will bend over backwards to burn them. I do not include the NFL in that, that would be ridiculous. The media is another story. On one hand you have sports journalists who hate the pats who will write whatever they can to make them look at bad as possible. On the other hand you have journalists who understand that in the world of sports hating the Patriots is popular and articles written to blow them up further will generate clicks from supporters and defenders alike. Then you have those writing counter articles for the same reasons, either love for the team or wanting the clicks. This is creating this overblown ocean of garbage over a thing that is barely a thing.
Speaking specifically of that thing, many of us have played football. We all know that on every level of play balls are inflated or deflated by equipment managers. In the NFL after the story broke many qbs have stated that its something that happens. No its not legal, but like the filming of spygate, its something that happens more often than in one evil empire. This is not a defense of the tactic. Illegal is illegal. The filming is a huge advantage though and it needed to be stopped. Air pressure tampering is also an unfair advantage though not one that entire games can swing on. People that are clamoring that the Colts chances were ruined by the softer balls are just piling on. They won by 38, 3 of those TDs came on the ground along with 177 rushing yards. The colts couldn't score, regardless of air pressure. The balls did NOT decide the game.
Doesn't matter though, they tampered for sure and should be punished. The severity is pretty crazy though. The only way that punishment fits the crime is if they publicly acknowledge the patriots history of bending/breaking the rules. If they say because of spygate, because of faking injury reports, because of suspect play calling and maybe they are still on probation for spygate then it would be more fitting. But the NFL did not. This is simply for the air pressure in a game that was not decided by it and also something that exists in the nfl outside that game and that team. That is where its too much.
I have been a patriots fan my whole life. My grandfather worked for them and as a child I was often in the locker rooms and attended many practices/games. I once had thanksgiving dinner at the home of Craig james (yes I know he sucks as a person now) along with Steve Grogan and a few other players. I say this only to give perspective to the idea that I will always be a fan because I have it linked to many happy childhood memories. I was in the Navy when they beat the Rams, at a party with about 75 drunken squids and I was the ONLY one rooting for them. It was such an amazing experience. I watched them lose to the bears while sitting with my dad and my late grandfather.
I DON'T like what they have become. I don't like the weekly bullsh*t injury reports. I don't like the "push the rules as far as they can go" attitude. I think Brady outside of the game is a douchenozzle (though to be fair, most celebrities/millionaires are ). The only thing I want is for the current regime to move on, give us a few years to rebuild and then get excited to be a pats fan again. As it is now I agree with most of the criticism leveled against them. I don't agree with the folks who just spout hate for hates sake or perhaps are just so bitter about losing to them once they will levy any argument they can to convince others of how evil they are. In the end its just a sports team that none of us play for. Save your hate for things that deserve it.
Thats kinda how I feel about it. Forgive me if its all over the place. I am not a very good writer.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I don't particularly care for any one sports team enough to feel as strongly as you do. Sometimes I tend to continue to follow the Ravens just because it helps to know one team and gives me something to talk to my dad about. Lol.
Anyway,one point, the league did mention 2007 as a reason for the stiffer penalty:
Here, there are several factors that merit strong consideration in assessing discipline. The first is the club’s prior record. In 2007 the club and several individuals were sanctioned for videotaping signals of opposing defensive coaches in violation of the Constitution and Bylaws. Under the Integrity of the Game Policy, this prior violation of competitive rules was properly considered in determining the discipline in this case.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...
The penalty didn't exist in a vacuum and if the organization had been more forthright in the investigation their penalty wouldn't have been as stiff... unless of course Wells would've found his smoking gun.
I don't really understand the idea of pats fans tears. Most of us aren't crying. First off, we won. Secondly, a large majority of us want Brady to move on anyway.
I think the draft picks are the worst part.
I didn't read the details of the punishment, so I stand corrected. In that light perhaps the severity is justified. It still feels harsh though compared to punishments against AP and Ray Rice. I think The NFL just has a severe inconsistency problem
I like Tom Brady. I don't think he is a douche, at all. I think his responses to deflate gate were pretty poor, and between him and Belichick, they turned a blip into a full on scandal. Keith Olberman had it right. Just fess up and move the f*ck on.
I would love to see a complete end to comparing Brady suspension to Ray Rice and the like. Everybody agreed that the rice's two game suspension was ridiculous. Even the NFL came around and played fast and loose with the rules in order to increase it. The NFL deserved every bit of criticism it got on the domestic abuse penalties. So let's stop pretending that is the current standard. It's not.
The problem with deflate gate is that it forced the NFL on a crucial part of all professional sports, which is the integrity of the game. If they let teams mess around with the equipment, and then act like Brady and Belichick did when they got caught, it hurts the entire NFL product. You can't have fans wondering if one team has access to better equipment. Honestly, it is beyond idiocy that the NFL doesn't control the balls in the first place.
The penalties are not just because Brady and Belichick,along with Kraft, acted like fools in the wake. It's because that once the information started coming out, plausible deniability went out the window. It wasn't just one player doing something on the side, it was an orchestrated system.
And worst of all, it was a playoff game when this game to light. It just felt really disrespectful to the game. At this point, with how stuff has been going, the NFL is on the verge of gating the same tag as the NHL, being considered nothing more than a garage league. Goodie is still pretty horrible as the face of the NFL, but the mockery the Patriots have made of this latest issue, along with everything that happened in Spygate, means that for fans to continue to take the sport serious, they needed decently harsh penalties.
I don't really understand the idea of pats fans tears. Most of us aren't crying. First off, we won. Secondly, a large majority of us want Brady to move on anyway.
I think the draft picks are the worst part.
I didn't read the details of the punishment, so I stand corrected. In that light perhaps the severity is justified. It still feels harsh though compared to punishments against AP and Ray Rice. I think The NFL just has a severe inconsistency problem
Be careful what you wish for. You do remember what the Patriots were like before Brady right?
Yeah, not buying the spin that Patriots fanfare done with Brady.
What 'Deflate-Gate'? Sales of Tom Brady Merchandise Double
Tom Brady is not only the most-talked about football player right now. He's also the top-selling.According to Fanatics, the largest retailer of officially licensed sports merchandise, sales of Brady gear have spiked 100 percent since Monday, when the NFL announced he would be suspended for four games next season.
"Our sense is fans are rallying behind Brady and the Patriots and supporting them," said Jack Boyle, president of merchandising for Fanatics.
I am in Vermont for the week for work and the feeling around here is a mix between folks who feel victimized by Goodell and folk who are sincerely disappointed in Brady. Lots are finding it impossible to escape the conclusion that he straight up lied to the league, his coach, and his fans. There is a bit of confusion with what all this means but the feeling of profound disappointment is unmistakable. It is like they are in mourning.
I am in Vermont for the week for work and the feeling around here is a mix between folks who feel victimized by Goodell and folk who are sincerely disappointed in Brady. Lots are finding it impossible to escape the conclusion that he straight up lied to the league, his coach, and his fans. There is a bit of confusion with what all this means but the feeling of profound disappointment is unmistakable. It is like they are in mourning.
It's a good thing is the only time the Patriots have ever cheated. They'll only have to mourn this one championship.
I wonder how much influence the fact that Brady was one of the instigators of allowing visiting qb's prep their own balls before games had on the punishment handed down.
http://www.theonion.com/graphic/jimmy-garoppolo-informs-locker-room-attendants-how-50399
Oh man
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