Vermintide 1 + 2

Thanks CC for the great info. I just hit level 5 last night, so only one in 10 references made sense, but that's up from yesterday at level 3 where I only understood one in twenty. I have a feeling I will be reading and rereading that post, and getting more out of it each time.

Anyone here run Hard or Nightmare levels on a regular basis? I'm looking to group up and trying to see when everyone's available.

I think CC covered a good amount in his post. I would like to reiterate one of his favorite pet peeves though and some other tips.

When to Heal
On harder difficulties DO NOT use healing items unless you are bleeding out (on grey health). Because while bleeding out you will not get downed again, but simply die. Heal sooner than later, since temp health will be converted to actual health.

If you are in a group with heal share trinket, call out that you will be healing to avoid mishaps where two people healing at the same time. (this is more a reminder for me :D)

More Ogre Tips
Blocking will only reduce damage for some ogre attacks, so learning to dodge is important to keeping healthy.

If the ogre is locked onto you, you can avoid most of ogre's damage by dodging backwards and blocking right before he attacks. I like to time my dodge backwards when I see the ogre start to pull his arm back for the slap attack or when he raises his arms for a ground slam. Once you get the timing down you can kite an ogre by meleeing him once and dodging back continuously (ranged attacks can draw Ogre agro away) Also be mindful of walls and rats from behind while dodging.

This video gives a rough idea of when to time dodges and what happens when you mess up

Whoops I just drank the Grimoire...
If you have the grim, be careful when switching items so you don't accidentally drink or throw the grimoire. It might just happen...

Dakhath wrote:

Anyone here run Hard or Nightmare levels on a regular basis? I'm looking to group up and trying to see when everyone's available.

I ran Hard mode a few times but that was with pubs. I should be around Wed or Thurs night around 10pm EST.

Dakhath wrote:

Anyone here run Hard or Nightmare levels on a regular basis? I'm looking to group up and trying to see when everyone's available.

I think dodger, nubs, and I mostly run nightmare unless we're teaching more than one new goodjer at a time, or there's a grimoire contact on an annoying map. General rule is that 3 nightmare players can carry a level 0 newbie, though we're still a bit shaky during rat ogres. Dodger and I usually don't get online before kids go to bed Pacific time, and for at least a bit longer, Friday is l4d2 night. (Friday is going to be l4d2 night until can't get 8 for a game reliably)

A couple more tips that I just noticed setting up a new laptop.

In options:

Player outlines always on. Easily seeing where in an animation sequence a player (or tagged special rat) is useful, in addition to making it obvious how split the party is.
Disable intro video. Only one of them, but still.
Blood spatter off. It's games workshop, it's kind of overkill to the point of obscuring things.
Camera bob off
Lower opacity on self flames if you play wizard.

Complete all 13 non-dlc maps to unlock bounty board. You want quests and contracts. I always take orange trinket or red gear quests, but if you're new and an orange weapon type shows up for your primary class, go for it.

Pubbing... Is surprisingly not sucky, especially if you start with two goodjers. I join pub games all the time.

discoursian wrote:

Thanks CC for the great info. I just hit level 5 last night, so only one in 10 references made sense

Glad it's helpful! I haven't been a new player for almost a year, and haven't been a new l4d2 player for a few years, so it's hard to tell what references are unclear. Please ask!

kergguz wrote:

can't some of you lot move to the UK so I can actually play with real people for a change?

I don't know what uk-greece pings are like, but reach out to roo. At least his time zone will be closer. Our late nights are his early mornings.

captainchaos wrote:
kergguz wrote:

can't some of you lot move to the UK so I can actually play with real people for a change?

I don't know what uk-greece pings are like, but reach out to roo. At least his time zone will be closer. Our late nights are his early mornings.

UK to Greece pings are fine I think so I'll look out for him on the weekend, he's already on my friends list. Unfortunately I rarely game in the mornings, but if I do I'll keep an eye out for you guys. Definitely a newbie here, about 5 or 6 hours played.

Edit: Ah I've just realised you are Emmes on steam. Yes I've definitely seen you playing while I've been online some mornings, unfortunately it's just never been convenient to jump into a game of Vermintide. A 4 year old sitting on my knee makes that sort of thing difficult

kergguz wrote:

A 4 year old sitting on my knee makes that sort of thing difficult :P

Ya, expecting a 4 year old to learn how to block and dodge a rat ogre might be asking a bit much of him. Might have him start with something easier, like WoW raiding.

LtWarhound wrote:
kergguz wrote:

A 4 year old sitting on my knee makes that sort of thing difficult :P

Ya, expecting a 4 year old to learn how to block and dodge a rat ogre might be asking a bit much of him. Might have him start with something easier, like WoW raiding.

Dude, he owns mythic raids...

I've been tagging along on nightmare with nubs, emmes (cap'n chaos), and sir dodger and it's hysterically fun even if I die and/or semi-mess them up. Also they were quite generous in helping me quickly clear the 13 maps so I had everything unlocked.

I have a confession to make. I've never even tried to dodge. I don't even know what key does it. I s'pose I should look into that. Also, I pretty much only shield bash on top of people. That's it. Swinging my melee weapon seems counter-productive compared with knocking back 3-10 vermin at a time with a bigass shield. There was the one DLC map where I got to use the rifle, but...I feel like.. I AM THE SHIELD MAN, KOO KOO KAH CHOO. Pretty much.

Roo wrote:

I have a confession to make. I've never even tried to dodge. I don't even know what key does it.

Phew, I'm not the only one

Roo wrote:

I've been tagging along on nightmare with nubs, emmes (cap'n chaos), and sir dodger and it's hysterically fun even if I die and/or semi-mess them up. Also they were quite generous in helping me quickly clear the 13 maps so I had everything unlocked.

It's awesome that we have community members that are willing to do stuff like this!

I was telling Dakhath last night that I very much want to be the tag along little brother for when people run Hard and above maps. For some reason, I really like this game, and while I'm still waiting for all the skills to kick in, I'm having a heck of a lot of fun.

Roo wrote:

I have a confession to make. I've never even tried to dodge. I don't even know what key does it. I s'pose I should look into that. Also, I pretty much only shield bash on top of people. That's it. Swinging my melee weapon seems counter-productive compared with knocking back 3-10 vermin at a time with a bigass shield. There was the one DLC map where I got to use the rifle, but...I feel like.. I AM THE SHIELD MAN, KOO KOO KAH CHOO. Pretty much.

Ha! I think I didn't use it for about 35 levels either. It's not that needed as a shield user, and before I learned to block I was a bad bw. Our dodge distance is very low until you try out other weapons.

(Jump while backing up or sidestepping to dodge)

Use your rifle like a swashbuckler, until you end up on special rat sniping duty. Fire once as they close to melee range. If you get a blunderbuss, it might be more your style.

Also, as a shield user, blocking does reduce damage on everything rat ogre.

Dodging is pretty useful against the ogre. If you learn to time their swings, you can avoid damage most of the time. It's the other skaven swarming you that really have to be careful about.

captainchaos wrote:

[*] Blocking and shoving are 360 degree actions, so they're your best defense if you think there's something behind you.

Seriously? I did not know that That is very useful. Did I miss a tutorial?

Admittedly, it doesn't make sense. You block in front of you and someone stabs you in the rear and that's considered block. But yeah, that's how it works. There's no tutorial that tells you this other than the internets.

silentsod wrote:

That is very useful. Did I miss a tutorial?

There is no in-game tutorial to teach you this unless you count in-game chat.

A few more tips:

  • Your bots use whatever items the host has equipped for those characters.
  • Bots spawn dorf, empire, elf, wizard. Only way to get a saltzbot is if a player drops.
  • Bots are amazing at blocking and never miss one, but are easily trapped in block/shove loops until they run out of stamina and die horribly. Give dorf/empire shields, with healing/stamina traits.
  • Bots have perfect aim, if they ever stop blocking long enough to shoot. handgun/crossbow or other sniping weapons are best.
  • Bots are terribad at not standing in spit poison. Equipping the 60% globadier trinket is good mitigation.
  • Right click to hand your heal/str/speed potion to a teammate. Useful if they have a heal share.
  • Melee does not have friendly fire on any difficulty, only ranged. (See: Stacking as main viable cata strategy)
  • Man the ramparts is considered the easiest mission, and the most manageable with 3 bots.

Thanks to Emmes two nights ago and some randos last night, I finished all the core missions to start taking in quests. Then we actually finished a few missions on hard. This game feels like a weirdly good mix of L4D and Diablo; It has the mechanics of the former but the latter's pace. I'm pretty excited to see how things turn out in higher difficulties. I'm also wondering whether I should put the money down for DLC now, or wait a bit to see if the game has genuine longevity.

Thirteenth wrote:

I'm also wondering whether I should put the money down for DLC now, or wait a bit to see if the game has genuine longevity.

The main reason to buy dlc now now now is if you want to complete all contracts every day. Otherwise, you can wait and see.

If you have to pick one dlc, karak azgaraz is better (and newer) than drachenfels imho.

PS - I was getting bad lag on my first map with you, but it settled down on the second map. Not sure what happened.

Finally completed a nightmare run with Dodger and Nublovescakes, actually not that different other than taking more damage from rats, and the Rat Ogre is waaaaay scarier.

But with the trinket that mitigates grimoire damage and a health share trinket everything was groovy!

Thank you captainchaos and other Goojer whose name I'm blanking on (Shame!) for the intro to nightmare last night. Apologies for all the noob mistakes, but hopefully 97% shield uptime and 2 ranged shots through both successful runs were somewhat helpful. I feel my best contribution last night my cosplay as a pincushion for specials during Black Powder. However, I had a blast, and would love to do it again, if you'll have me and our schedules magically sync up.

Anyone up for some Vermintide Wed or Thurs night around 9:30/10 EST?

whispa wrote:

Anyone up for some Vermintide Wed or Thurs night around 9:30/10 EST?

I'll probably be on Thursday. I'm hoping to play Fiasco tomorrow!

I should be on tonight whispa, if you, or anyone else is interested in killing some rats. Unfortunately, I can't do tomorrow night.

I bounced off L4D 1 and 2 pretty hard. I just never really found them fun. The complete lack of any progression hurt a lot too. I do however enjoy games with progression and I love the Warhammer stuff. Does this game offer a different experience than L4D? Captainchaos suggested it and I've taken a brief look and I'm a little intrigued.

Homard wrote:

I bounced off L4D 1 and 2 pretty hard. I just never really found them fun. The complete lack of any progression hurt a lot too. I do however enjoy games with progression and I love the Warhammer stuff. Does this game offer a different experience than L4D? Captainchaos suggested it and I've taken a brief look and I'm a little intrigued.

Well, it has progression, and it has Warhammer stuff, I'd say it can't hurt to give it a try

I got stuck at work late, so no Fiasco. However, I should be home by 9, so I'll see if there is still a spot for skaven slaying.

It's hard for me to tell by reading descriptions and watching videos. I can see you get loot for missions but do you also level up the various races/jobs that you can be in the game? Does the loot chase have a long tail? Will I still be chasing good items after a few weeks of playing? My gaming is pretty limited, and uninterrupted multiplayer game time even more limited, so I need to get the lowdown before taking the plunge on a multiplayer only game.

Any xbone players?

Homard wrote:

I bounced off L4D 1 and 2 pretty hard. I just never really found them fun. The complete lack of any progression hurt a lot too. I do however enjoy games with progression and I love the Warhammer stuff. Does this game offer a different experience than L4D? Captainchaos suggested it and I've taken a brief look and I'm a little intrigued.

As a warning, the game I've played that this is most similar to is L4D2. We brought over a decent chunk of the goodjer l4d2 crew. If you could pin down what made l4d2 campaigns (not versus) un-fun, it'll be clear whether they apply to vermintide.

There is a RNG heavy loot grind in this game. Each class has about a dozen weapons, and you can bring one melee and one ranged with you. White = 0 traits, Green = 1 trait, Blue = 2 traits, Orange = 3 traits, Red = fixed roll Oranges, and basic damage goes up very slightly as your quality goes up.

Within a few hours, you can have a usable blue or orange for the class of your choice if you dive into the harder difficulties, or greens if you take it slow. I'm going to define a usable blue/orange as having two useful traits, that have been improved once or twice. If you have to have a particular orange weapon with the exact 3 traits of your choice... well I'm still chasing several after 200 hours played.

I have multiple oranges for every class that I have customized to my liking, but I'm still chasing after an orange axe and shield for my dorf,a couple of dlc weapons like the volley crossbow and pickaxe, and a couple of trinkets. I have a total of 3 red items, two of which I received by completing contracts.

If your goal is to maximize your loot per time spent:
1) Beat each of the 13 non-dlc missions to unlock the bounty board. This may or may not be fun for you, depending on how much you like your teammates trying to complete things quickly, and not stopping to enjoy the map.
2) Try to complete both key contracts each day. There are 19 maps, with each dlc paywall costing $10 and unlocking 3 maps, so you may not be able to grab the contracts if you don't have dlc. You can save up to three contracts if your play time comes in chunks.
3) Use the weapons that drop on your missions, and be flexible about playing classes based on which ones have the best items at first. Use the contract rewards to unlock the traits at the forge.

Thanks for the description captainchaos. Sounds pretty good. L4D didn't grab me mainly because the actual gameplay wasn't that fun. I like shooters, but the actual run and gun shooting of L4D was very bland and samey. Vermintide looks like, with the different weapon choices, it would be enjoyable. I'll probably give it a try.

Thanks again for taking the time to describe the underlying systems!