Darkest Dungeon Catch All

Vrikk wrote:

"As the enemies fall, hope rises..." made me cringe during my most recent fight. It's like the game was mocking me for feeling like I'm making progress.

Yeah, it will point out how quickly things can change when your party takes a lot of health/sanity damage in short order. Not sure if it's mocking me or what. How do we know the game is using a random number generator, and not just playing us all for fools? *runs off into the dark mumbling incoherently*

Darkest Dungeon seems like it might be one of those games where the conversation surrounding it is almost essential to fully enjoying it.

I'm loving the game now, but for the first hour or two I was just getting the sh*t pounded out of me. That was partly due to a long streak of plain old rotten luck, but also partly due to a lot of bad decisions: not understanding the importance of marching order, not understanding enough about the strengths and weaknesses of each class to build an effective party, not understanding the way provisions work, and so on. After a particularly brutal party wipe on a beginner quest, I hit up the Darkest Dungeon subreddit for some general advice, and now I am enjoying myself much more. The early game in Darkest Dungeon is plenty difficult enough without the artificial added difficulty that comes from failing to teach the rules to the player. I hope Red Hook figures out some elegant way to more thoroughly educate new players, even if it's just a fat pdf manual or something.

I didn't even notice the yellow and red dots on the abilities on my first couple of attempts.

I didn't even notice the yellow and red dots on the abilities on my first couple of attempts.

Me neither.

Its kind of exciting how powerful messing with the enemy's rank order is. I've gotten to enjoy using the Occultist to Pull guys like the crossbowmen up close and shuffle melee dudes to the back. The game teaches you that by randomly shuffling your order when you get surprised and just completely f*cking over your first round or two. Brutal education is a tenet of this game, I suspect.

polypusher wrote:

Its kind of exciting how powerful messing with the enemy's rank order is. I've gotten to enjoy using the Occultist to Pull guys like the crossbowmen up close and shuffle melee dudes to the back. The game teaches you that by randomly shuffling your order when you get surprised and just completely f*cking over your first round or two. Brutal education is a tenet of this game, I suspect.

True, I just wish the effect was more predictable. Pulling crossbowmen is kind of obvious and memorable (they seem to have only a couple of skills - one ranged, one gimped melee) but for other enemies it's not that obvious and some of them are equally dangerous in spot 4 as in spot 2.

It is cool though to see "Pass" over the head of a melee enemy pushed to spot 4.

How do people use the leper? The couple of runs I did with one, I didn't like the class. He seemed to have high damage, but low accuracy, and I didn't really like the inconsistency that goes with that.

deftly wrote:

How do people use the leper? The couple of runs I did with one, I didn't like the class. He seemed to have high damage, but low accuracy, and I didn't really like the inconsistency that goes with that.

I actually use one of my lepers quite a bit. The lack of accuracy can be problematic if you get a series of bad beats, but the high damage can be a huge boon, especially paired with one of his special abilities post camp (which improves accuracy). Throw in a crit buff from the Vestral (I think) and you've got a character who can be just devastating (90% to hit on a front line guy and 30-50 damage on a crit, which come around quite often w/the buff). Also the self-heal ability can be a life-saver when you need your Vestral or Occultist to focus their healing on other party members.

One tactic I like to use is to whittle down a pack to one moster with low stun and speed, use my high speed plague doctor to get a stun on him and then use whatever healing abilities I have on hand (Vestral, Occultist's Wyrd Healing, and Leper's self heal) to fortify my party with an essentially free attack round.

Right now the game seems to be pushing us towards groups with lots of stun, high crit and high acc. Yes, you can buff the Leper, even IIRC Lepers themselves have the acc buff skill but you are essentially wasting a turn on one character. Plus buffs only last a couple of rounds.

The game is still not balanced, obviously, it's still a beta even though it's so highly polished on the outside. I think a lot of things will change as the game develops but, for now, stun, crits and no torch (for +crit bonus) are your friends - stun means you receive less damage, crits mean you heal your stress plus damage of course.

ubrakto wrote:

Also the self-heal ability can be a life-saver when you need your Vestral or Occultist to focus their healing on other party members.

That's another thing, I'm into my 14th week of my second game, and I've still never had an Occultist or Man-at-Arms come up for recruitment (I didn't even realize they existed until I read your post and went and looked up the classes). On the other hand, one of my Vestals is really taking up the slack and has about 7 good traits to just one bad one.

Hedinn wrote:

Plus buffs only last a couple of rounds.

True, but I was referring to camping buffs, and those last, I think, until the next camp and can have a huge impact.

@deftly - Yeah, I'm not sure if that's part of the design (like having certain classes come up rarely in an XCOM game) or something they intend to balance, but for me it's Jesters and graverobbers that, in the first couple months, hardly ever showed up. Barbarians (or whatever that class is), for a long while, almost never appeared for me either. Occultists I see all the time. (I don't think I've ever even seen a Man at Arms, come to think of it.)

I really do love having a Vestral in the group. Between the heal, the healing attack, and the stun ability, she's got something for almost every situation. (And she has a couple of frontline abilities you can put in the mix should she get pulled forward.)

I rage-quit and rage-uninstalled this game last night. I'll give it another go, but the RNG was being such an ass that I was getting murdered by like the first encounters in a dungeon. I need to get over the thought that if I lose a party that has been around with me, I'm screwed. I've played too much X-Com and Fire Emblem though. We will see. I definitely like what I've played so far.

I had no idea that most interactables inside the dungeons give better loot if you use some specific item on them. Like using Herbs on Iron Maiden. I never took stuff like keys and herbs with me.

The word is you are not even supposed to open most containers if you don't have a proper item for them because risk/reward odds are not in your favor.

For the complete list of containers and their "keys" look here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdunge...

BTW IMO inability to take stuff like keys into a next mission is stupid. Making sure you keep a sufficient supply of these items is planning and money management. Buying keys and hoping the dungeon will randomly place a container for them in the dungeon is stupid, mindless and not fun gambling, especially when some containers are pretty rare.

Hedinn wrote:

I had no idea that most interactables inside the dungeons give better loot if you use some specific item on them. Like using Herbs on Iron Maiden. I never took stuff like keys and herbs with me.

The word is you are not even supposed to open most containers if you don't have a proper item for them because risk/reward odds are not in your favor.

For the complete list of containers and their "keys" look here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdunge...

BTW IMO inability to take stuff like keys into a next mission is stupid. Making sure you keep a sufficient supply of these items is planning and money management. Buying keys and hoping the dungeon will randomly place a container for them in the dungeon is stupid, mindless and not fun gambling, especially when some containers are pretty rare.

Whoa, I had no idea about any of that key/item stuff.

Vrikk wrote:

I rage-quit and rage-uninstalled this game last night. I'll give it another go, but the RNG was being such an ass that I was getting murdered by like the first encounters in a dungeon. I need to get over the thought that if I lose a party that has been around with me, I'm screwed. I've played too much X-Com and Fire Emblem though. We will see. I definitely like what I've played so far.

I agree, this is one of the things the need to improve on. Getting screwed up by bad RNG is ok (and can be even fun) only if you can bounce back and recover. When in one fight, AI decides to gang up on your healer in 4th slot, gets 3-4 crits on her in a row, killing her and sending everyone else into affliction and all you can do is sit, watch and click that "abandon quest" icon, it's not much fun. Also not fun is playing and hoping this wouldn't happen the next time. And maybe it won't. Or maybe it will but there is nothing YOU can do to prevent it.

Or maybe it's a different kind of game, in which you are supposed to shrug off, dismiss f*cked up characters (or invest in their expensive recovery), get a bunch of new expendable characters and grind the easy dungeons with them until eventually your A team is again ready for an adventure. Although this kind of game becomes kind of grindy and less personal, since you don't get attached to your people anymore, you just hire/dismiss them and keep grinding gold.

[edit] BTW a guy with Speed 0 should never get his turn before a guy with Speed 5 under any RNG because otherwise what's the point.

And also enemies with 0 resist to Stun or Blight should never resist it. Especially 2 times in a row. It makes planning and thinking worthless.

I have restarted so many times. The RNG is brutal in this game. I do like the game quite a bit, but I find myself playing in shorter and shorter sessions. I'll play a mission, maybe two and quit. Maybe come back an hour and a few drinks later, play another mission or two, then I am done for the night.

Hedinn wrote:

I had no idea that most interactables inside the dungeons give better loot if you use some specific item on them. Like using Herbs on Iron Maiden. I never took stuff like keys and herbs with me.

The word is you are not even supposed to open most containers if you don't have a proper item for them because risk/reward odds are not in your favor.

For the complete list of containers and their "keys" look here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdunge...

BTW IMO inability to take stuff like keys into a next mission is stupid. Making sure you keep a sufficient supply of these items is planning and money management. Buying keys and hoping the dungeon will randomly place a container for them in the dungeon is stupid, mindless and not fun gambling, especially when some containers are pretty rare.

Thank you for posting that link. I've spent most of my time not knowing what some of the items did and had no idea some others could be used as described in that link. Hopefully Red Hook intends to do more to teach the game to players in the final release.

Oh yeah, the right items thing is *huge*. I don't usually bother with the herbs, because they tend to give you food. But I always bring 2-3 keys for chests (don't use them on unlocked non-heirloom chests), 2-3 shovels for blockages (and smashing open cabinets if I'm out of keys), and 1-2 holy water.

I'd been using http://darkestdungeon.gamepedia.com/Curio. Probably should have mentioned it sooner, but I thought it might be spoilerish.

Edit: Going by those lists, I must be misremembering the confession booth results.

Edit2: Now I remember. Using a torch with a pile of scrolls will remove a negative quirk, which is awesome, because it will save you the money and time of a trip to the sanatarium.

Yeah, funny how most of the things have more than 50% odds to give you nothing or something bad if opened without a "key". Cruel game.

So based on the above info, here are the recommendations based purely on the number of containers in the list without knowing how often these containers can appear. They probably have different spawn rates, making some of them more rare than others, who knows.

Also assuming you will always have a few torches and shovels around.

All: Key (1), Antivenom (1)
Ruins: Holy (4), Key (2), Herbs (2)
Warrens: Holy (3), Herbs(3), Bandages (1)
Weald: Holy (2), Antivenom (2), Key (1), Bandages (1)

Basically, taking a few Keys, Holy Water and Herbs (switch for Antivenom in Weald) should pay for itself.

And never open Books and Bookshelves

Have bit on this one, Enjoying it quite a bit.

Finally got a chance to spend some time and get Wine setup on my Linux work machine. Took some extra finagling to get this running in particular, but I'm really happy with it

Just picked this up yesterday, I wasn't completely sold until I watched a 10 minute "Let's Play" on it, looked really interesting. I spent most of my day off playing it and enjoyed it quite a bit. My first game ended up being an absolute massacre. I thought I was making good progress until I lost a critical mission, all my best characters and I was bankrupt. I'm doing much better in my second game. I have no deaths, beat the first few bosses and have several level 3 characters and some decent money in the bank. My recommendations

1. Crowd Control - This is probably the most important aspect of combat. You must mitigate the ability of the enemy to do damage or provoke stress to your party members. Personally, I use stun abilities to manage this. There are two classes that have the ability to stun the first two enemies (Hellion) and the last two enemies (Plague Doctor), I have a Vestal for healing and a champion for damage dealing. Most rounds, I'm able to stun either the front two, back two, or both.

2. Money Management - Save your money, ensure you have a decent stockpile before making any purchases. My recommendation would be to never go below 10-15k gold at any time. If you wipe a party or two, you will desperately need that money for torches, food, sanity restoration etc. My first game, I was put in a place where I was bankrupt and trying to do dungeons with no food or torches, not good.

3. Healing - Use the stun abilities to block the enemies attack for a turn while you use your vestal to heal characters. Always try to keep your characters as close to 100% health as possible as there is no out of combat healing except food related (1hp per food) and camping (only available in longer missions). Always heal, every turn.

Those are really the three golden rules of the game, as far as I can tell. As far as building upgrades, I ensured I opened the ability to upgrade character skills as they level. An extra 5% per skill to hit may not seem like much, but it seems to make a large difference.

I guess the only other thing I would say is simply to not waste resources on bad characters. Don't try to restore the sanity of some level 0/1 character with bad traits, best to just trash them and go with someone new. Once someone hits level 2, I definitely try to start investing in keeping them around if possible.

As for things I would like to see from the game going forward

1. Double or triple the dungeon voiceovers. There is a pretty good variety now, but if you play a marathon session over a day, you hear the same ones over and over quite a bit. I'd like to have more variety. Overall though, the voice work is excellent, well acted and really brings you into the game.

That's really it for now, I think the game is great for an early access release. Unlike a lot of games, this actually feels like a finished product, not some half-working piece of software that is years from release. If you like D&D, I think you might like this game. It has the feel of a tough pen and paper campaign. The crowd control elements really remind me of playing D&D.

Oh, and as the poster above stated, don't read books, ever.

I really want to get this. I'm traveling the next two weeks and wondering whether I should, and if it could, be installed and working on my work laptop. Need to take a look at minimum settings. Seems like something I would enjoy after being late to the game but loving FTL.

bigred wrote:

I really want to get this. I'm traveling the next two weeks and wondering whether I should, and if it could, be installed and working on my work laptop. Need to take a look at minimum settings. Seems like something I would enjoy after being late to the game but loving FTL.

Doesn't seem like it should require too much, but I warn you that it might be a bad idea from a "making sure you get enough sleep while travelling for work" perspective.

MikeSands wrote:
bigred wrote:

I really want to get this. I'm traveling the next two weeks and wondering whether I should, and if it could, be installed and working on my work laptop. Need to take a look at minimum settings. Seems like something I would enjoy after being late to the game but loving FTL.

Doesn't seem like it should require too much, but I warn you that it might be a bad idea from a "making sure you get enough sleep while travelling for work" perspective.

What he said.

Am I the only one getting destroyed in veteran missions? I've beaten all 3 bosses with a couple parties had a good stock pile of money going. My main 2 parties are both now all level 3. I have max level of the skills i use the most on them (4 at this level). My damage dealers have lvl 3 weapons and all have level 2 armor. I am reading about allot of people using masses of crowd control maybe that is my issue. Just weird because i was clearing no problem on the green missions but the yellow ones I get 2-3 attack camps in and i'm wiped out of everything.

I failed the first couple veteran missions I ran until I came up with a party composition I really liked, then I facerolled through them, and without crowd control. I think you just need to find a group that really works well together. Also, a couple of stupid bandit fusilier crits and you're going to be having problems regardless.

I've restarted the game now that I know what I'm doing. Seems to be running a lot smoother than my first try!

That said, the Swine Prince dstill killed three of my adventurers, although the survivor got him in the end.

escher77 wrote:

Am I the only one getting destroyed in veteran missions? I've beaten all 3 bosses with a couple parties had a good stock pile of money going. My main 2 parties are both now all level 3. I have max level of the skills i use the most on them (4 at this level). My damage dealers have lvl 3 weapons and all have level 2 armor. I am reading about allot of people using masses of crowd control maybe that is my issue. Just weird because i was clearing no problem on the green missions but the yellow ones I get 2-3 attack camps in and i'm wiped out of everything.

I've only lost one person and I have about 5 level 4 characters and a bunch of level 3. I think crowd control really is the name of the game. My party composition is Vestal, Plague Doctor, Hellion, Champion/Crusader (can't remember their name). If I'm going for a boss, I might swap out someone for a Bounty Hunter. Anyway, mid-level dungeons, enemies ten to be more resistant to stun. I always find that the rear row of enemies still have relatively low stun resist, this is where the plague doctor comes in handy. He can give you some crowd control (stun AOE for back two slots) while you work on the stun resistant front line members. Then, when they get pushed to the front, the hellion can help AOE stun as well.

Some people go for all out damage, that is a viable strategy, especially against boss monsters (who are very stun resistant). You can't out heal damage, sometimes its just best to kill things quickly.