North Korea Internet Outage

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...

I am not sure if this is a country or a group. However, I am very pleased that something is being done.

This seems like it's going to be the first in a long series of exchanges, some of which we may not be so happy about. The world has been preparing for this form of conflict for quite some time. Now that the first dominos are falling on a larger scale, who knows how or if the rest are going to topple. I can easily see China and Russia separately taking advantage of any opportunities that pop up.

We may not be happy about some of the exchanges now. However, I do feel that at some point something needs to be done. Often doing nothing will result in far worse things then doing something that has some bad repercussions.

Don't get involved, Canada. Don't get involved, Canada. Don't get involved, Canada. Don't get involved, Canada.

Am I alone in really liking this? It seems like a perfectly rational state response to a state's internet attack. If some country flew planes in to some other country and stole valuable property, removing the thieving country's ability to fly seems like a fair response; especially if that country stated that they would be flying back in later to steal more. I'll assume that this is the work of the US Government, and I am going to be very happy to see this country defend its citizens and their property against a foreign threat. I'll really even get to enjoy it, since it is the rare case of a country flexing its muscles without a body count to go with it.

Oh hey, South Korea changed their wifi password finally!

(I really wish I could take credit for that one)

Atras wrote:

Am I alone in really liking this? It seems like a perfectly rational state response to a state's internet attack. If some country flew planes in to some other country and stole valuable property, removing the thieving country's ability to fly seems like a fair response; especially if that country stated that they would be flying back in later to steal more. I'll assume that this is the work of the US Government, and I am going to be very happy to see this country defend its citizens and their property against a foreign threat. I'll really even get to enjoy it, since it is the rare case of a country flexing its muscles without a body count to go with it.

Part of me wants to feel the same way, but I suspect their response once they get their internet restored is probably going to override that.

You’re a console cowboy. The prototypes of the programs you use to crack industrial banks were developed for Screaming Fist. For the assault on the Pyongyang computer nexus. Basic module was a Nightwing microlight, a pilot, a matrix deck, a jockey. We were running a virus called Mole. The Mole series was the first generation of real intrusion programs.
Wintermute wrote:

Soon...

pyxistyx wrote:

Oh hey, South Korea changed their wifi password finally!

(I really wish I could take credit for that one)

That is hilarious, though!

Atras wrote:

Am I alone in really liking this? It seems like a perfectly rational state response to a state's internet attack. If some country flew planes in to some other country and stole valuable property, removing the thieving country's ability to fly seems like a fair response; especially if that country stated that they would be flying back in later to steal more. I'll assume that this is the work of the US Government, and I am going to be very happy to see this country defend its citizens and their property against a foreign threat. I'll really even get to enjoy it, since it is the rare case of a country flexing its muscles without a body count to go with it.

I certainly agree. However, I also agree that these action's will probably then create retaliation. Rarely does the person who starts a non physical fight ever let retaliation happen without escalation.

escher77 wrote:
Atras wrote:

Am I alone in really liking this? It seems like a perfectly rational state response to a state's internet attack. If some country flew planes in to some other country and stole valuable property, removing the thieving country's ability to fly seems like a fair response; especially if that country stated that they would be flying back in later to steal more. I'll assume that this is the work of the US Government, and I am going to be very happy to see this country defend its citizens and their property against a foreign threat. I'll really even get to enjoy it, since it is the rare case of a country flexing its muscles without a body count to go with it.

I certainly agree. However, I also agree that these action's will probably then create retaliation. Rarely does the person who starts a non physical fight ever let retaliation happen without escalation.

The thing that is the most interesting to me is that apparently the 4 'pipes' North Korea uses for internet access all go through China. This tells me that we are sophisticated enough to do this around China, or we have China's permission to do so. Since China is just about the only ally North Korea has, I suspect any retaliation will be minimized.

The larger point is that we can't really worry about what they might do to get back at us. We have the bigger... everything, really, and there isn't anything they an do that we can't punish them for.

Atras wrote:
escher77 wrote:
Atras wrote:

Am I alone in really liking this? It seems like a perfectly rational state response to a state's internet attack. If some country flew planes in to some other country and stole valuable property, removing the thieving country's ability to fly seems like a fair response; especially if that country stated that they would be flying back in later to steal more. I'll assume that this is the work of the US Government, and I am going to be very happy to see this country defend its citizens and their property against a foreign threat. I'll really even get to enjoy it, since it is the rare case of a country flexing its muscles without a body count to go with it.

I certainly agree. However, I also agree that these action's will probably then create retaliation. Rarely does the person who starts a non physical fight ever let retaliation happen without escalation.

The thing that is the most interesting to me is that apparently the 4 'pipes' North Korea uses for internet access all go through China. This tells me that we are sophisticated enough to do this around China, or we have China's permission to do so. Since China is just about the only ally North Korea has, I suspect any retaliation will be minimized.

The larger point is that we can't really worry about what they might do to get back at us. We have the bigger... everything, really, and there isn't anything they an do that we can't punish them for.

You're talking like 1) this is a state-sanctioned "retaliation" and 2) this is difficult to do.

In the original article, it says that it appears that North Korea's DNS servers are being DDoS'd and that pretty much anyone could pay $200 to accomplish this.

This kind of stuff is not difficult. Taking down South Korea would be a totally different story, but North Korea has barely any internet infastructure. Taking down their stuff via denial of service attacks is pretty trivial.

Yes, but you often punish the peasants for the king's mistake.

pyxistyx wrote:

Oh hey, South Korea changed their wifi password finally!

(I really wish I could take credit for that one)

My first thought was that someone in North Korea neglected to do File-->Save As on their 5mb highfive.bmp file in Paint and convert it to a .jpg before sending it around.

escher77 wrote:

Yes, but you often punish the peasants for the king's mistake.

Not in the case of North Korea, a country that heavily restricts access to the internet. The entire country has a little over 1,000 IP addresses. The only people trusted with internet access are senior government officials.

And I love how we've already gotten over our intelligence agencies lying their asses off to us and are implicitly trusting them that North Korea was the culprit based off of zero evidence (and flying completely in the face of what other security experts are saying).

I mean it's not like the FBI has a reputation for being technologically sophisticated. After 9/11 it came out that they were so backwards that they couldn't even email attachments. Now we're suddenly supposed to believe that they have the best cyber sleuths out there?

They go knock on the door of the Puzzle Palace when they need special help (track a cyber-attack, say, or getting a Flash update without the McAfee addon).

OG_slinger wrote:
escher77 wrote:

Yes, but you often punish the peasants for the king's mistake.

Not in the case of North Korea, a country that heavily restricts access to the internet. The entire country has a little over 1,000 IP addresses. The only people trusted with internet access are senior government officials.

And I love how we've already gotten over our intelligence agencies lying their asses off to us and are implicitly trusting them that North Korea was the culprit based off of zero evidence (and flying completely in the face of what other security experts are saying).

I mean it's not like the FBI has a reputation for being technologically sophisticated. After 9/11 it came out that they were so backwards that they couldn't even email attachments. Now we're suddenly supposed to believe that they have the best cyber sleuths out there?

I did not mean at all that this action was against the peasants. I more meant that if this keep's escalating it will end up being like that which is when we will run into an issue.

escher77 wrote:

I did not mean at all that this action was against the peasants. I more meant that if this keep's escalating it will end up being like that which is when we will run into an issue.

Again, that assumes that 1) North Korea was actually behind the hack, and 2) that this DDoS attack was part of the US's official covert response and not just something Anonymous or 4chan did for the lulz.

And there's not a whole lot we can do to hurt North Korean civilians more than its own government does. The US hasn't provided any foreign aid to North Korea for the past three years--not food, medicine, fuel oil, or anything. Any sanction we'd possibly levy would just be a continuation of the status quo: give them nothing.

pyxistyx wrote:

Oh hey, South Korea changed their wifi password finally!

(I really wish I could take credit for that one)

It's still the best explanation I've seen all day.

Demosthenes wrote:
Atras wrote:

Am I alone in really liking this? It seems like a perfectly rational state response to a state's internet attack. If some country flew planes in to some other country and stole valuable property, removing the thieving country's ability to fly seems like a fair response; especially if that country stated that they would be flying back in later to steal more. I'll assume that this is the work of the US Government, and I am going to be very happy to see this country defend its citizens and their property against a foreign threat. I'll really even get to enjoy it, since it is the rare case of a country flexing its muscles without a body count to go with it.

Part of me wants to feel the same way, but I suspect their response once they get their internet restored is probably going to override that.

IMAGE(http://assets.adamriff.com/images/randy_marsh.jpg)

Being pleased over any sort of aggression physical or electronic is juvinile. A better solution is resolution or if resolution is impossible then a full on "let's end this" action is required.

This feels more like instigation which is dumb. We aren't 12.

Cobble wrote:

Being pleased over any sort of aggression physical or electronic is juvinile. A better solution is resolution or if resolution is impossible then a full on "let's end this" action is required.

This feels more like instigation which is dumb. We aren't 12.

Your bum is 12.

On a slightly more serious note, we can't be certain of the who and why. Perhaps this was a covert American strike on DPRK's capacity to carry out further attacks. It's possible China shut down their pipeline on a short-term basis.

We've seen that resolution in any North Korean matter is indeed impossible, and "let's end this" looks very ugly indeed.

If we are going to start a war over this crap, we better have better evidence this time than fcuking aluminum tubes or fictional yellow cake.

Not buying another 3000 dead American servicemen on credit again.

And the duffelblog wins again.

FORT BRAGG, N.C. — A network security specialist conducting an inspection of Command Sgt. Maj. Gregory York’s office computer has uncovered 84 pieces of malware along with 200 gigabytes of photo and video pornography the senior enlisted leader alleges was uploaded by North Korean hackers, Duffel Blog has learned.

“Those sons of bitches,” York told reporters, angrily pointing out the obvious and cowardly attempt to besmirch the reputation of his unit’s most senior enlisted man. “They don’t know who they’re messing with. And if they think for one second that I, or this unit, will be cowed by their attempts to undermine our reputation, they’d better think again.”

While malware had been distributed throughout the computer, the pornography was located in a folder labeled ‘Training Schedule’ on the desktop and was organized into sub-folders by type, production studio, and video quality. “The first tip-off we got that it was the North Koreans was all the bondage stuff,” York explained. “I mean, it’s a pretty straight line. North Korea; totalitarianism; prison camps; super-hot sex stuff. It’s kind of sad if you think about it.”

Oh god, we're going to war so this guy can continue to hide his kinks.

It may also be worth pointing out that knocking a whole country offline amounts to a form of collective punishment; because almost everyone in NK who has real Internet access will be closely tied to the regime, it may not be as bad as it otherwise would be, but it's a frightening precedent. It'll get used as an excuse and a rationale if we want to deploy similar DOS attacks against more charismatic countries.

I don't think we should be in the business of attacking anyone's computers. We should be trying to make the world safer, not more dangerous.

Malor wrote:

It may also be worth pointing out that knocking a whole country offline amounts to a form of collective punishment; because almost everyone in NK who has real Internet access will be closely tied to the regime, it may not be as bad as it otherwise would be, but it's a frightening precedent. It'll get used as an excuse and a rationale if we want to deploy similar DOS attacks against more charismatic countries.

I don't think we should be in the business of attacking anyone's computers. We should be trying to make the world safer, not more dangerous.

That ship sailed a long time ago. Whether it is carpet bombing of the Nazis or the taking down of the Serbian power grid during the Balkan War, we are really good at collective punishment.

My biggest issue is that this all feels like a run up to another war on dubious "evidence". And frankly, I have had enough of that.

Demosthenes wrote:

Oh god, we're going to war so this guy can continue to hide his kinks.

Just to be clear:

Spoiler:

You know that's a satire site, right?

Ya?

OG_slinger wrote:
escher77 wrote:

I did not mean at all that this action was against the peasants. I more meant that if this keep's escalating it will end up being like that which is when we will run into an issue.

Again, that assumes that 1) North Korea was actually behind the hack, and 2) that this DDoS attack was part of the US's official covert response and not just something Anonymous or 4chan did for the lulz.

Oh come on. It was clearly an attack from North Korea on the United States homeland. My evidence is simple, the hack involved computers and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has at least four computers that we know of, so clearly they were the culprit. Duh.

garion333 wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Oh god, we're going to war so this guy can continue to hide his kinks.

Just to be clear:

Spoiler:

You know that's a satire site, right?

Ya?