2015 Pile thread - 12 month plan

Should have checked for new posts immediately before posting. Oops.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

So I’m paring that list down to what I think would be considered essentials. I’m trying to avoid just picking my favorite games or the games that have the biggest nostalgia pull for genre fans. I’m trying to pick a small selection of games that would hit all across the genre and its major franchises.

These aren’t listed in any particular order.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey—This is listed first, but it’s the last pick I settled on. Strange Journey is, full disclosure, my favorite game ever. But it’s also a wonderful handheld game that would give you a taste for what mainline Shin Megami Tensei games are all about while also giving you a taste for Japanese first-person dungeon crawlers.
If you don’t like it:

  • CullEtrian Odyssey, Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers, Persona Q, [i]Persona 1[i], Persona 2
  • Try insteadShin Megami Tensei IV or Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer’s Call. If you don’t like either of those, cull the rest of your SMT games.

Final Fantasy IX—If there’s any selection I make that’s going to generate some pushback, it’ll be this one. Final Fantasy VI and Final Fantasy VII are beloved by a generation of gamers, yes, but it’s Final Fantasy IX that encapsulates everything the series was and wanted to be. If you don’t believe me, ask the creator of the series, Hironobu Sakaguchi, who said that IX was his favorite of the series and best captured what they’d been trying to do all along.
If you don’t like it:

  • CullFinal Fantasy IX was very representative of the PSOne era of JRPGs. If you really don’t like it, I’d suggest culling Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, Trails in the Sky, Radiant Historia, and more.
  • Try insteadFinal Fantasy VI. If you don’t like that either, cull the rest of the Final Fantasy games before XII, Bravely Default, EarthBound, Chrono Trigger, and anything that smells like a 16-bit game.

Tales of Xillia—I don’t like the Tales of games. I make a yearly effort to play one, and we never get along. But over the course of the last few years I’ve watched fans of the series shift up this rankings and recommendations to put Xillia at the top of the heap. It has a strong story, a good real-time battle system, and beautiful art. (As a bonus, the combat is very similar to Star Ocean. This game can serve as a sampler of sorts for both series.)
If you don’t like it:

  • CullTales of Xillia 2
  • Try insteadTales of Symphonia. If you don’t like that, cull the rest of the Tales of games and the Star Ocean games.

Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth—One of the wonderful things about the JRPG genre is that it allows for a wide variety of gameplay styles and systems to exist under the same umbrella. You have a number of off-beat games in your list that have combat systems off the beaten path, but none of them are as widely loved as Valkyrie Profile. I haven’t played this particular entry. I’ve chosen it based on its reputation. But I have played another game in the series, and there really isn’t anything else quite like it.
If you don’t like it:

  • Cull—The rest of the Valkyrie Profile games.
  • Try instead—Any of the other JRPGs with weird battle systems like The World Ends With You or Radiant Historia.

Paper Mario and the Thousand-Year Door—Anyone who tells you that the Paper Mario games aren’t JRPGs is being an exclusionist dunderhead. These are good JRPGs with a unique take on turn-based combat. (You know all the love given to Costume Quest and South Park: Stick of Truth? They both owe a huge debt to Paper Mario.) The original N64 release, Paper Mario, is a reasonable substitute here, but The Thousand-Year Door gives a more complete sense of what fans love about the series.
If you don’t like it:

  • CullPaper Mario, Paper Mario: Sticker Star.
  • Try insteadSuper Paper Mario. Mario & Luigi: Bowser’s Inside Story, and if you don’t like that one, cull the other Mario & Luigi games.

Fire Emblem: Awakening—I’m choosing this one as something of a stand-in for all the traditional tactical RPGs in your list. This is may be the most accessible TRPG made in the last few years, and it’s even easier to play since it’s on a handheld that you can put into sleep mode.
If you don’t like it:

  • Try insteadFinal Fantasy Tactics. If you don’t like that, cull Jeanne D’Arc, Suikoden Tactics, and any other SRPGs.

Valkyria Chronicles—This is another one that I haven’t played, but when it released it was a ground-breaking reinvention of tactical RPGs. Replacing grids and regimented turns with a fluid, open model of combat, Valkyria Chronicles has left a footprint in the genre that will have an effect for years to come.
If you don’t like it:

  • Try insteadResonance of Fate

That still leaves a lot of your list untouched, but I don’t want to run through everything. I mean, you bought this stuff for a reason.

And if your question was what would I play on there that I haven't played before, I'd dig in to Lucifer's Call and the Digital Devil Saga games first, because I'm a shameless Megaten fan. Then in no particular order, Suikoden II, Lightning Returns, Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth, Atelier Ayesha, Ys, Vagrant Story, and Oreshika. :)

Thank you so much, this looks great. I shall swap over to my tablet and read it over my bedtime drink.

@frogbeastegg: If you've gotten into some of these games (FFVI, PP:TYD, etc), and you were satiated, I wouldn't worry about going back to them. Beating them shouldn't be the objective - enjoying them should.

Knowing what you said above, I'd jettison FFVI and PP:TYD from your "games to play" list, pack them up, and set them on a shelf somewhere.

What games on your list haven't you spent time with?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

...or you become considerably more aggressive with what you cull and when you cull it...

And then we run into the problem where culling gets really weird with digital platforms. You more have to cull it from your mind than actually get rid of it, which I think is difficult for a lot of us...

Or maybe I'm just projecting and no one else does any of that. :P

I totally do this, and this thread has helped a lot with it, spurring me to make an actual list and do some math and accept that it was not physically possible to play everything so I'd better get to culling. (And dial down the buying. For a while I had a "one in, (at least) one out" rule.)

This is where Backloggery (or some other actual written list) helps, especially with digital: cull means sell it (if I can) and remove from the list. It's not there when I look at Backloggery to decide what to play. Sense of relief, less time spent agonizing over what to play.

frogbeastegg wrote:

I hadn't made a list. I have now.

Life's too short and piles are too long for playing mediocre games... scratch that, for playing good games, even. If it isn't fantastic, dump it. And lose the sense of obligation to classics or whatever.

My subjective advice: No matter how good they are, I'd lose all the PS1 (blasphemy!) and GameCube games due to age and difficulty to set up, respectively, no matter how much I liked some of them. The later Suikoden games weren't well liked for the most part; Xenoblade Chronicles is just plain too long; Earthbound was "of a time" and has not aged well; Ni No Kuni was good-not-great, The Last Story was very-good-not-great; Trails In the Sky ends on a cliffhanger and it will be a while before (if!) we get the sequel.

As far as perspective goes, I've played about 25 games on your list, but would tell you to cut all but three of them. (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant Of the Plume; Resonance Of Fate; and The World Ends With You) I enjoyed several others but this is the time to make cuts with brutality... I could list a dozen or so games, and tell you why I absolutely loved them but would cut them anyway; but I think you get the point.

frogbeastegg wrote:

Right. Wild Arms gets trimmed. I'd like to play some of them though. The best game or best two games? The setting is so unusual and it's a well-loved series. I remember hearing that one of them has a particularly good female protagonist. The third?

I would say prioritize the third. I never complete the second or third, the second because I lost interest and the third because even in high school games got stacked onto the pile. One of my greater regrets was trading Wild Arms 3 in for... reasons? Because I gave my brother my PS2 maybe and went Xbox + GameCube? I dunno, but I regret it as there is no way at the moment for me to go back and replay it.

So having not played a Wild Arms after, the best I can say is try Wild Arms 3 if you want. The combat is still pretty basic stuff, but the real strength of Wild Arms is in dungeon design, and Wild Arms 3 was a really good execution on this. Each dungeon is split between rooms with encounters and rooms with puzzles. If you have enough of a type of gem you can actually skip random encounters and focus purely on puzzles. With or without random encounters, dungeons never took more than 15-20 minutes, really, which meant the overall pacing of the game was quick and snappy.

While there's a risk of skipping too many random encounters, you can always do the most enjoyable grind ever when you get the battleship. While plenty of RPG's give you vehicles and even have battles on them, most of the time you just fight on the deck (lookin' at you, Final Fantasy). In Wild Arms 3 each party member takes a part of the ship and fights huge monsters. You harpoon it, shoot it, steer the ship and repair it. These monsters give a lot of experience for what is a very different and very enjoyable combat system unique to the game, so if you want you can basically spend most of your combat time there to level up at a decent pace and then just skip most of the random encounters on land or in dungeons.

Looking at a FAQ I ...think I was close to halfway through the game when something new released and stole my attention.

As you've played through FF7, I think you'd be fine with the combat to Wild Arms 3. And yes, it has a female protagonist. Honestly, I cannot recall many details of the different characters at the time aside from white-haired Jet appealing to high school me, which could mean the character was a complete douche nozzle. Then again, I hated Squall, so maybe not. I dunno. It was ...about half of my life ago (!).

Yes, culling parts of franchises seems like a good way to experience as many different classic series as possible without having an 81 game tier I hit-list.

Tales could use individual prioritising. It's in a weird place for me as a series. For years I wanted to play them and they rarely came out here. That changed in the last few years. We now get every single entry, reliably and without delay. Abyss, which I wanted for so many years, was re-released on the 3DS, and Hearts landed on the vita. I went from no Tales to a shelf of them faster than I could keep up!

Perhaps with Tales I should look at choosing two to priotise? I think I'll want to play all of them, however the rest can move to tier II.

If you prioritize two, I agree with Clock in that Symphonia and Xillia would be the two you prioritize.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth—One of the wonderful things about the JRPG genre is that it allows for a wide variety of gameplay styles and systems to exist under the same umbrella. You have a number of off-beat games in your list that have combat systems off the beaten path, but none of them are as widely loved as Valkyrie Profile. I haven’t played this particular entry. I’ve chosen it based on its reputation. But I have played another game in the series, and there really isn’t anything else quite like it.
If you don’t like it:

  • Cull—The rest of the Valkyrie Profile games.

This is the only one I'll disagree with Clock on, but only because Covenant of the Plume on DS is an SRPG, completely different from the rest of the franchise. It's technically short, less than 20 hours, but how long it takes you also depends on your play style. It's intended to be replayed over and over (none of the playthroughs should be 20 hours, by the way), where you have to sacrifice members of your team to collect abilities that carry over each New Game + until you can manage a playthrough where all members of your party survive and you get the good ending.

I, on the other hand, kept restarting the game over and over until I found a story route that allowed me to get the good ending on the first try... wait, sorry, second try? I did get one of the bad endings, I recall, so...yeah, I think second playthrough I brute forced it.

So either you can accept the harrowing experience they intended artistically, or you can say "f*ck it" and struggle to game the system.

...I should play it again, as it is perfect front-page fodder.

@frogbeastegg: I think Clocky, ccess, and Demyx hit most of the big points, but I'll chime in with some thoughts. In general your situation isn't too dissimilar from my own list of RPGs, and like me you've got a lot of games that are over a decade old. I've personally found it very helpful in general to set an age limit on my pile in order to focus on newer titles and just letting the old stuff go. My rule of thumb right now is whatever can be played on what's hooked up to the TV or nothing older than two generations ago (in order to stop me from digging out my GBA or DS on a regular basis). It's not a hard and fast rule, but it means I'm more likely to prioritize something like Xenoblade Chronicles over finally getting around to finishing up Ogre Battle (it'll happen one of these days, I swear).

Final Fantasy IV-IX: Cull. As much as it pains me to say this (Final Fantasy is what got me into JRPGs in the first place even though I've very much "fallen off the wagon" since the PS1 days) but if you're not grokking VI because of the repetitive and simple combat you're going to have similar problems with the rest of the ATB based games. And if you have issues with how long the animations take in Chrono Trigger you're not going to have a good experience with SNES/PS1 era FF in general.

Chrono Trigger: Cull. It sounds like you're about to bounce off this anyways, although you might want to check the options menu to see if there's an option to remember what you last selected for each character's action in combat. That might work better for your playstyle.

Atelier: Keep? I haven't played these (yet) but my impression is that they're very similar to each other. I would keep one but ask someone like Minarchist for an entry point or just take the most recent one and start there. Jettison the rest if it doesn't click and de-prioritize the rest if it does.

Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter: Cull. I heard they tried to do something interesting with this but it wasn't well received by fans of the series or reviewers. At best it's a curio for the collection.

Radiant Historia: Cull. People were excited for this because they expected it to be Chrono Trigger-y. If I remember right from reviews, it wasn't. Apparently it's not a bad game, but probably not something you need to prioritize either.

Earthbound: Cull. I love Earthbound, but you've got better things to play on the list. It might fit your style of gaming since you can avoid combat, it'll auto-win a combat if you're significantly more powerful than the opponent, and it has a rudimentary auto-battle option, so maybe something to come back to later?

Wild Arms/Shadow Hearts: Cull. Haven't played them personally but both franchises strike me as 2nd tier and therefore lower priority.

Suikoden: Keep whichever one is the good one (II?), cull the rest.

Kingdom Hearts: What are your feelings on the franchise in general assuming you've played the first one or the first HD Remix set?

TWEWY: Definitely come back to this if you can. The game front-loads a lot of the mechanics which makes it harder to get into than most. But it's a fun ride if you're willing to meet it at least half-way.

SMT: Raidou - Clocky didn't cover these in her excellent SMT recommendations. These are the action-RPGs for the franchise. I've not played them myself, but they're average as far as action-RPGs go I hear. Depending on what you like about Kingdom Hearts, I'd consider culling or putting these as a lower priority. I think the second one is the better of the two?

SMT: Devil Survivor - Not played them myself, but these are probably a cull if you don't care for any of the SRPGs Clocky recommended even if you like SMT.

frogbeastegg wrote:

I don't know if my Gamecube will work on my current TV. Had to replace my TV last year and this one doesn't have an s-video socket. I think I'd have to use composite cables. [wince]

Gamecube has support for component cables but you had to buy them direct from Nintendo. Unfortunately, they're not the same as the ones used by the Wii. You might be able to find a set for sale online? Alternatively, maybe look into setting up Dolphin on a PC?

You fine folks lost me when you started going on about JRPGs, but I'm glad Frogbeastegg is getting the support and help this thread is known for!

Thank you so much for all of the suggestions. I'm amazed at how many you've come up with between you.

I've updated the list and put it in spoiler tags again at the bottom of the post. Games with lines through them are relegated to tier II, which means they will probably never get played unless I love the chosen representative of their series. I'm still considering some games. I have also marked which games I have played some of and added brief notes to a bunch of them.

37 games trimmed so far! That leaves 58, or 13 weeks of gaming if I play 24 hours a day. Progress.

Sometimes I find I'm not in the right mood for what a game offers. In those cases I stop playing and plan to give it a second chance later. Often this works. To give an example with a game which everyone here will know quite well, FFXIII. When I first played it I wanted a plot game; I bailed in chapter 5. Several years later I approached it as a mechanics game and liked it quite a bit. I finished it and did a lot of the optional stuff, hence the two sequels on my pile. Sometimes I find that I still don't like a game and then it gets cut. I don't mind things like easy battle systems when I'm in the right mood for them, so something like FFVI may well fare better on another attempt. At the time I wanted something more challenging. The games where I don't think I'll change my mind get sold.

Backwards compatibility, multi-compatibility, and eshop downloads provide me with easy access to everything on the list excepting the Gamecube. I've decided that the Gamecube is getting cut. As much as I want to play my last few games, it doesn't seem worth the cost and hassle of locating a component cable. My dearly beloved 'cube can continue to sit in retirement and I will stop thinking about it. The PS1 games are all downloads from PSN. Anything disc-only got cut long ago.

On FF specifically, I finished and very much liked FFVII when I played the PC release back whenever that was new. I did everything. It's a flawed game in some areas but its sheer personality and whole-heartedness capture me every time. I've started to replay the PS1 version several times since and, while I still generally like the game, I find the PAL version intolerable because it runs 20% slower than PC and NSTC. If it ran at full speed I'd be happy to replay the whole thing. I've also played FFVIII right to the very end twice, one on PC back in ye day and once on PS2. It's another flawed game. I like to break the battle system by carding and junctioning advanced magic, then putting enc-none on to disable random battles for most of the game. The music and background design get me every time. The plot is a bit of a hot mess and many of the characters under-developed, but it definitely has its moments and there's material for thought buried in the occasionally wonky execution. These two set my expectation of FF as a series which is stunningly pretty, expansive, ever-changing, a little bit crazy, always flawed in some respect, and one heck of a ride if I can make the time. What I played of IX was good. Vivi's storyline was the main appeal; that airship scene! I got stuck in the Ice Cave thanks to a stupid mistake.

Kingdom Hearts. I finished the original back in the day. It's the game which I got my PS2 for. I finished the HD version when that came out and found that I still liked it, clunky as the combat can be and nonsensical as the story becomes. What's not to like about Donald Duck setting my enemies on fire? The crossover stuff is reasonably neat due to the crazy factor. I've had KH2 on my pile for an entire hardware generation and upgraded to the HD version last year. I swiftly abandoned Birth by Sleep on the PSP due to the hand-breaking controls. It's listed because the PS3 version fixes the controls and I hear it's good. The GBA and DS games all sound unappealing so I skipped them.

Suikodens I, II, III and V will each get time to prove themselves. They're games which I have wanted to play for so long I can't let them go untried, and the politics-based plots sound like my cup of tea. I did like what I played of V, and didn't mind IV all that much as a flawed B list game. It's too flawed to give time to now. Tactics is IV's other half so out that goes.

RE classic and slow combat, I think the critical part of the issue is that after a certain point they insist on me paying attention to all the battles. For trash battles in games like FFVII I can mash X to spam basic attacks and win battles while I read a book. In games like Persona 3 I can't do that but I am making tactical decisions in battles which play out slightly differently each time. In games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger I found myself spamming the same moves in samey battles repeatedly, with no need to pay attention except for the requirement to keep navigating the UI. Sometimes I'm ok with that. Others I have zero patience for it.

Spoiler:

A * means that I started a game and stopped playing it for no fault of its own, e.g. lack of time.

A ^ means I started a game and put it aside because I was not enjoying it at that time but think I will when in a more suitable mood

Some games have both because that better fits what happened. I've added a brief note to some games to help indicate my tastes.

SMT: Digital Devil Saga 1 (playing currently)
SMT: Digital Devil Saga 2
SMT IV * (too many other games competing; liked it on the whole)
SMT: Soul Hackers *
SMT: Lucifer's Call/Nocturne * (only played the first couple of hours as a taste test, liked it)
SMT: Strange Journey
SMT: Devil Survivor 1 Overclocked
SMT: Devil Survivor 2 (I'll wait for Record Breaker)
SMT: Raidou Kunzunoha 1
SMT: Raidou Kunzunoha 2
Persona Q * (Christmas games gift rush)
Persona 1
Persona 2: Innocent Sin
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment

Suikoden I
Suikoden II
Suikoden III
Suikoden IV *^
Suikoden Tactics
Suikoden V *

Dragon Quest IV * (all 3 DS DQ games are casualties of work getting busy)
Dragon Quest V *
Dragon Quest VI *
Dragon Quest IX * (other games came along)

Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI ^
Final Fantasy VIII *^ (got to the end twice, never done the final dungeon for some reason)
Final Fantasy IX ^* (I got stuck in the ice cave due to bad decisions)
Final Fantasy X * (that funeral scene near the start was not well timed for me)
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XII (I'll keep hoping for a HD version ...)
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Final Fantasy XIII: Lightning Returns
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy Type 0 HD
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core
Final Fantasy XIV (Trial deleted unplayed, much sadness as I'm quite sure I'd love the gameplay and world.)

Tales of Symphonia HD * (I played the 'Cube version, had exams, always wanted to go back)
Tales of the Abyss * (still making my mind up on this one; I liked what I played and it's portable)
Tales of Vesperia
Tales of Graces f
Tales of Xilia
Tales of Xilia II
Tales of Hearts

Wild Arms 1
Wild Arms 2
Wild Arms 3
Wild Arms 4 *^
Wild Arms 5

Star Ocean I: First Departure (playing currently)
Star Ocean II: Second Evolution
Star Ocean III ^

Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth *^
Valkyrie Profile: Silmeria
Valkyrie Profile: Crimson Plume

Shadow Hearts * (got to the end, can't remember what happened to stop me finishing. Very unique game with an appealing setting)
Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Shadow Hearts: From the New World (this is only loosely related to the first two, so a safe cut)

Paper Mario *
Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door *
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time *
Paper Mario: Sticker Star
Super Paper Mario

Etrian Odyssey: Untold *
Etrian Odyssey IV *
Etrian Odyssey III *

Atelier Rorona *^ (I was too busy to give it the attention I needed to)
Atelier Totori
Atelier Meruru
Atelier Ayesha (I've picked the start of each trilogy; I can continue whichever trilogy I like best)
Atelier Escher & Logy
Atelier Shallie

Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter ^ (this one is in every way fascinating to me now I can accept the idea of restarting as a mechanic)
Fire Emblem: Awakening *
Xenoblade Chronicles (I suspect I'll pass in favour of the sequel)
The Last Story * (my save got lost! Twice! Liked it a lot. Makes a change to have a fully British voice cast too.)
Resonance of Fate
The World Ends With You ^
Radiant Historia
Chrono Trigger (?) ^ (pondering ...)
Earthbound
Skies of Arcadia: Legends ^
Kingdom Hearts 2.5 HD Remix
Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep HD
Nier
Ni No Kuni * (I like what I played of this one. It got sidelined when I replaced my broken fattie PS3 with a slim)
Bravely Default *
Ys: Memories of Celceta
Trails in the Sky
Jeanne d'Arc *
Vagrant Story ^* (so complicated I didn't have time to figure it out)
Oreshika
Valkyria Chronicles

Seeing that you stopped playing The Last Story only because your save got lost has me thinking you should give that another go. It's short, around the 20 hour mark I believe, and I really like it's take on a cover-based action-RPG myself.

I believe back when we spoke about Final Fantasy I hadn't replayed IX yet, and at the time you were thinking of going at it chronologically? In which case I believe my recommendations were to do either IV or X and skip VI (it will require grinding at parts, and considering your list.... it's a great story to experience, but not when you have that much available). However, after having replayed IX and read some of Clock's thoughts, I'd swap IV for IX. I can't explain to you why VII's combat makes me reminisce over IV, the two seem similar in my head (possibly because even when I was in middle school I recognized the combat in VI as being less fun), but in regards to mechanics and story IX would probably be a better fit. The only problem is each battle takes a bit of time to go through its opening animations.

In regards to Chrono Trigger, and any ATB system really, I second Shop's recommendation on going into the config and setting the cursor to remember your last command (does that carry over battle to battle, though? I'm trying to recall, it's been a while since I last played it). That, and turn up the battle speed. However, speaking honestly, I'd still recommend something like The Last Story over any of these older games. They're classics, yeah, but the funny thing about classics is that, even "timeless" films like Citizen Kane and Psycho have plenty of folks that don't get it, or cannot get over how editing and special effects techniques have changed since back in the day. Same goes for gaming in a lot of ways.

I'd honestly say prioritize games you had started but had to give up on for whatever reason, and cull games that you stopped playing because you weren't so into them (or at least drop them to the bottom of the barrel).

Ah, I forgot you can adjust the battle speed in the ATB games. Definitely do that if you find the combat boring or slow. Seriously, I did it with IV DS and it's a great way to nudge the difficulty and require you to pay more attention to what's going on. I think starting with FFV you can also set the ATB mode to "Active" which means the game doesn't wait for you to make a choice on the menu before having enemies make their moves.

VI's combat is probably more boring because a lot of the character abilities (ie. Edgar's tools and Sabin's blitzes) are OP so it's usually more efficient to just spam those instead of normal attacks or magic. The combat in VII/VIII were reactionary decisions that replaced the unique character abilities with limit breaks. IX restores the character abilities but they're a lot more balanced that time around, and you still have limit breaks in the form of Trance.

frogbeastegg wrote:

Kingdom Hearts. I finished the original back in the day. It's the game which I got my PS2 for. I finished the HD version when that came out and found that I still liked it, clunky as the combat can be and nonsensical as the story becomes. What's not to like about Donald Duck setting my enemies on fire? The crossover stuff is reasonably neat due to the crazy factor. I've had KH2 on my pile for an entire hardware generation and upgraded to the HD version last year. I swiftly abandoned Birth by Sleep on the PSP due to the hand-breaking controls. It's listed because the PS3 version fixes the controls and I hear it's good. The GBA and DS games all sound unappealing so I skipped them.

Gotcha, I wasn't sure if it was a case of "I've heard these are fun, so I put them on my list" or not. KH2 and BBS are probably the two best games in the franchise to date. You're not missing a whole lot by skipping the GBA and DS games (although the 3DS game is pretty decent).

frogbeastegg, you have Wii games on your list, so do you have a Wii or a Wii U? If you have a Wii, is it one of the models that has backward compatibility? That's how I ended up playing a number of GameCube games after my beloved little purple 'Cube got disconnected.

Heh, I was also going to suggest the Wii backwards compatibility for the GameCube games, but frogbeastegg seemed to be doing so well with the backlog list that I just didn't have the heart to put any of those games back onto it so soon!

But yes, if you have a backwards compatible Wii, then it is an option for the Gamecube games.

Well, it happened again. I culled a whole bunch of little games I got in bundles and had no real interest in. Had a true "I'm just not that into you" vibe.

The suggestion to use the Wii's backwards compatibility is an excellent idea. Unfortunately it wouldn't work due to a detail which I didn't mention as it didn't seem relevant: I have an American Gamecube and games. At the time it was a good decision, giving me cheaper games which ran better and arrived months earlier. When the Wii came out the decision bit me because of the region lock. PAL copies of Paper Mario: TTYD and Skies of Arcadia are semi-rare and costly

Regarding the ATB settings, good thought. I tried dialling Chrono Trigger up to a faster speed last night. It makes the bars charge faster and everything else plays out at the same rate. Makes it harder to control, and the barely-animated special and enemy moves all feel painfully slow. Chrono gets until 5 fights into the next area to stop requiring me to spam magic and specials, or off the pile it goes. I'm giving it that long as a lot of older JRPGs have a single irritating dungeon where your normal attacks barely cause damage and then the rest of the game returns to normal.

I'll start with FFIX as quite a few people have recommended. Then I'll work forwards and when I catch up to the current game I can hop back to FFVIII, FFVI and FFIV if I want to. I'd like to finish FFVIII as I do enjoy how crazy it is, but at the same time I've played it to near-completion twice and the other games are mostly new to me. The two older games go, reluctantly, to the very back of the list. I do think I have a reasonable chance of liking them but I guess the graphics and systems can't age much more than they already have whereas the newer stuff will become less shiny as the new console generation advances ;p

I had a nagging feeling of doubt, and yep, on checking I see that I got my Mario & Luigi games mixed up. I included Partners in Time in my list. That's the one which I didn't like (I couldn't cope with controlling 4 characters in that battle system, and I don't like the Mario babies) and sold years ago. It's Dream Team Bros on the 3DS which belongs in the list. I also forgot to include Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Does this corrected information change anyone's recommendation on that batch of games?

ccesarano wrote:

Seeing that you stopped playing The Last Story only because your save got lost has me thinking you should give that another go. It's short, around the 20 hour mark I believe, and I really like it's take on a cover-based action-RPG myself.

The Adventures of Syrenne and Creepy Eyepatch Kid are very close to the top of my list now. Enough time has passed for me to get over losing my save for a second time.

I believe back when we spoke about Final Fantasy I hadn't replayed IX yet, and at the time you were thinking of going at it chronologically? In which case I believe my recommendations were to do either IV or X and skip VI (it will require grinding at parts, and considering your list.... it's a great story to experience, but not when you have that much available). However, after having replayed IX and read some of Clock's thoughts, I'd swap IV for IX. I can't explain to you why VII's combat makes me reminisce over IV, the two seem similar in my head (possibly because even when I was in middle school I recognized the combat in VI as being less fun), but in regards to mechanics and story IX would probably be a better fit. The only problem is each battle takes a bit of time to go through its opening animations.

Yes, we settled on IV as I had already tried and permanently dropped I and II. III sounded too challenging in an unenjoyable way.

shoptroll wrote:

Gotcha, I wasn't sure if it was a case of "I've heard these are fun, so I put them on my list" or not. KH2 and BBS are probably the two best games in the franchise to date. You're not missing a whole lot by skipping the GBA and DS games (although the 3DS game is pretty decent).

I had trimmed BBS from the list. Good call? I could swap it for KH2, or bring it back and demote something else in its place. I intend to play KH3 when that arrives.

Got what is supposed to be a free afternoon today. Operative word: supposed [crosses fingers] The plan is to clear a good chunk of Digital Devil Saga. I aim for one portable and one non-portable RPG on the go at once, maximum, so once I've cleared that I can start another.

Despite not being able to play games these coming five weeks (and totally fine with that, family time!) I did do something that made the pile smaller. I did, as someone said in the steam sales thread, a control-z on my sales, except for Borderlands PS.
Slightly painful to watch all those great games for great deals vanish again. But from now on I will just buy whatever I want, as long as I play it right away.
FallOut4 is pre-ordered of course lol

I saw that Sparhawk. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Worst case scenario, you can still grab them in 6 months!!

frogbeastegg wrote:

Chrono gets until 5 fights into the next area to stop requiring me to spam magic and specials, or off the pile it goes. I'm giving it that long as a lot of older JRPGs have a single irritating dungeon where your normal attacks barely cause damage and then the rest of the game returns to normal.

Chrono has a dungeon like that, not sure if you're in it or not based on what little context you've provided so far.

It's Dream Team Bros on the 3DS which belongs in the list. I also forgot to include Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Does this corrected information change anyone's recommendation on that batch of games?

That shouldn't change the recommendations at all. Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story are the best in the franchise. If I recall correctly, Dream Team was pretty average although better than Partners In Time based on reviews.

I had trimmed BBS from the list. Good call? I could swap it for KH2, or bring it back and demote something else in its place. I intend to play KH3 when that arrives.

I wouldn't scrub BBS from the list. It's one of the best games in the franchise. Only real complaint is that you effectively have to play through the game 3 times and the story isn't deep enough enough to benefit from the "same story from multiple viewpoints" mechanism. So if you're pressed for time just play it once and come back to the other two characters later.

shoptroll wrote:
frogbeastegg wrote:

Chrono gets until 5 fights into the next area to stop requiring me to spam magic and specials, or off the pile it goes. I'm giving it that long as a lot of older JRPGs have a single irritating dungeon where your normal attacks barely cause damage and then the rest of the game returns to normal.

Chrono has a dungeon like that, not sure if you're in it or not based on what little context you've provided so far.

Chrono Trigger has several dungeons that urge you to rely on Techs and such, however. It's actually one of the reasons I've grown to love the game anew as an adult, as I was much more eager to save MP as a kid when playing these games. When you take into account how necessary lightning spells are in the prehistoric dungeons, how you need one of each element for fighting key foes in the Ocean Palace and Black Omen, and some of the other similar tricks for bosses and foes alike, I'd say she should just toss Chrono Trigger off the pile now and be done with it. None of the enemies are trash mobs, and if she has a completionist streak in her, then the first Dinosaur Cavern is going to frustrate her with waiting for Weevils to drill down in just the right spots to get whatever treasures are below (and having to possibly go through similar battles again).

Again, I actually love this about the game, but it sounds like Chrono Trigger will not be Frog's cup o' tea.

Right, I completely blanked on the Prehistoric age and its "gimmick". I was thinking she was at Heckran's cave, but I wasn't sure.

Completely agree it's probably best to just drop it at this point.

ccesarano wrote:

it sounds like Chrono Trigger will not be Frog's cup o' tea.

That's ok. People think I'm crazy because I don't enjoy Chrono Trigger. Glad people like it, but it's not for me.

I had a nagging feeling of doubt, and yep, on checking I see that I got my Mario & Luigi games mixed up. I included Partners in Time in my list. That's the one which I didn't like (I couldn't cope with controlling 4 characters in that battle system, and I don't like the Mario babies) and sold years ago. It's Dream Team Bros on the 3DS which belongs in the list. I also forgot to include Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. Does this corrected information change anyone's recommendation on that batch of games?

I liked Dream Team Bros. a lot more than Bowser's Inside Story, but I'm in the minority.

Of course, in general, I don't much like the Mario & Luigi games. I adore the Paper Mario series, but the central gimmick of the Mario & Luigi games—press B to control Mario and A to control Luigi—never really clicked with me. I was constantly pushing the wrong button for the character I was trying to control and getting hit by things it should have been easy to dodge.

I gave up on Bowser's Inside Story early on (my activity log says 5h 30m) but despite putting more time into Dream Team Bros. (13h 35m) I didn't finish it, either. I meant to go back to it and never did. They just don't excite me, so my personal opinion is to ignore them and play Paper Mario instead.

Just skip Paper Mario Sticker Star unless you want something more akin to a point & click adventure RPG hybrid.

shoptroll wrote:

Just skip Paper Mario Sticker Star

IMAGE(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcxpupjcMS1qks7xxo1_400.gif)

I actually kinda like Sticker Star, but I found it a bit frustrating in spots. It's also nothing like the original two games (which I haven't played yet) according to Demyx.

(stay perky)

Paper Mario Sticker Star was okay but it's really weak in the writing/charm department.

Paper Mario TTYD has it all: clever writing, awesome gameplay, creative scenery, wonderful soundtrack, lots of creative gameplay variations (one section is more like an adventure game, one section is a take on Pikmin, etc.).

Super Paper Mario is a little weak on the gameplay front but actually has a really cool story. It's also surprisingly bleak for a Mario game.

Original Paper Mario I really need to get around to finishing...

For me, the relatively sparse writing in Sticker Star was a feature, not a flaw. I liked where Super Paper Mario ended up, but they used way too many words to get there. The Mario & Luigi games have been similarly way too talky.

They're kind of built on giving each character one quirky character trait and then having them repeat it as often as possible. So Luigi is scared of everything, which means that any time anything happens at all, they take a moment to show Luigi being scared of it and passing out. Bowser is ambitious but incompetent, so here's a scene where he's gwa-ha-haing his way through a monologue while an underling tries to tell him that everything's gone to pot. Now, here's four more scenes of the same thing. And then there are the characters whose quirky traits are little more than catch phrases and funny accents.

It's hilarious if that kind of humor works for you. They define their characters well and write good jokes around them. It's a lot like sitcom writing in that way. It just doesn't work for me, and there's a lot of it to click through.

Talkiness in games for me is a feature and not a problem, so that's just a difference of taste

I don't expect highbrow humor from Mario games, I expect broad silliness. The Paper Mario series does a good job of that kind of humor.

Also, are you sure you're talking about Paper Mario here? Luigi scared of everything is Mario & Luigi's schtick. In Paper Mario TTYD Luigi is just a running gag, and the joke is that he has adventures similar to Mario's but fouls everything up. In Super Paper Mario... even talking about Luigi is spoilers but "scared of everything" isn't really what defines him there either.

Same thing with Bowser. He only shows up in a few side scenes in Paper Mario TTYD because he's not the main villain there, and he joins your party early in SPM, so I feel like you're talking about the Mario & Luigi characterization.

Fair enough. Those are more of the Mario & Luigi characterizations, but Super Paper Mario had its own share of running gag characters like Francis, the Sammer Bros., and Count Ble-heh-heh-eck himself. The two series certainly use the same style of humor even if they don't use the same jokes.

If you're gonna hate on Francis and Sammer Bros. I can't get behind you. Especially since those were only in one chapter each

If you're gonna hate on Francis and Sammer Bros. I can't get behind you. Especially since those were only in one chapter each

Endless chapter. ENDLESS.